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Old 02-04-2014, 08:17 AM   #1
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Default Fixing the Broncos: It's all about turnovers

I really thought the broncos fixed this towards the end of the year. But what we saw on Sunday was a massive revisit of the one real weakness we all worried about this year and last year. And, unfortunately, the Seahawks were one of the best at making turnovers happen. The Broncos had a poor turnover margin at 0 as you just do not see it that low for good teams. The Seahawks were +20. It's not the defense or offense, it's turnovers!

So, how do the Broncos fix this? The massive turnovers that teams get like the Seahawks and 49ers are the reason for these teams success. And it is also the reason for the Broncos failure. Do not get fooled about needing a great defense as the one thing nobody talked about during the super bowl is how the turnover gap between the two teams would play out. Turnovers not only add possessions and take them away, they also provide momentum. And we saw how that played out Sunday.

There are not too many stats that can directly be linked to coaching, but one of them has to be the turnover margin. The other is likely the ability for the coach to win challenges. Thus I believe the solution for the Broncos being a poorly prepared team is to fix the coaching. And this starts with John Fox.

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Old 02-04-2014, 08:26 AM   #2
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and as much as we and millions of others love Fox U R INDEED 100% RIGHT...football is not a nice sport and he is just to nice. hes to 1 dimensional...he doesn't either know how or is to scared to adjust his plan...look at what just happened...challenges he makes are crazy more times then not...the ones he should have made he lets go....I just as much as he is loved well ......
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:28 AM   #3
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I have a new theory. But it's kind of an old theory, as far as Manning goes.

That's not to say turnovers aren't critical, but if you look at at least 2 of those turnover from the SB, they're also related to this problem...

Manning makes OL's look much better than they really are. Then an elite DL comes calling (often in the playoffs), and the illusion falls apart.

The 97-98 Broncos were the greatest offense we ever had (at least until now, arguably) But their signature was balance. Great running and great passing. Now obviously TD and Elway deserved a lot of credit. But the one common piece that made both work better than ever? The OL.

Enter Manning. He's made piss poor OL's look serviceable his whole career. We drank the kool-aid. We forgot our history. Our OL was decimated by injuries, no doubt. But as far as asking "What's our biggest hole for one more title run next year?"

It's OL play first and foremost. And hopefully some better luck with injuries.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:30 AM   #4
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Did not force one turnover in three playoff games.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:32 AM   #5
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Did not force one turnover in three playoff games.
This is an important point. But you're not going to win titles giving up 4 turnovers. Or effectively 5 if you count the safety.

If you're halfway evenly matched or worse... which is more likely than not in the title rounds, 5 turnovers is a recipe for a blowout.

Which is what we obviously just watched.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:35 AM   #6
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Did not force one turnover in three playoff games.
According to NFL.com the Broncos were -6 in the playoffs...
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:36 AM   #7
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This is an important point. But you're not going to win titles giving up 4 turnovers. Or effectively 5 if you count the safety.

If you're halfway evenly matched or worse... which is more likely than not in the title rounds, 5 turnovers is a recipe for a blowout.

Which is what we obviously just watched.
6 if you count the turnover on downs and the safety
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:37 AM   #8
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and as much as we and millions of others love Fox U R INDEED 100% RIGHT...football is not a nice sport and he is just to nice. hes to 1 dimensional...he doesn't either know how or is to scared to adjust his plan...look at what just happened...challenges he makes are crazy more times then not...the ones he should have made he lets go....I just as much as he is loved well ......
Yup, and even if we think that Fox can become more hardcore on his players next year we would be fooled as he has a medical condition that would inhibit the very behavior of being an "in-your-face" coach.

John Fox is a nice guy no doubt. But a tough coach he is not.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:54 AM   #9
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Yup, and even if we think that Fox can become more hardcore on his players next year we would be fooled as he has a medical condition that would inhibit the very behavior of being an "in-your-face" coach.

John Fox is a nice guy no doubt. But a tough coach he is not.
that's interesting that you brought that up... again I was watchingElway interviews which I do a lot...and he said which I found myself saying hmm...the normal health stuff ya know how that goes but then he said we will see whats best for him and the team all the way around. this is the thing he is dealing yes Fox lead us 3 divison titles BUT that's not what this is about..if nothing else keep fox but not as the hc ...again Elway I have heard Elway say he is trying to help Peyton win the championships he came here to do and the NFL IS A HERE AND NOW LEAGUE
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:54 AM   #10
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Yup, and even if we think that Fox can become more hardcore on his players next year we would be fooled as he has a medical condition that would inhibit the very behavior of being an "in-your-face" coach.

John Fox is a nice guy no doubt. But a tough coach he is not.
I think most of us agree on this. But why does Del Rio get a pass?? He is the DC! He has to breathe fire into his players.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:06 AM   #11
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I think most of us agree on this. But why does Del Rio get a pass?? He is the DC! He has to breathe fire into his players.
Did a great job against SD and NE.

This game was a cluster. The D was the one bright spot. Responsible for 6 of the first 29 points.

But we need to force more turnovers, period.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:08 AM   #12
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I think most of us agree on this. But why does Del Rio get a pass?? He is the DC! He has to breathe fire into his players.
not such much a pass but I liked the way he coached when Fox was out. this is what I noticed that was missing from Del RIO as the HC for the 3 games because he was the sub coach he to some degree knew that this was fox s team and he was afraid to step on anybodies toes...take that away and we got something
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:18 AM   #13
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Our D is solid, so I don't think there's as much work to be done (but there *is* work to be done), so you're right about it being all about TOs. We need Von to create havoc, we need Q Smith/Mcray to develop, and we desperately need help at both the S positions. Need a true MLB.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:21 AM   #14
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Our D is solid, so I don't think there's as much work to be done (but there *is* work to be done), so you're right about it being all about TOs. We need Von to create havoc, we need Q Smith/Mcray to develop, and we desperately need help at both the S positions. Need a true MLB.
I so agree with that I have been trolling the NFL pages to find one... I don't enough about the players to know whos who..but the bigger the better
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #15
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I have a new theory. But it's kind of an old theory, as far as Manning goes.

That's not to say turnovers aren't critical, but if you look at at least 2 of those turnover from the SB, they're also related to this problem...

Manning makes OL's look much better than they really are. Then an elite DL comes calling (often in the playoffs), and the illusion falls apart.

The 97-98 Broncos were the greatest offense we ever had (at least until now, arguably) But their signature was balance. Great running and great passing. Now obviously TD and Elway deserved a lot of credit. But the one common piece that made both work better than ever? The OL.

Enter Manning. He's made piss poor OL's look serviceable his whole career. We drank the kool-aid. We forgot our history. Our OL was decimated by injuries, no doubt. But as far as asking "What's our biggest hole for one more title run next year?"

It's OL play first and foremost. And hopefully some better luck with injuries.
Sir you hit the nail right on the head! If Clady plays Manning doesn't throw one of those INT's. Bye Bye Orlando Franklin, has to go.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:59 AM   #16
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I think most of us agree on this. But why does Del Rio get a pass?? He is the DC! He has to breathe fire into his players.
Because the cupboard was bare months ago and we did well with nothing.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:00 AM   #17
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Sir you hit the nail right on the head! If Clady plays Manning doesn't throw one of those INT's. Bye Bye Orlando Franklin, has to go.
That's like saying because we get Von Miller back we don't need Vickerson. They don't play the same position
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:02 AM   #18
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That's like saying because we get Von Miller back we don't need Vickerson. They don't play the same position
that's what I was thinking...clady adds that meat the protection we have been missing
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:38 AM   #19
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Sir you hit the nail right on the head! If Clady plays Manning doesn't throw one of those INT's. Bye Bye Orlando Franklin, has to go.
He has to go inside to guard. I think he would kill it there.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #20
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Fixing the Broncos: Show up on game day

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Old 02-04-2014, 10:50 AM   #21
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Sir you hit the nail right on the head! If Clady plays Manning doesn't throw one of those INT's. Bye Bye Orlando Franklin, has to go.
Really ? just a few weeks ago Orlando Franklin was ranked in the top 3 of Right Tackles in the NFL. Last season (2012) he Allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL among 16-game starting right tackles.

Just this game (SuperBowl) he played his worst game of his career, but that can be said of many players on the Broncos.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:05 AM   #22
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Really ? just a few weeks ago Orlando Franklin was ranked in the top 3 of Right Tackles in the NFL. Last season (2012) he Allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL among 16-game starting right tackles.

Just this game (SuperBowl) he played his worst game of his career, but that can be said of many players on the Broncos.
I'm not saying it's all on Franklin. But the "fewest sacks" stuff is a lot of what I'm talking about. Manning takes the fewest sacks in the league pretty much every damn year. And it's not because his OL has been the best in the league all those years. Or even good.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:17 AM   #23
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I have a new theory. But it's kind of an old theory, as far as Manning goes.

That's not to say turnovers aren't critical, but if you look at at least 2 of those turnover from the SB, they're also related to this problem...

Manning makes OL's look much better than they really are. Then an elite DL comes calling (often in the playoffs), and the illusion falls apart.
Great post, BB. I think you're 100% correct about this. And stats back it up. Manning's last season playing for the Colts, 2010, he was sacked 16 times. In 2011 Colts QB's were sacked 35 times. In 2012 Luck was sacked 41 times. Switching over to the Broncos, in 2011 Broncos QB's were sacked 42 times. In 2012 Manning was sacked 21 times. If that doesn't tell the story about Manning and O-lines, I don't know what does.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:46 AM   #24
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The OP is off base here. Not turning over the ball/getting turnovers is of course an issue. That is a key to any team winning or losing. Unfortunately we've given the ball away all year long and haven't taken it enough. We need to get better there. No doubt.

The real problem though is that we ran into a team that was deep on all three levels of defense but particularly against passing offenses. Because we were weak as hell running the ball, ie, finesse team, we played right into their hand. They never had to honor the run, felt they could win with 6 in the box at least and sure enough, they did. That allowed the defense to pin their ear back and tee off on us all game long. Maybe if Clady is healthy, it doesn't happen to the same extent but we don't have the capability to ground and pound when we need to, as to take the bite out of the pass rush. We need to incorporate more of a running presence into this lineup. Seattle is going to be knocking on the door next year. It's how the NFC West teams play. We need to be prepared for it starting now. Not only that, I'm tired of hearing about the weather in the playoffs. The best teams win when it matters most. Denver despite watered down stats is a one dimensional team on offense when it comes down to it, and Seattle dominated us as such.

Hopefully John Elway understands this front his days, i'm sure he does, and makes moves to eliminate this next year. I'd gladly take 35 TD's from Manning next year and have Montee Ball at 1200-1400 yds and 10-15 TD's.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:51 AM   #25
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This team didn't seem to generate many turnovers worth a hoot all season and haven't for quite some time.
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