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View Poll Results: Was the McDaniels "Era" worth it?
Yes 54 57.45%
No 40 42.55%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:46 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Armchair Bronco View Post
Man, I had forgotten about that debacle. Right up there with the epic rushing performance of Corey Dillon against Denver in 2000 (278 yards, breaking Walter Payton's old record set back in 1977).

Those clown HC's forced me to hang my head in shame for a week after Denver's epic defensive meltdowns.

EDIT:

For the record, here were the numbers for the McFadden debacle:

McFadden carried the ball 16 times for a total of 165 yards and 3 touchdowns. He also recorded 2 receptions for 31 yards and a touchdown.
Over 10 yards per carry. Oh man. The bad guys had like 350 yards as a team that day, too, and Cable eased up in the third quarter. It was humiliating.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:50 PM   #52
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600 yards? Really?

So is losing 59-14 at home during the regular season a worse loss than getting raped 55-10 in a Super Bowl in front of millions of people watching on national television?
Of course. Getting blown out in the Super Bowl is worlds away from an ass-whoopin' from a hated divisional rival that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. At home. With Pocket Sloth at QB.

I have to stop. I'm starting to tear up.

THANK YOU ELWAY.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:56 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Armchair Bronco View Post
Obviously, we are where we are today because of everything that unfolded in the past. I mean, how else would be be where we are? This is PRECISELY how the arrow of time works!

:facepalm:

But that's not the important point. There are many paths to the present.

I have a bowling ball, and I drop it on my toe. Now my toe is broken because I dropped a bowling ball on it. But what if I had dropped a 20-pound sledge hammer on it? Well, it would still be broken. What about a feather? Not broken.

See how this works?
Give me the guarantee. McD led us to our present situation. Another coach may not have.

The bowling ball is a sphere and all of its weight falls on a single pinhead-sized point (your toe). So it breaks the toe. But the sledge's weight is evenly distributed across its 9x3-inch surface as it lands on your toe/foot. So it does not actually break your toe. Sure, it hurts. It hurts a lot, and your whole foot hurts...not just the one toe. But it does not lead to the same end that the bowling ball did.

Again, there is no guarantee that another coach would've led us to what we have today. None at all. Give me 2 ****ty years with McD because today is GLORIOUS.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:13 PM   #54
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And Earl Thomas would be wearing orange.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:31 PM   #55
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Anytime you've got a butthole like McDaniels to take one of the most successful franchises in the league to hit rock bottom, to embarrass them, to cheat and show utter incompetence, it can't be good, nor can it be worthy...
**** that!
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Broncobiv View Post
It is especially worth it considering the light-speed turnaround we have experienced. From the McD era to Super Bowl in 3 short years!

God bless you, John Elway.
Not just Elway, but Fox deserves some credit. Elway helped rebuild the team and resuscitated the franchise from laughingstock to one of the most liked teams in the league.

But Fox was incredible at changing the atmosphere and attitudes in the locker room and with the players making it a place that players want to play.

So thank you McDaniels for being the epic **** up that led us to our current glory.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:45 PM   #57
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Give me the guarantee. McD led us to our present situation. Another coach may not have.

The bowling ball is a sphere and all of its weight falls on a single pinhead-sized point (your toe). So it breaks the toe. But the sledge's weight is evenly distributed across its 9x3-inch surface as it lands on your toe/foot. So it does not actually break your toe. Sure, it hurts. It hurts a lot, and your whole foot hurts...not just the one toe. But it does not lead to the same end that the bowling ball did.

Again, there is no guarantee that another coach would've led us to what we have today. None at all. Give me 2 ****ty years with McD because today is GLORIOUS.
Not gonna argue with this. I can't make any guarantees.

I'm glad things worked out the way they did for Denver, but man: those lean years were HARD! Let's not forget: it wasn't just the scorched earth policy of McStalin, it was also the endless years of institutional mediocrity that Shannyham gave us. That was also hard to endure: never good enough to go anywhere, not crappy enough to get any decent draft picks...and knowing that even if we did have good draft position, Shannyham would waste the pick on someone like Deltha O'Neal or Willie Middlebrooks.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:08 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair Bronco View Post
Obviously, we are where we are today because of everything that unfolded in the past. I mean, how else would be be where we are? This is PRECISELY how the arrow of time works!

:facepalm:

But that's not the important point. There are many paths to the present.

I have a bowling ball, and I drop it on my toe. Now my toe is broken because I dropped a bowling ball on it. But what if I had dropped a 20-pound sledge hammer on it? Well, it would still be broken. What about a feather? Not broken.

See how this works?
on your example of bowling ball or sledge hammer there could be different possible outcomes that come from your broken toes. for example, let's say you drop that bowling ball and go to the emergency room. there you have a Doctor that looks like Sofia Vergara but she absolutely hates bowlers and she sets your toe and sends you home. now perhaps you drop the hammer and Dr Sofia loves clumsy men who know how to handle heavy tools. now you get your toe set and a happy ending.

yes there are many paths to the present, but McDaniels path led to him going down in flames, leading to Bowlen bringing in Elway to fix the mess, Elway to hire Fox to change the culture in the locker room, which led to success on the field which led to Peyton wanting to come to Denver and that leads us to our current time where we are 1 game away from a 3rd Lombardi.

Had the McDaniels path been even mediocre in that 2nd season and not filled with a cheating scandal, he would have gotten a 3rd season as our HC. that leads to either Tebow playing a whole season and either flaming out completely ending Tebowmania, or Tebow becomes decent, either way no Elway, no Fox, no Manning.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:21 PM   #59
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And Moreno, d Thomas, Eric decker, Beadles and Robert ayers and getting rid of the frown cannon.... So... Yeah.

Could he develop them though? I don't think so. Would look more like his St Louis year. 5 players out of how many draft picks. 3 picks wasted on Richard Quinn should counter a few of those good picks. Trading a 2nd for a 1st straight up for Alphonso smith also takes away the value. Tebow, well he's a 1st rounder out of the league after just a few years. He was def worse in his draft picks than he was good.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:41 PM   #60
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What a weird thread! There is an assumption here that if MD had not come to the Broncos then we would not have hired JE and not have gotten PFM and would not be going to the SB. And just exactly how do you know that??

Bowlen had the guts to fire shanny and then fire mcd. The JE return to the Broncos org always seemed inevitable to me. Bowlen was gonna do what it took no matter what.

The funny thing is that I am one of the lesser mcd haters. He has talent and some of his draft choices that were maligned early do not look so bad now. A huge swing and miss on Tebow but otherwise pretty respectable. However he was too young and arrogant to truly lead a team. He may be a fantastic head coach at some time or may never get over it, but he is a very smart football mind.

Having said all that I voted no. If you asked the question this way - "would you take the mcd years knowing you would be in the SB 3 yrs later?" I would say YES!!!! But we did not know that and we don't know they would not be here anyways. 4-12, losing to the rdrs that badly, no no no.

The premise that ppl are assuming in calling ppl out for voting no is extremely flawed.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:01 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
on your example of bowling ball or sledge hammer there could be different possible outcomes that come from your broken toes. for example, let's say you drop that bowling ball and go to the emergency room. there you have a Doctor that looks like Sofia Vergara but she absolutely hates bowlers and she sets your toe and sends you home. now perhaps you drop the hammer and Dr Sofia loves clumsy men who know how to handle heavy tools. now you get your toe set and a happy ending.

yes there are many paths to the present, but McDaniels path led to him going down in flames, leading to Bowlen bringing in Elway to fix the mess, Elway to hire Fox to change the culture in the locker room, which led to success on the field which led to Peyton wanting to come to Denver and that leads us to our current time where we are 1 game away from a 3rd Lombardi.

Had the McDaniels path been even mediocre in that 2nd season and not filled with a cheating scandal, he would have gotten a 3rd season as our HC. that leads to either Tebow playing a whole season and either flaming out completely ending Tebowmania, or Tebow becomes decent, either way no Elway, no Fox, no Manning.
I'll buy this, and will amend my original POV.

And just to confirm, you did say that Sofia Vergara likes clumsy men with big tools?

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/sof...cream-boom.jpg

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Old 01-21-2014, 01:10 AM   #62
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It worked out for the best. McDaniels did make some good draft selections, but also some terrible ones. The filming of the 49ers practice is why he gets a black eye in my opinion. We were in better position then most expected even after the 4-12 season.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:21 AM   #63
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I say yes.

Without him Cutler is probably still around and we don't have Manning.

We also don't have some shockingly good draft picks.

He was an enigma with the draft. He had three horrid trades is Tebow, Richard Quinn and Alphonso Smith; but hit on some core players who are paying huge dividends for us this season.

Then again, some could argue Tebow was worth it too. Alphonso Smith was horrid though. Absolute trash. We're going against the pick we gave the Seahawks for him at the Super Bowl in All-Pro Earl Thomas.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:32 AM   #64
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Of all the -- engraved-in-granite -- opinions I've ever expressed on the Mane, the last one that I wanted to be right on was the destructiveness to this franchise that was done by McDaniels. He sucked ass and I did a happy dance the day he was fired. I genuinely wish Bowlen had picked any of the other (non-Patriot) HC candidates.

That said, I believe "Elway-in-the-FO" was always on Bowlen's to-do list; just with an interim crew -- kinda like Wade Phillips was a "buffer" between the Reeves era and the Shanahan era.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:39 AM   #65
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The problem with these kinds of speculations is that the moment you change ANYTHING, everything else will change as well. Read Isaac Asimov's "The End of Eternity" if you don't believe me.

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Eterni...nd+of+eternity

It's like when the refs reverse a touchdown w/ a botched call in the 1st quarter, and then that team ends up losing by 6 points. All the local fans will b**** that were it not for the botched reversal, they would have won the game.

But if the touchdown had stood up, then everything would have unfolded differently. There would have been a TV timeout, then the extra point, then another TV timeout, then the ensuing kickoff, and yet another TV timeout. But instead they kicked a field goal...and lost a TV timeout...and lost the game!
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:51 AM   #66
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Teams get hosed on officiating calls/non-calls in every NFL game.

Doesn't change the fact that -- given Bowlen's fondness for Elway -- it seems likely that he was destined to play a role in team leadership regardless of whether or not we suffered through McDaniels.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:55 AM   #67
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Good grief...

You have tortured the analogy to be cute. You have compared a down period in a sport franchise's history to the deaths of millions of people. You then continue the weak sauce analogy by comparing two coaches for a sports franchise to two of the worst mass murderers in human history.

So when I say you cannot compare the two, it is because the two are not comparable. If you take football that seriously then you obviously need a new hobby.

I have a degree in history, so I'll grant myself the right to make analogies that compare 20th century events to football. I never said these events were equivalent. But the question of the ends justifying the means is relevant in both cases.

Are you offended if I use the term "Scorched Earth Policy" when referring to McStalin's decisions as Denver's head coach? After all, that's an immemorial historical term. What about calling the coach "McStalin" instead of McDaniels or McDumbDumb? Does that offend you? What about calling Shannyham "Little Napoleon"? Is that disallowed in your PC world in which Bonaparte only exists in the history books? Shannyham was a short, dictatorial egotistical leader who let hubris define and destroy himself. So was Napoleon.

Listen: I would never say anything to diminish the horrors of the last century. In fact, putting those event into a context that non-historians can appreciate may actually be a good thing. And my analogies were far more relevant than the current PC crowd who regularly brand as a "Nazi" and a "Fascist" anyone who doesn't agree with their PC POV.

Lastly: I'm perfectly capable of choosing my own hobbies, thank you very much. What's next? You're going to tell me I should change my alias to "Armchair Seahawk" or that you don't like Nirvana so I should ditch the "Kurt Cobain" avatar?

:facepalm:

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Old 01-21-2014, 03:52 AM   #68
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Peyton Manning and John Elway are responsible for us being in the Super Bowl right now, not McD. I know McD got rid of Cutler and drafted a lot of the players on our current roster, but he also wasted several picks. It could be said that he wasted many more picks than he hit on.

We didn't have to go through McD to get to where we are today.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:29 AM   #69
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Peyton Manning and John Elway are responsible for us being in the Super Bowl right now, not McD. I know McD got rid of Cutler and drafted a lot of the players on our current roster, but he also wasted several picks. It could be said that he wasted many more picks than he hit on.

We didn't have to go through McD to get to where we are today.
It's a mind-boggling reach to try to give McDaniels even a tiny portion of the credit for where the Broncos are today. He left the team at 4-12 with a #2 overall draft pick. 'Nuff said; he was a total disaster. An epic fail.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:02 AM   #70
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No. That was an awful time and the single worst person in the history of the franchise. I don't view it as the "key" to unlocking Elway/Manning or anything like that. These are independent things. Someone else could have come in and failed less spectacularly and we could have still ended up in the same spot. Key word being could...we don't know. There isn't a per se connection.
Oh please. Had Shanny not been fired, we would not be were we are right now. It all started with that simple action.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:05 AM   #71
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Overall, it wasn't. But there were some positives. And I'm not so much focused on specific players that he drafted. He also made some stupid choices in the draft and someone else might have done better. I think the McDaniels experience was such a disaster that it made Bowlen and Ellis bring in Elway to save the situation. It was so bad that it gave Elway tremendous leverage. After McDaniels, Bowlen and Ellis couldn't have thought running football operations was easy.

It's strange to think that Elway might impact the Broncos even more favorably as an executive than he did as a player. I think having him in the front office adds cache/credibility when it comes to signing other players. Plus his draft picks haven't been awful either.

The biggest positive of the McDanniels experience was that it paved the way for the return of our white knight.

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Old 01-21-2014, 05:05 AM   #72
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No. McDaniels was a total failure in every sense. If we lose this Superbowl and everything burns to the ground and sets into motion a series of events that leads to us winning 2 Superbowls five years from now would it be worth it? No. The only way to evaluate moments is by what is happening in that moment. McDaniels was one of the worst things that ever happened to this franchise, and any success that happened after he was run out of town is despite him, not because of him.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:20 AM   #73
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Would you go back to the end of the 2008 season now and twist on an alternate path for the Broncos to take from there? Be it keep Shanahan, hire someone other than Mcdaniels, whatever.

Or would you stick, take what we went through and where we are now?

Anyone who would twist is completely insane IMO.

So yeah, it was worth it for me. Terrible as it may have been.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:44 AM   #74
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The Cheatriot stink he brought to the franchise, and the way the fanbase was divided was not worth it.

Not to mention all the personnel blunders.

Everybody forget the 59-14 ass whipping to the Faiders where they were down 38-0 in the first half!!?? Chokeland could've scored 100 if they wanted!!

His 28 game reign of error made for some great moments on the message board though!
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:48 AM   #75
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Definate yes. If MCD didn't run Cutler out of town we would still have him and the fan base would be after him now. There would be no Manning, DT, Miller, Decker, Moreno and others he drafted. The way it worked out he got some pieces in place and Elway came in and cleaned it up.
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