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Old 01-22-2014, 11:56 PM   #1
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Default It's the best defense "this season" Vs. The best offense "of all time"

Long post, but it's good, I promise.

A lot has been made of how defense wins Championships and Denver's offense won't help as much as the Seattle Defense.

This article points out that number 1 defenses are 12-3 in SB games versus number one offenses which are only 10-8 - barely above .500.

But it's actually difficult to say because the sample size is small.

First of all, this is only the second time since the merger that the number one yardage offense faced off against the number one yardage defense. The last time that happened was when the Buccs played against the Raiders in 2002. The Buccs won handily, but circumstances were unique with the Raiders running the same offense that Gruden had installed Sapp and John Lynch new the calls at the line before the snap.

But I'm a scoring guy. Points win games, not yardage. So what about number 1 scoring offenses vs. Number one scoring defenses since the merger.


The bad news is the defense still has the edge at 3-1 all time. The good news is there is some reason for optimism when those games are broken down.

1978 Steelers over Cowboys 35-31

The Steel curtains were one of the greatest defenses of all time. They averaged just 12 points per game. Interestingly, the Steelers also had the 5th best scoring offense. The Cowboys were no scrubs either with the 3rd best scoring defense, though it was a fair distance away from the Steelers. The game was close and notoriously probably lost on a dropped TD pass to Jackie Smith on third down to bring the one of the greatest tight end's careers to somewhat disappointing end.

1984 49ers over Dolphins 38-16

This was miss-match, but not because of the Niners defense, which was the best in the league, but not world beating allowing 14 pts a game. It was that the Niners had the number 2 scoring offense against the Dolphins 19th ranked defense. The dolphins weren't playing defense well going into the postseason either allowing over 28 points per game their final 8 games of the year, including the postseason.

1989 49ers over Broncos 55-10 (BARF)

Re-examining this game is like opening an old wound. The bottom line is John Elway pulled an average offense, and team that didn't finish the season strong at all (1-3 in December) to the Super Bowl with an offense ranked 8th in points and 15th in yards. Denver's number 1 scoring defense alowed 14 points per game, which in the grand scheme of number one defenses, is pretty average. The Niners had the 3rd best defense to go along with their all-world offense. They were a 14-2 team against the 11-5 Broncos. The Broncos had no business playing in this game.

1990 Giants over Bills 20-19

At first glance this game is the most similar to the Broncos and Seattle game. The Bills had the number 1 scoring offense and the number 6 scoring defense. The Giants offense was ranked 15th in scoring and was playing with a backup most of the year. Their defense was allowing 13 points a game. This was a game the Bills looked to be the favorite in. Two words: Wide right. Scott Norwood goes down in Super Bowl infamy and the rest is history.

So what can we take from these games? Well not much. The sample size is small and you could argue two of the games turned on fluke plays: Smith dropping a pass in the endzone he almost always catches, and Bills kicker missing a field goal. That's two plays from the record of number 1 scoring offense against the number 1 scoring defense being in favor of the offense 3-1 or at least 2-2.

Now let's look at this matchup:

Seattle is allowing 14.4 points per game. That's actually the worst of the four previous teams. In the grand scheme of top defenses in the history of the NFL, it's below average.

On offense, the Seahawks are 17th in yardage and 8th in scoring. If you take away their defensive scores and just look at their field goals and offensive TD's they average 24 pts per game. That's a 10 point disparity. Not a bad way to win games for sure.

Conversely Denver has the number 1 scoring offense and is ranked a pretty poor 22nd in points. One would look at those numbers and think "Denver is totally boned." But there is more to look at.

If you look at how both teams have trended and things are trending in Denver's favor.

Over the last four games, including playoffs, the Seahawks have averaged 21 points a game on offense and allowed 14.5 points per game on defense.

During the same time period Denver has averaged 30 points per game (low compared to their season average) but has also averaged 15 points per game on defense. That's almost as good as the Seahawks. And the starters didn't play half of the Raiders game.

In the playoffs alone, Denver has more sacks and a better rushing defense as well.

The biggest thing that jumps out to me is Denver has the second greatest scoring offense in points per game in NFL history and the most points scored by an offense EVER. Conversely Seattle's defense is best in the league, but nothing close to "the best in history." In fact they aren't even in the top 20 of all time defenses.

The bottom line is the sample size of those other games is too small to see any kind of real trend. I will say there has never been this big of a discrepancy between the greatness of the number 1 vs number 1 offense and defense in the NFL. We're arguably the greatest offense ever against the best defense this season, but not even a top 20 defense of all time. Denver has been good against the Run all year, and been arguably better on defense in the playoffs than Seattle since they have faced better offenses.

I think this will be a good game, but I think if Denver wins it will be because Russell Wilson can't get help from Lynch and Denver makes him throw from the pocket. There are obviously scenarios where Seattle can win, but I think Denver has a very good shot at winning the whole thing.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:00 AM   #2
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Lol...you forgot one thing...

Seattle's secondary is the greatest ever assembled...at least if you believe Deion...but hey, what does that dude know? lol

This game is a mismatch. Rewatch Sunday's games....one game looked like grandpa was out for a stroll and the other looked like a vicious street fight. Wonder who is going to to win...? Ask Whitlock...he has no dog in this fight...he's concerned for Mannings health.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:01 AM   #3
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irrelevant without adjustments for era. the broncos offense still comes out as world beaters, but the seahawks defense gets a pretty good boost.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:02 AM   #4
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you can have deion and whitlock screaming for attention, broncos fans will take actual numbers.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by SeahawkTalons View Post
Lol...you forgot one thing...

Seattle's secondary is the greatest ever assembled...at least if you believe Deion...but hey, what does that dude know? lol

This game is a mismatch. Rewatch Sunday's games....one game looked like grandpa was out for a stroll and the other looked like a vicious street fight. Wonder who is going to to win...? Ask Whitlock...he has no dog in this fight...he's concerned for Mannings health.
That's a great rebuttal.

"Deion likes our secondary! Jason Whitlock is scared!"

Our QB wasn't the one who has been sacked 7 times in the last two games. I'd be more worried about Wilson. We averaged the second most sacks in the playoffs and played two of the teams that allow the fewest sacks in the NFL. In fact Manning hasn't been sacked at all and barely been hit twice.

But I know this over your head because you didn't even read what I posted and are probably retarded.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:04 AM   #6
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you can have deion and whitlock screaming for attention, broncos fans will take actual numbers.
Yeah...those guys are dumb and don't see see the Bronco-light imo
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:06 AM   #7
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Yeah...those guys are dumb and don't see see the Bronco-light imo
You can repeat that when you're losing.


"But DEIONNNN SAID!!!! BUT DEION SAID!!!!!!"
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:08 AM   #8
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That's a great rebuttal.

"Deion likes our secondary! Jason Whitlock is scared!"

Our QB wasn't the one who has been sacked 7 times in the last two games. In fact Manning hasn't been sacked at all and barely been hit twice.

But I know this over your head because you didn't even read what I posted and are probably retarded.
Bro...PM can't get rid of the ball in 3 secs because everyone is covered. By that time Clemons, Avril, Irvin, and Bennett are sacking him.

Not sure what the plan is against that.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:10 AM   #9
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Bro...PM can't get rid of the ball in 3 secs because everyone is covered.

This is false. And you are stupid.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:16 AM   #10
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This is false. And you are stupid.
Guess you haven't been watching then...good luck brah.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:17 AM   #11
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Guess you haven't been watching then...good luck brah.
Really? You type out "brah?"
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:19 AM   #12
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Bro...PM can't get rid of the ball in 3 secs because everyone is covered. By that time Clemons, Avril, Irvin, and Bennett are sacking him.

Not sure what the plan is against that.
Trust me, he'll find someone open in 3 seconds. Seattle hasn't went up against a receiving core near as dangerous as this one.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:20 AM   #13
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Guess you haven't been watching then...good luck brah.
Quit wishing good luck. You don't mean it, you condescending prick.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:22 AM   #14
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Lol...you forgot one thing...

Seattle's secondary is the greatest ever assembled...at least if you believe Deion...but hey, what does that dude know? lol

This game is a mismatch. Rewatch Sunday's games....one game looked like grandpa was out for a stroll and the other looked like a vicious street fight. Wonder who is going to to win...? Ask Whitlock...he has no dog in this fight...he's concerned for Mannings health.
Lmao he brings up Whitlock. What I saw is one team gifting the other several unforced turnovers.

Keep using idiots to reinforce your stupidity. It's very amusing.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:22 AM   #15
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Trust me, he'll find someone open in 3 seconds. Seattle hasn't went up against a receiving core near as dangerous as this one.
Passes under 3 secs are generally 7 points the other way.

But hey...I'm sure this game will be totally different.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:24 AM   #16
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Passes under 3 secs are generally 7 points the other way.

But hey...I'm sure this game will be totally different.
Are you trying to act stupid, or are you just really good at it?
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:24 AM   #17
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Passes under 3 secs are generally 7 points the other way.

But hey...I'm sure this game will be totally different.
Do you even watch football?


And some wonder why we want mods to grenade this kind of low info football intelligence.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:28 AM   #18
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Holy hell this guy is so retarded I almost feel sorry for him. I'm pretty sure a good troll is supposed to elicit anger not pity.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:30 AM   #19
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Are you trying to act stupid, or are you just really good at it?
He is very good at it. A little over a dozen posts and he has already put Bob and KCDud to shame.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:46 AM   #20
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Actually, I was thinking that Seattle has the greatest secondary ever assembled earlier today. I'd give Seattle a top 10 NFL historical Defense.

Peyton Manning is the smartest and most accurate QB in NFL history. If he can beat this Defense (with a little help from his friends), he'll be the best QB ever.

The matchups are interesting.

1. Moreno/Ball vs. Seahawk LB's - I expect a lot of 4-wide from the Broncos to spread out Seattle. Knowshon will be in Jersey and showed outstanding quickness on the Metlife surface early in the year. Ball can get slippery too. A lot will depend on Broncos OL ability to manhandle Seahawks DL. Seahawks LB's are fast and will be able to track down Broncos RB's fairly quickly. All we need is 4.0 ypc.

2. Julius Thomas vs. Kam Chancellor - Chancellor won the match-up in preseason by forcing JT to fumble. However, JT is probably the best route running TE in football right now. It's going to be tough. Chancellor is like Atwater.

3. Demaryius Thomas vs. Byron Maxwell - Brees targeted Colston for 144 yards in the Divisional round. If Broncos are to win, DT will need a huge day.

4. Eric Decker vs. Richard Sherman - Like most Broncos, Decker has had a phenomenal transformation this season. Manning will need Decker to step up and make plays (unlike the pick-6 that bounced off Decker's arm last year against the Ravens). I think Decker can beat Sherman. Both are fiery. Intense matchup.

5. Welker vs. Seattle Nickel CB - Against Cover 1 Robber, Welker is going to have to catch passes like he did against NE (circus variety). Broncos chances could come down to whether Welker can make circus catches down the field, and his ability to possess hot routes while taking bone-crunching hits.

Last edited by pricejj; 01-23-2014 at 12:50 AM..
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:49 AM   #21
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I think Decker can beat Sherman.
lol
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:53 AM   #22
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Do you even watch football?


And some wonder why we want mods to grenade this kind of low info football intelligence.
Yeah...I watched the broncs be totally uncompetitive against the Seahawks in The preseason...like 40-10 or something. I'm sure that means nothing though I was pretty entertained by Mannings ability to do nothing.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:56 AM   #23
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lol
Curl, dig-routes, and slants all day. Both Decker and DT are bigger and faster than Sherman.

If anybody in the NFL can beat Sherman, I'd give it to Manning and Decker (or DT). Best in the business vs. best in the business.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:59 AM   #24
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Curl, dig-routes, and slants all day. Both Decker and DT are bigger and faster than Sherman.

If anybody in the NFL can beat Sherman, I'd give it to Manning and Decker (or DT). Best in the business vs. best in the business.
Best of luck brah!
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:06 AM   #25
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Bro...PM can't get rid of the ball in 3 secs because everyone is covered. By that time Clemons, Avril, Irvin, and Bennett are sacking him.

Not sure what the plan is against that.
The SeaChickens haven't had to face an elite offensive line ours this season.

I'm afraid your punk ass is in for a rude awakening.

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