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View Poll Results: Was the McDaniels "Era" worth it?
Yes 54 57.45%
No 40 42.55%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Broncobiv View Post
Even Orton delivered some memorable moments!

I do remember that one time we broke off 17 points.

Gase > McD
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:05 PM   #27
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You cannot compare occupied Germany and Japan to the 2009-10 Denver Broncos. One is a football team, the other was the defeat of two of the most evil war machines mankind has ever devised. And Shanahan and McDaniels are not and can never be compared to Hitler and Tojo.

Yes, I can.

analogy: the act of comparing two things that are alike in some way

Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed in 1945 and were rebuilt from the ground up. Today they are solid, reliable democracies with 2 of the strongest economies in the world. Knowing this, was the carnage prior to 1945-1946 worth it?

The Broncos franchise was utterly destroyed by years of ineptness from Mike "Little Napoleon" Shannyham and a Scorched Earth policy practiced by his successor, Josh "Stalin" McStalin. Today, after being rebuilt by Elway, Fox, Miller, and Manning, the Broncos are a powerhouse once again and will be going to the Super Bowl.

The analogy breaks down in this respect: we can never know how things would have turned out if, say, Shannyham had been fired 10 years ago and been replaced by someone (anyone!) more competent. Maybe we would have 1 or 2 more Lombardi's in the trophy case by now.

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #28
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Thanks to McDamnit's ineptness at GM/HC we got Manning.
He was in over his head as a czar type of HC.....but he got rid of numerous malcontents like Cutler and Marshall, and drafted key contributors and future stars like Moreno, D.Thomas, Beadles, and Decker, etc.

His failures while frustrating to most on here also paved the way for new leadership in Fox and Elway, and now their vision is about to be realized.

So yeah it was worth those two seasons to enjoy the last three, and especially this one if it ends in another Lombardi in the Broncos trophy case
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #29
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Lol.....sigh.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:10 PM   #30
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No. I was at the Raider game when McFadden rolled up like 600 yards rushing on us. Nothing was worth that.

Sucking less with a non-McD and eventually scoring a coup with Elway and Manning are not mutually exclusive scenarios, IMO.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:16 PM   #31
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HEll no...remember Kyle Orton. How can you ever ask if that was worth it?
Patriots have lost to the Broncos twice in the past 8 years.....Orton is one of our QB's to beat them....Manning was the other on Sunday.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:17 PM   #32
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People voted no?

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:19 PM   #33
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Worth it? I don't know.

Necessary? Absolutely. Had we held on to Shanahan, Elway probably wouldn't be here, and we'd look like the Redskins right now with nothing to show for it.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:19 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Armchair Bronco View Post
Yes, I can.

analogy: the act of comparing two things that are alike in some way

Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed in 1945 and were rebuilt from the ground up. Today they are solid, reliable democracies with 2 of the strongest economies in the world. Knowing this, was the carnage prior to 1945-1946 worth it?

The Broncos franchise was utterly destroyed by years of ineptness from Mike "Little Napoleon" Shannyham and a Scorched Earth policy practiced by his successor, Josh "Stalin" McStalin. Today, after being rebuilt by Elway, Fox, Miller, and Manning, the Broncos are a powerhouse once again and will be going to the Super Bowl.

The analogy breaks down in this respect: we can never know how things would have turned out if, say, Shannyham had been fired 10 years ago and been replaced by someone (anyone!) more competent. Maybe we would have 1 or 2 more Lombardi's in the trophy case by now.

Good grief...

You have tortured the analogy to be cute. You have compared a down period in a sport franchise's history to the deaths of millions of people. You then continue the weak sauce analogy by comparing two coaches for a sports franchise to two of the worst mass murderers in human history.

So when I say you cannot compare the two, it is because the two are not comparable. If you take football that seriously then you obviously need a new hobby.

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:20 PM   #35
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No. I was at the Raider game when McFadden rolled up like 600 yards rushing on us. Nothing was worth that.

Sucking less with a non-McD and eventually scoring a coup with Elway and Manning are not mutually exclusive scenarios, IMO.
600 yards? Really?

So is losing 59-14 at home during the regular season a worse loss than getting raped 55-10 in a Super Bowl in front of millions of people watching on national television?
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:21 PM   #36
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To put it more simply than I did earlier:

Might a different, slightly-less crappy coach have led us to the same point we are at now, with Elway/Fox/JDR/Gase/Manning and at the brink of a Super Bowl championship? Maybe.

Did Josh McDaniels, residing as our ultra-crappy head coach, lead us to where we are now, with Elway/Fox/JDR/Gase/Manning and at the brink of a Super Bowl championship? YES.

The McD era was very short-lived. To suffer through and be where we are now? Yes, it was worth it.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:21 PM   #37
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That name is notorious in the Simpsons fanbase.

As is Handsome B. Wonderful.
And Max Powers.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:22 PM   #38
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....and Chesty Larue
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:22 PM   #39
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Patriots have lost to the Broncos twice in the past 8 years.....Orton is one of our QB's to beat them....Manning was the other on Sunday.
Interesting...

still no.

Beating the Patriots 1 other time is not a measure of success. McD's presence on our sideline and his intimate knowledge of personnel tendencies definitely assisted in the win, but 1 win vs the Patriots it doesn't make his presence as a coach valid. He sucked and Pat knew his decision was wrong - even an experienced defensive coordinator knew it was a bad move to have McD in house and moved on. It was a bad hire and not worth the move, thus he was fired. You can name xyz for reasons to validate it, but the actual firing of the coach confirms that he was not good for the Broncos franchise even though he may have upside talent in other areas.

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:26 PM   #40
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Is the argument for the yes that had those events not happened we would not have been able to get Peyton Manning? I suppose I would rather have Manning than Cutler. And I prefer this coaching staff to whatever unqualified and untalented personal friends Shanahan would have rolled out every year at the various coordinator positions. I personally feel once Shanny was gone, Cutler decided he was going to leave regardless. He wanted to play elsewhere and lied to get his way.

But assuming he leaves regardless, that doesn't excuse the wasted draft picks and the horrid trades for crap players. Those are things that really hurt the franchise.

I am grateful for the Tebow season, I guess. The Steelers wild card win is one of the most exciting playoff games I can remember watching. But at the end of the day it was all a mirage.

I still think McDaniels did poorly in a lot of ways and hurt this franchise. Am I grateful that Elway and Fox were able to work with what was here and keep building on that? Yes. Do I appreciate that some of the problem McDaniels caused directly led to Manning being able to come here? Yes. But that doesn't mean we couldn't have had similar circumstances and not had to go through the McDaniels hell. So I'll say no.
This!
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:27 PM   #41
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Worth it? I don't know.

Necessary? Absolutely. Had we held on to Shanahan, Elway probably wouldn't be here, and we'd look like the Redskins right now with nothing to show for it.
People need to look up McD's winning percentage in Denver over 26 odd games vs. Shanny's last 26 or so.....Also, McD's Denver WP vs. Shanny's Wash WP.

Nevermind the eventual Elway/Manning....Trading away Cutler for his essential equal in Orton + draft picks is one of the 10 best things to happen to this franchise.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:27 PM   #42
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600 yards? Really?

So is losing 59-14 at home during the regular season a worse loss than getting raped 55-10 in a Super Bowl in front of millions of people watching on national television?
What does a game 24 years ago have to do with the McDaniels era of 3-4 years ago? He didn't say the Raiders loss was the worst in franchise history.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:28 PM   #43
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No. I was at the Raider game when McFadden rolled up like 600 yards rushing on us. Nothing was worth that.
Man, I had forgotten about that debacle. Right up there with the epic rushing performance of Corey Dillon against Denver in 2000 (278 yards, breaking Walter Payton's old record set back in 1977).

Those clown HC's forced me to hang my head in shame for a week after Denver's epic defensive meltdowns.

EDIT:

For the record, here were the numbers for the McFadden debacle:

McFadden carried the ball 16 times for a total of 165 yards and 3 touchdowns. He also recorded 2 receptions for 31 yards and a touchdown.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:30 PM   #44
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no. We did nit have to be bad
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:33 PM   #45
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Did Josh McDaniels, residing as our ultra-crappy head coach, lead us to where we are now, with Elway/Fox/JDR/Gase/Manning and at the brink of a Super Bowl championship? YES.
Obviously, we are where we are today because of everything that unfolded in the past. I mean, how else would be be where we are? This is PRECISELY how the arrow of time works!

:facepalm:

But that's not the important point. There are many paths to the present.

I have a bowling ball, and I drop it on my toe. Now my toe is broken because I dropped a bowling ball on it. But what if I had dropped a 20-pound sledge hammer on it? Well, it would still be broken. What about a feather? Not broken.

See how this works?
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:39 PM   #46
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Thanks to McDamnit's ineptness at GM/HC we got Manning.
And Moreno, d Thomas, Eric decker, Beadles and Robert ayers and getting rid of the frown cannon.... So... Yeah.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:41 PM   #47
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He was in over his head as a czar type of HC.....but he got rid of numerous malcontents like Cutler and Marshall, and drafted key contributors and future stars like Moreno, D.Thomas, Beadles, and Decker, etc.

His failures while frustrating to most on here also paved the way for new leadership in Fox and Elway, and now their vision is about to be realized.

So yeah it was worth those two seasons to enjoy the last three, and especially this one if it ends in another Lombardi in the Broncos trophy case
Let's not forget he drafted tebow which was one of the funnest years as a fan(if you weren't a complete retard)
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:43 PM   #48
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The real question is "was having to watch Orton worth it?" If we win the Super Bowl yes. If not, no. Orton drained my soul
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:43 PM   #49
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What does a game 24 years ago have to do with the McDaniels era of 3-4 years ago? He didn't say the Raiders loss was the worst in franchise history.
He used that loss as the reason that the McDaniels era was not worth going thru to get where we are today...

A loss is a loss.... he acted as if that lost to the Raiders was the most embarrassing thing that ever happened to this franchise.

I think getting stomped in the Super Bowl by progressively worse scores every time was more embarrassing..... but it made winning back to back several years later that much more enjoyable.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:44 PM   #50
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The OP is simply begging the question by claiming at the outset (Josh McDaniels was the cost for getting PFM) what he is actually trying to prove (again, Josh McDaniels was the cost for getting PFM).

Good decisions by the FO and borderline miraculous football by a great all-time QB is why the Broncos are poised to win their third Super Bowl. The cost of suffering Josh McDaniels is in no way a necessary condition for the team's recent run of success.
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