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Old 02-04-2014, 10:51 AM   #26
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The OP is off base here. Not turning over the ball/getting turnovers is of course an issue. That is a key to any team winning or losing. Unfortunately we've given the ball away all year long and haven't taken it enough. We need to get better there. No doubt.

The real problem though is that we ran into a team that was deep on all three levels of defense but particularly against passing offenses. Because we were weak as hell running the ball, ie, finesse team, we played right into their hand. They never had to honor the run, felt they could win with 6 in the box at least and sure enough, they did. That allowed the defense to pin their ear back and tee off on us all game long. Maybe if Clady is healthy, it doesn't happen to the same extent but we don't have the capability to ground and pound when we need to, as to take the bite out of the pass rush. We need to incorporate more of a running presence into this lineup. Seattle is going to be knocking on the door next year. It's how the NFC West teams play. We need to be prepared for it starting now. Not only that, I'm tired of hearing about the weather in the playoffs. The best teams win when it matters most. Denver despite watered down stats is a one dimensional team on offense when it comes down to it, and Seattle dominated us as such.

Hopefully John Elway understands this front his days, i'm sure he does, and makes moves to eliminate this next year. I'd gladly take 35 TD's from Manning next year and have Montee Ball at 1200-1400 yds and 10-15 TD's.
We had 6 turnovers that game and were -6 in the playoffs as well as 0 for the season (thank god we played the raiders and Texans the last two games).

You cannot possibly think the Broncos didn't have a good enough team to compete with the seahawks- that's far from the truth. We had inept coaching that did not fix the turnover problem, turned down the music, and left the Broncos exposed to their greatest weakness - mistakes.

Even the jaguars were more competitive in Seattle. Having not enough talent is not even a good excuse, it's laughable.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:52 AM   #27
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... Because we were weak as hell running the ball, ie, finesse team, we played right into their hand. They never had to honor the run, felt they could win with 6 in the box at least and sure enough, they did. That allowed the defense to pin their ear back and tee off on us all game long. Maybe if Clady is healthy, it doesn't happen to the same extent but we don't have the capability to ground and pound when we need to, as to take the bite out of the pass rush. We need to incorporate more of a running presence into this lineup.
I heard Stink way something similar in a interview last week. He said one weakness this team has is that they can run the ball, but can't run the ball when they have to.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:54 AM   #28
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We had inept coaching that did not fix the turnover problem, turned down the music, and left the Broncos exposed to their greatest weakness - mistakes.
How would you suggest the coaches fix the "turnover problem"? You don't think Fox and his staff are aware of the importance of turnovers?
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:58 AM   #29
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We had 6 turnovers that game and were -6 in the playoffs as well as 0 for the season (thank god we played the raiders and Texans the last two games).

You cannot possibly think the Broncos didn't have a good enough team to compete with the seahawks- that's far from the truth. We had inept coaching that did not fix the turnover problem, turned down the music, and left the Broncos exposed to their greatest weakness - mistakes.

Even the jaguars were more competitive in Seattle. Having not enough talent is not even a good excuse, it's laughable.
I thought before and definitely after that they were the worst possible matchup against us. They are a big, physical team that can rush the passers. If the refs let them mug our WR's, and they did at points during the game, we are in trouble because Manning won't have all day to sit there.

If you have an offense that can RUN THE BALL, the defensive line can't just run at an arc towards the QB the rest of the game. They have to play with two hands on the offensive line, and read what the running back is doing. Seattle simply didn't have to do that. They ran at angles towards Manning and whenever we ran a silly draw or shotgun off tackle, their speed overmatched our backs at the POA and we got 2-4 yards, if we were lucky.

Denver needs to be able to run the ball next year. Not only against Seattle but for our well being in the playoffs. What if we would have gotten the weather for NY in the super bowl that the city saw the day after? Our passing game would have been shot anyways.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:00 AM   #30
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How would you suggest the coaches fix the "turnover problem"? You don't think Fox and his staff are aware of the importance of turnovers?
It's not my job to suggest how they fix it, they haven't done it and do not have the ability to do so.

BTW, what happened to your stat guys? They ate **** because 7 out of 8 voted for broncos and their link said "Offenses beat defenses".

Please go troll someone else you jag off.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:10 AM   #31
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BTW, what happened to your stat guys? They ate **** because 7 out of 8 voted for broncos and their link said "Offenses beat defenses".
Lol, you're confused (and wrong) as usual. Yes, 7 of the 8 PFF guys picked the Broncos. But the "stat guys" you were contesting, Advanced NFL Stats and Football Outsiders, both had the Seahawks rated as the best team in the league before the Super Bowl. I guess they know what they're doing!

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2014...s-week-17.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:21 AM   #32
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I thought before and definitely after that they were the worst possible matchup against us. They are a big, physical team that can rush the passers. If the refs let them mug our WR's, and they did at points during the game, we are in trouble because Manning won't have all day to sit there.

If you have an offense that can RUN THE BALL, the defensive line can't just run at an arc towards the QB the rest of the game. They have to play with two hands on the offensive line, and read what the running back is doing. Seattle simply didn't have to do that. They ran at angles towards Manning and whenever we ran a silly draw or shotgun off tackle, their speed overmatched our backs at the POA and we got 2-4 yards, if we were lucky.

Denver needs to be able to run the ball next year. Not only against Seattle but for our well being in the playoffs. What if we would have gotten the weather for NY in the super bowl that the city saw the day after? Our passing game would have been shot anyways.
My concern may be you can't really have a true running game out of the pistol with the immobile QB. You need Manning under center and allow the RB to pick and find the hole going forwards not sideways which is normally the direction they are recieveing the handoff in the pistol.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:31 AM   #33
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Ditch the pistol. Why run that if you don't have a athletic QB who can incorporate the read option into it? They need to adopt some true ACE/I-Formation/Strong/Weak formations under center. Pistol is a waste IMO with manning at QB.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:32 AM   #34
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Lol, you're confused (and wrong) as usual. Yes, 7 of the 8 PFF guys picked the Broncos. But the "stat guys" you were contesting, Advanced NFL Stats and Football Outsiders, both had the Seahawks rated as the best team in the league before the Super Bowl. I guess they know what they're doing!

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2014...s-week-17.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff
If they thought Seattle was the best then why did 7/8 pick the Broncos? You are contradicting yourself...

Your link earlier also said "offenses beat defenses" which is why 7/8 probably picked the Broncos.

So your links have been once again exposed.

Hey, my friends aunt told me her sister's husband has a psychic that picked Seattle...

This is as about as bad as your argument because you couldnt pass a high school stats course and think that some guy that throws all those big numbers at you make you think they are the truth despite they picked the other team.

Last edited by Coldcity76; 02-04-2014 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:35 AM   #35
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If they thought Seattle was the best then why did 7/8 pick the Broncos? You are contradicting yourself...
Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it? Go back and re-read my previous post, noodle it a bit, and then let me know if you still require further explanation.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:38 AM   #36
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Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it? Go back and re-read my previous post, noodle it a bit, and then let me know if you still require further explanation.
Yeah, your links contradict each other. One picks 7/8 for Broncos the other says seahawks. Which one said "offenses beat defenses" again too? And you said both were reliable. I'd rather use a coin...

I bet you didnt get that either since stats is not your strong suit and trolling is.

Got anything related to this tread?
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:38 AM   #37
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Lol, you're confused (and wrong) as usual. Yes, 7 of the 8 PFF guys picked the Broncos. But the "stat guys" you were contesting, Advanced NFL Stats and Football Outsiders, both had the Seahawks rated as the best team in the league before the Super Bowl. I guess they know what they're doing!

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2014...s-week-17.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff
I had seattle as the best team in the league back in August. Was quickly told how stupid I was in here and that Wilson would regress.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:40 AM   #38
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I had seattle as the best team in the league back in August. Was quickly told how stupid I was in here and that Wilson would regress.
Yeah, but the other link he always post said the Broncos will win. So good thing you ignored his links and used your own good judgement.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:42 AM   #39
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Yeah, your links contradict each other...
Two links that show the Seahawks ranked #1 contradict each other? You do know how to click a link, right?

And why do you keep mentioning the 7/8? That was from Pro Football Focus, which is an entirely different web site that does player rankings and eval.

No matter how long you drag out this argument you're still going to be wrong.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:45 AM   #40
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I had seattle as the best team in the league back in August. Was quickly told how stupid I was in here and that Wilson would regress.
Yes, this clown was among many that said advanced metrics are stupid and that Seattle was overrated and their offense sucked. They should just admit they were wrong and move on.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:46 AM   #41
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Two links that show the Seahawks ranked #1 contradict each other? You do know how to click a link, right?

And why do you keep mentioning the 7/8? That was from Pro Football Focus, which is an entirely different web site that does player rankings and eval.

No matter how long you drag out this argument you're still going to be wrong.
So you contradicted yourself because you have posted links showing the broncos were picked 7/8 by folks on one site. And then on another they said "offenses beat defenses". Yet, you ignore those now and pick two that support your view.

Hey, I only got stuff from links you posted, so please do not play dumb.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:49 AM   #42
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Yes, this clown was among many that said advanced metrics are stupid and that Seattle was overrated and their offense sucked. They should just admit they were wrong and move on.
No, you're the idiot because you cant even defend links to sites that claim they have metrics that predict football games. Yet, links you posted are contradicting each other, however, you have used them all to support your position.

Tony's favorite links

"Offenses beat defenses" e.g. broncos win
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011...-defenses.html

Seattle is best team
https://www.profootballfocus.com/

Below could be Tony's favorite next week since this is a stat site that we should all prey to like the others

7/8 pick broncos
https://www.profootballfocus.com/

Last edited by Coldcity76; 02-04-2014 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:29 PM   #43
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I have a new theory. But it's kind of an old theory, as far as Manning goes.

That's not to say turnovers aren't critical, but if you look at at least 2 of those turnover from the SB, they're also related to this problem...

Manning makes OL's look much better than they really are. Then an elite DL comes calling (often in the playoffs), and the illusion falls apart.

The 97-98 Broncos were the greatest offense we ever had (at least until now, arguably) But their signature was balance. Great running and great passing. Now obviously TD and Elway deserved a lot of credit. But the one common piece that made both work better than ever? The OL.

Enter Manning. He's made piss poor OL's look serviceable his whole career. We drank the kool-aid. We forgot our history. Our OL was decimated by injuries, no doubt. But as far as asking "What's our biggest hole for one more title run next year?"

It's OL play first and foremost. And hopefully some better luck with injuries.
We aren't drastically improving a good but not great o-line in one off-season, so that doesn't really do much good. And yes Clady would help, but I really don't think he's as great as many here do. He's good, nothing more.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:43 PM   #44
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We aren't drastically improving a good but not great o-line in one off-season, so that doesn't really do much good. And yes Clady would help, but I really don't think he's as great as many here do. He's good, nothing more.
Clady's not what he was in the beginning. And my fear about him keeps growing every time he gets hurt. Especially at his salary.

But I think he helps the run game. Which I think we need to get our OL back in the business of. Our goal should be top 10's in both rushing and passing. Best option we have for keeping better defenses honest for Manning. We gave it lip service when PFM first signed. But we bit on the huge production instead, and didn't worry about balance.

Same formula that's stranded Manning almost every January for the last decade+.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:14 PM   #45
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Yet, links you posted...
You are failing the internet. I didn't post those links. An article from 2011? Seriously? And you're attributing it to me?
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:18 PM   #46
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Clady's not what he was in the beginning. And my fear about him keeps growing every time he gets hurt. Especially at his salary.

But I think he helps the run game. Which I think we need to get our OL back in the business of. Our goal should be top 10's in both rushing and passing. Best option we have for keeping better defenses honest for Manning. We gave it lip service when PFM first signed. But we bit on the huge production instead, and didn't worry about balance.

Same formula that's stranded Manning almost every January for the last decade+.
We don't even have a fullback on the roster. We made a conscious decision to not be balanced, it didn't just happen.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:21 PM   #47
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You are failing the internet. I didn't post those links. An article from 2011? Seriously? And you're attributing it to me?
You're a football retard that uses links that contradict each other. The sad thing is you couldn't tell me why to pick one link over the other because you haven't the faintest clue about how numbers work. Just whatever suits your POV at the time and your troll mood.
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