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View Poll Results: Was the McDaniels "Era" worth it?
Yes 54 57.45%
No 40 42.55%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-21-2014, 06:23 AM   #76
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I have a degree in history, so I'll grant myself the right to make analogies that compare 20th century events to football. I never said these events were equivalent. But the question of the ends justifying the means is relevant in both cases.

Are you offended if I use the term "Scorched Earth Policy" when referring to McStalin's decisions as Denver's head coach? After all, that's an immemorial historical term. What about calling the coach "McStalin" instead of McDaniels or McDumbDumb? Does that offend you? What about calling Shannyham "Little Napoleon"? Is that disallowed in your PC world in which Bonaparte only exists in the history books? Shannyham was a short, dictatorial egotistical leader who let hubris define and destroy himself. So was Napoleon.

Listen: I would never say anything to diminish the horrors of the last century. In fact, putting those event into a context that non-historians can appreciate may actually be a good thing. And my analogies were far more relevant than the current PC crowd who regularly brand as a "Nazi" and a "Fascist" anyone who doesn't agree with their PC POV.

Lastly: I'm perfectly capable of choosing my own hobbies, thank you very much. What's next? You're going to tell me I should change my alias to "Armchair Seahawk" or that you don't like Nirvana so I should ditch the "Kurt Cobain" avatar?

:facepalm:

What offends me is the cavalier comparison of a period of human misery to 18 months of horrible football. It was and is a poor analogy. You having a degree in history does not suddenly make it a good analogy. Comparing a horrible human event to football...that is never a good thing. It does not impart wisdom, it does not suddenly teach anyone anything. All it does is trivialize the event in question and makes the person saying it appear stupid. You do not strike me as stupid, so I do not see why we are even having this discussion. You holding a degree in history means you should know better.

As for the bolded; If that is what your heart tells you, go nuts.

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Old 01-21-2014, 07:03 AM   #77
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This is nuts.... McD was a disaster. He took a proud franchise and turned it into the laughing stock of the NFL. During the McD era, we were what the Raiders are now and worse. Just for the 2 years he was here, look at what the franchise had to endure, Cutler trade, Brandon Marshal trade, absolutely horrible drafting, #2 pick in the draft, cellar of the AFCW, cheating scandal, Orton. McD managed to do what nobody else in the NFL could do, he made the Broncos fans turn on the franchise and on each other. Its funny that the Mane always refer to the Patriots as cheaters, damn... not only did we get caught cheating, we couldn't cheat correctly because we still lost the game.

Every team has a down year or so, some more than others. Look at Houston, they have the worse record in the NFL. Nobody is laughing at them. Everyone understands that Schaub had a down year and probably wont be back, team was riddled with injuries and expects them to be back next year and in the playoffs. Look at our 4-12 season... the Broncos were a joke. McD childish antics on the sidelines and his "i am better than you" attitude.

The fact that some of you are giving credit to McD for our success right now... wow
All I can say McD left a very bad scar on the franchise and no matter how good Peyton is or how Elway can perform his magic, the scar is always there. Need proof, we are still talking about it today while the team prepares for the superbowl! just as usual, the mane is split with discontent on each side.

and to the seahawks fan that keeps refering the Broncos franchise to Germany and Japan of WWII, are you seriously comparing a football team to what has to be one of the most disturbing time that we as humans have to endure?
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:57 AM   #78
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This is how desperate some people are in their attempt to find anything positive regarding the McShambles era. Your boy sucked. And he got his assistant handed to him again as OC last week. Get over it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:08 AM   #79
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until the broncos win a super bowl, no it wasn't worth it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:15 AM   #80
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Default I will give McDaniels credit for one thing

When he wasn't making stupid trades to move up in the draft to target a player, and would just let the draft come to him, he was pretty solid.

Moreno (though it took longer than we would have liked)
D Thomas
Eric Decker
Zane Beadles (not lights out, but has lived up to his second round status)
Robert Ayers (probably not a first round talent but he continues to contribute)

The draft is a crap shoot honestly. I feel if you can consistently grab one pro bowler and two solid starters a year, you are doing pretty good. McDaniel's problem was a common one that comes with youth, he wanted to outsmart everyone and be more clever than everyone else.

I always felt that if McDaniels has success in this league, it would not be with the Denver Broncos. We were his internship and I hated being the team that gave him the experience he would need to possibly have success somewhere else.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:16 AM   #81
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No, because we have no idea what the alternatives were.

Elway deserves the credit for building the superbowl team. mcdaniels doesn't get any of the credit, in my book anyways.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:17 AM   #82
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There's a douchebag poster on patsfans.com with the same username as you, backing the hawks in th big game in 2 weeks.

Tell me it's a coincidence
silence.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:22 AM   #83
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I voted yes. I was always on board with the FO, and did my best to follow their choices. Hell, I was one of the more vocal McD and Tebow supporters. Blind Fandom. McDaniels was and always will be, the lowest point of our storied franchise, regardless of the accolades we're sure to compile throughout the rest of our history. That being said, I'm a firm believer in using your past mistakes to propel you forward, and to help shape your future. It happened. He was here, he made some incredibly horrible decisions, and now he's gone. That won't ever change. We have some wonderful pieces in place thanks to that clown : Thomas, Decker, Beadles, Walton, Knowshon, Ayers...all contributing factors on our team right now. Those were his picks. They, along with the direction of our franchise, are a direct result of our past. Bowlen ****ed up, and tried to let the experiment play out for as long as he deemed necessary (too long in my opinion). The great part about that mistake, though, is the fact that he learned from it. Made the proper decisions going forward, and look at us now!

Yes, I'm an optimist. But, again, I'm a firm believer that the decisions we make in life (especially the poor ones that we LEARN from)shape who we are going forward. For that simple fact, yes, I think it was worth it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:23 AM   #84
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There's a douchebag poster on patsfans.com with the same username as you, backing the hawks in th big game in 2 weeks.

Tell me it's a coincidence
dude, Herc's been here forever.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:03 AM   #85
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The fact that some of you are giving credit to McD for our success right now... wow
I'm not actually giving McD any credit for our success (besides drafting some key players like Demaryius). I'm just saying that without him, we would not be where we are today.

Yes, he sucked. His tenure here was a friggin' disaster. BUT, it was all part of the path that led us to the doorstep of another Super Bowl championship, like it or not.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:29 AM   #86
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YES

Even though it sucked at the time it really woke up Org that a major change was overdue

It brought Elway in and PFM. I think org was losing its way slowly but, surely every year since rings.

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Old 01-21-2014, 09:29 AM   #87
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I suppose one could make the argument that the total and complete destruction of both Germany and Japan allowed these countries to be rebuilt as the economic powerhouses that they are today.

However, this history of Germany and Japan prior to 1945-1946 left countless millions of casualties in its wake. Nothing can justify that kind of carnage.

Shannyham needed to go, no question about that. But he needed to go after the Brian Griese experiment failed, not nearly a decade later. Replacing one failed dictator with another failed dictator ALWAYS spells disaster.


Epic post.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:49 AM   #88
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Hey guys,

I just got back from Alternate Dimension XC1-R, where McDaniels was never the head coach. I'm happy to announce the Broncos are still going to the super bowl!!!

Also, the Chiefs still haven't won a playoff game, so some things appear to be constant and unchangeable.

However, a few things are different. John Elway, the husband of famed Raiders cheerleader Paige Green, is helping rebuild the Raiders after the death of Al Davis. Rex Ryan is our head coach, who had just taken over this season after the disastrous Steve Spagnuolo era. And wouldn't you know it, that plucky QB Matt Schaub has had a great season here, throwing nearly as many TD's as INT's, and getting us into the Super Bowl after a wild 6th seed playoff race over the Steelers, Chiefs and Dolphins!! (thank goodness for Prater and those PI penalties in overtime)

My only concern is that we're facing the 49'ers in the super bowl, who are pretty much the exact same team as our dimension except NaVorro Bowman is healthy. Also their QB is Peyton Manning.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:01 AM   #89
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So who gets the credit for the development of the draft picks?

I don't think those players would've become what they've become under the previous regime or without Manning.

McClueless didn't even have enough hair on his ass to start Tebow when things really started going south in 2010.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:07 AM   #90
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Absolutely worth it. No doubt.

Everything that has happened to get us to this point in time was worth it. Wouldn't change a thing.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:56 AM   #91
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I liken it to fire prevention.. In many areas local fire control protocol calls for starting controlled fires to burn out undergrowth. The idea that purposefully causing a fire prevent against fires seems confusing if not crazy. By burning out the undergrowth it keeps the quick burning materials to a minimum while allowing the surviving trees to thrive and grow healthier.

I think our situation has ended in a similar manner. Take a little bit of pain to reflect and give perspective to appreciate the goodness!
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:07 AM   #92
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I liken it to fire prevention.. In many areas local fire control protocol calls for starting controlled fires to burn out undergrowth. The idea that purposefully causing a fire prevent against fires seems confusing if not crazy. By burning out the undergrowth it keeps the quick burning materials to a minimum while allowing the surviving trees to thrive and grow healthier.

I think our situation has ended in a similar manner. Take a little bit of pain to reflect and give perspective to appreciate the goodness!
Or inoculation. For Multicentric Castleman's Disease.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:50 AM   #93
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About a year ago, we had a similar discussion here, with the main point of debate being whether the Broncos really needed a major change of direction after the 2008 season.

I argued that they did, while others argued that it wasn't really all that necessary and that the setbacks we had under McD actually slowed down the team's development.

I'm not going to go through all that again, because, at the end of the day, there are just too many variables and "what-ifs" in play.

One thing I think we have learned from everything that happened since Shanahan was fired was this:

It is a very difficult thing in the NFL to come to a team as a new coach with a very specific and elaborate system you want to impose when the team you inherited was built with an entirely different approach in mind.

The McDaniels Broncos never looked like the Patriots because they weren't the Patriots. They didn't have Brady or Wilfolk or Welker or Mankins or Light or Seymour or Bruschi or McGinest or Watson or any of the other guys that made that team click.

The funny thing is that the Broncos nowadays do resemble another older AFC team: the Indianapolis Colts. And that's because they got the heart of the Colts. I don't think they set out to recreate an Indy-style team, but they just evolved naturally in that direction because of the personnel - specifically Peyton Manning.

Was all of this worth it?

I don't know. Ask me again in a couple weeks.

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Old 01-21-2014, 02:11 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by SleepingTiger View Post
This is nuts.... McD was a disaster. He took a proud franchise and turned it into the laughing stock of the NFL. During the McD era, we were what the Raiders are now and worse. Just for the 2 years he was here, look at what the franchise had to endure, Cutler trade, Brandon Marshal trade, absolutely horrible drafting, #2 pick in the draft, cellar of the AFCW, cheating scandal, Orton. McD managed to do what nobody else in the NFL could do, he made the Broncos fans turn on the franchise and on each other. Its funny that the Mane always refer to the Patriots as cheaters, damn... not only did we get caught cheating, we couldn't cheat correctly because we still lost the game.

Every team has a down year or so, some more than others. Look at Houston, they have the worse record in the NFL. Nobody is laughing at them. Everyone understands that Schaub had a down year and probably wont be back, team was riddled with injuries and expects them to be back next year and in the playoffs. Look at our 4-12 season... the Broncos were a joke. McD childish antics on the sidelines and his "i am better than you" attitude.

The fact that some of you are giving credit to McD for our success right now... wow
All I can say McD left a very bad scar on the franchise and no matter how good Peyton is or how Elway can perform his magic, the scar is always there. Need proof, we are still talking about it today while the team prepares for the superbowl! just as usual, the mane is split with discontent on each side.

and to the seahawks fan that keeps refering the Broncos franchise to Germany and Japan of WWII, are you seriously comparing a football team to what has to be one of the most disturbing time that we as humans have to endure?
I want to change my vote.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:28 PM   #95
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I voted yes, that it was "worth it" because I do not know or understand what the alternative is?

I accept and live in my reality, where ****ty things sometimes happen to good people and good things sometimes happen too. McD era sucked. It was the roughest of all times to be a fan… especially at the end. His era brought in the nauseating Tebowmania - where I would dread going to Orton-led games only to hear our fans boo our QB, even when we were winning.

I started becoming disgusted with Broncos fans at that point in time. I always thought that no matter what, if I had a disagreement with a Broncos fan, we would at least be able to relate on the same page because we were Broncos fans and that made us better than everyone else. That as Broncos fans we could rise above political disagreements, fender benders, and coughing without covering one's mouth. We had a bond and a brotherhood… but fans became disgusting from the Shanny firing through the Tebow trade.

It was an awful time and I wish we never had to go through it. But we did. I hope we learned something… I hope we gained some insight that things can always get ****tier, but we can stick it out for the greater glory in the long run. We probably didn't learn jack though. People here on the OM still want to attack Broncos fans that wanted to support Shanny/Cutler/McD/Tebow. They can't seem to let that go. Its a sign of a deep and infected cut that hasn't healed.

So, was it worth it? What a horrible question. But… yes, I will say it was worth it. Not on the assumption that we only got here to today because of the McDaniels tragedy, but because it was pain. Without some pain and disappointment at certain times its easier to lose perspective of right and wrong, good and bad. And the sweet just isn't nearly as sweet without the bitter.

I wouldn't change Broncos history for anything, even if life would have been more fun. I will accept the 96 season Jaguars playoff loss and I will accept the McD fiasco, because now I am a fan on top of fan mountain and the view is great from here! SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPER BOWL!
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:24 PM   #96
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To me, it seems like the alternative involves basically being the Bears. We would still have Cutler and Marshall, maybe Scheffler and Mike Leach. We would not have Beadles, Ayers, Moreno, Decker or Thomas and could be stuck with a continuation of the late-round, undersized, zone blocking OL that was always good at running between the 20s and couldn't pass protect without a ton of help from the QB or pick up short yardage if their lives depended on it.

As a result of sticking with the ever-middling, oft-injured Cutler we would not have Manning and would be stuck in perpetual mediocrity. We would see Cutler come out of the gates looking like the best QB in the league only to have him fall back into bad habits and throw away games that we could have won with even mediocre game management. Or he would get injured, AGAIN, and we'd be stuck with some ****ty backup for half a season. We needed McDaniels because he had the balls to clean house of the uber-talented, me-first players that Shanahan started collecting at the end of his time here that have yet to contribute to anything special. It's just unfortunate that McDaniels allowed his ego to fill the void that their absence left and that he ended up having no ability to adapt his sytem to the players he had. It also sucks that his first draft was such a pile of garbage outside of 3 picks.

It allowed Bowlen to see his mistake and right that wrong by signing on a true power-share with Elway and Fox. In turn this got us Manning and now we are where we are. Wasn't the alternative basically Rex Ryan or Steve Spagnuolo and Cutler? All of whom do just enough to make you think they will pull it together next year and then fail again (or just fail as badly as McDaniels in the case of Spagnuolo).

Worth it.

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Old 01-21-2014, 03:28 PM   #97
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:40 PM   #98
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No. That was an awful time and the single worst person in the history of the franchise. I don't view it as the "key" to unlocking Elway/Manning or anything like that. These are independent things. Someone else could have come in and failed less spectacularly and we could have still ended up in the same spot. Key word being could...we don't know. There isn't a per se connection.
ok but on the flip side we do know exactly what happened after Bowlen hired McD which inevitably lead to Elway's return to the team and consequently, Manning's signing.

the only reason you are playing the "what if" game is because you still wish Shanny was the HC.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:42 PM   #99
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Even Orton delivered some memorable moments!

this never gets old. King Neckbeard, a legend.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:54 PM   #100
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It was definitely worth it. A lot of our core players were drafted by McDaniels. He also brought us Mike McCoy (helped us get to the playoffs with Tebow which couldn't have hurt the Manning chase), Adam Gase, Studdesville and front office guys like Keith Kidd and Matt Russel....

Also, going through those down years make the good years like this one feel so much better.
99.9% of people overlook this. Don't have the guts or integrity to give any credit at all. Mostly it's "he was a stupidheaded dummyface."

Along with the coaches/FO you listed right now we have Moreno, Beadles, Bruton, Walton, Unrein, Decker, DThomas, Ayers, Vickerson, Chris Clark.

Dude had his share of fups also, but there's a marked lack of integrity among Bronco fans regarding McD.
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