The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #51
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
I don't know how you can honestly say it's so cut and dry. It's not. I THINK the 2013 is better, but it's arguable the 1998 is up there. Both great. Pleasure watching both, but our track meet of an O this year was incredible.
To me it's cut and dry because the '98 Broncos had a rushing game on par with this year's passing game along with an elite passing game. As this team's running game is not elite (it's become pretty good, but it's not elite), to me the '98 team had the better all-around offense. If and when this offense tears through the playoffs and delivers a title I may revise my take, but right now it just seems obvious to me that the more balanced offense that actually helped its defense every game was the better offense.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:03 PM   #52
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 46,020

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
To me it's cut and dry because the '98 Broncos had a rushing game on par with this year's passing game along with an elite passing game. As this team's running game is not elite (it's become pretty good, but it's not elite), to me the '98 team had the better all-around offense. If and when this offense tears through the playoffs and delivers a title I may revise my take, but right now it just seems obvious to me that the more balanced offense that actually helped its defense every game was the better offense.
I think once you start applying qualifiers to your argument, you've lost. "Well is this the best ball control offense?!?!?" Does anyone think the Rams offense wasn't as good because they weren't grinders?

It's cut and dry to me. Most points. Period.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:07 PM   #53
Finger Roll
Ring of Famer
 
Finger Roll's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I think once you start applying qualifiers to your argument, you've lost. "Well is this the best ball control offense?!?!?" Does anyone think the Rams offense wasn't as good because they weren't grinders?

It's cut and dry to me. Most points. Period.
Agreed. I never thought I would see a team score over 600 points in a season. 5 guys with over 10 touchdowns and only scored fewer than 27 points in one game this season. This offense is the best I've ever seen and it's not even close. I've been following football since 1985
Finger Roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:09 PM   #54
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBuff View Post
Aga, '98 Vikings, like 2000 Rams and 2013 Broncos, scored like pinball machines.

Seriously, they are the Top 3 offenses I've ever seen
One more person that completely fails to understand the value of TOP and a dominating running game. All three of those offenses were electrifying and prolific (2007 Patriots as well). None of them could control a game the way the '98 Broncos offense could. Notice that only one of those teams won it all (hopefully two soon).

Scoring 31.3 points per game while dominating the clock and essentially playing defense with your offense (1998) > scoring 37.9 points per game while giving your opponents tons of time to match you (2013).

And yes that is basically the difference in points we are talking about here.

Last edited by Agamemnon; 12-29-2013 at 09:17 PM..
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:12 PM   #55
rmsanger
I support Missouri cops
 
rmsanger's Avatar
 
Another one bites the dust!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,949

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

If they win a SB then we can have all the debates we want until eternity. Until then it's only Elway.
rmsanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:15 PM   #56
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I think once you start applying qualifiers to your argument, you've lost. "Well is this the best ball control offense?!?!?" Does anyone think the Rams offense wasn't as good because they weren't grinders?

It's cut and dry to me. Most points. Period.
There is no "qualifier". You people have a very simple-minded take on the matter that devalues every aspect of an offense beside point production (which means that every top offense ever for you will be a pass happy one). I'm sorry if you don't get that the dominate running/passing combo of 1998 was better than this offense, but that reflects more on your ignorance than anything.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:16 PM   #57
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmsanger View Post
If they win a SB then we can have all the debates we want until eternity. Until then it's only Elway.
And that's a point I touched on. Until this offense proves they can do it against good teams in the playoffs I don't even think it's debatable. If and when they do I may well change my toon.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:17 PM   #58
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,807
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
One more person that completely fails to understand the value of TOP and a dominating running game. All three of those offenses were electrifying and prolific (2007 Patriots as well). None of them could control a game the way the '98 Broncos offense could. Notice that only one of those teams won it all (hopefully two soon).

Scoring 31.3 points per game while dominating the clock and essentially playing defense with your offense (1998) > scoring 36.8 points per game while giving your opponents tons of time to match you (2013).

And yes that is basically the difference in points we are talking about here.
The 1998 team only averaged 1 min more in TOP per game than the 2013 team.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #59
spiralism
Pro Bowler
 
spiralism's Avatar
 
Fox MUST go

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 729

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Knowshon
Default

I think it has to be us this season. We hold basically all the records. 1998 was an extremely well oiled, efficient machine. This is nigh on unstoppable. The only thing that can stop it is its own execution and getting out of its own way as evidenced in the 3 defeats. Once this offence has clicked into gear like it generally has by the 3rd quarter of most games, there's been nothing that the opposing defence could do to stop it, they've looked utterly helpless.

Two of our three lowest outputs have been when playing San Diego...because they were so ****scared of it they outpossessed us two to one in the games. The other was a defence that was #1 in the league before we tormented them.
spiralism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:40 PM   #60
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
I only remember this happening 2-3 times in 98. And some of those blister games were pretty high scoring. This offense is better, but also plays in more of a passing oriented league.
Brister started 3 games and he relieved Elway in the Raiders game early in the 4th quarter. Yeah they score points with Brister at QB BECAUSE the offense was that good. How many points would this team score with Brister at QB?
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:40 PM   #61
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
The 1998 team only averaged 1 min more in TOP per game than the 2013 team.
First of all that's actually pretty significant. Second of all the 1998 team didn't always play for TOP. In fact they played very aggressively much of the time with a very balanced run/pass attack. However once they had a significant lead they could switch gears and bleed the clock like no team I've ever seen.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:41 PM   #62
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer81 View Post
Different eras, coaches, offenses and rules. As far as passing yardage and points go, this offense is better than the 1998 offense on paper. That is a statement of fact.

Yep that is true.
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:42 PM   #63
spiralism
Pro Bowler
 
spiralism's Avatar
 
Fox MUST go

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 729

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Knowshon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
Brister started 3 games and he relieved Elway in the Raiders game early in the 4th quarter. Yeah they score points with Brister at QB BECAUSE the offense was that good. How many points would this team score with Brister at QB?
I don't think it's a fair comparison tbh. We were a run first offence in 98 so comparing it to having Brister at QB over Manning in the greatest passing offence ever doesnt fit.
spiralism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:43 PM   #64
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBuff View Post
Warner and the 00 Hrams rolled up scores more than we did I think. Their running game was better, but numbers don't lie. 2013 Broncos best offense EVER.

BEST EVER:

1. 2013 BRONCOS
2. 1997 BRONCOS
3. 1998 BRONCOS
4. 00 rams
5. 2012 BRONCOS
6. 98 vikes
7. 94 49ers
8. 84 dolfish
9. Fouts' Bolts
10. 1996 BRONCOS
... the '97 Denver offense was not near as productive as the '98 offense and that was the same era. '97 was the year the WRs kept dropping the ball over and over again.
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:44 PM   #65
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiralism View Post
I don't think it's a fair comparison tbh. We were a run first offence in 98 so comparing it to having Brister at QB over Manning in the greatest passing offence ever doesnt fit.
Yes it is an unfair comparison as is comparing point totals. Pass first offenses score more all other things being equal.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:48 PM   #66
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Yes it is an unfair comparison as is comparing point totals. Pass first offenses score more all other things being equal.
Yes they score more but they do not control the clock thus they put more pressure on their defense thus their defense gives up more points and thus they have to score more points to win.

In 1998 they got the lead and they shortened the game by running TD.

I love this offense but If I had to choose which offense to take into the playoffs.... I am taking the one with Terrell Davis!!!
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:50 PM   #67
Broncos_OTM
Dropping bombs from 5280
 
Broncos Over All

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,613

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
There is no "qualifier". You people have a very simple-minded take on the matter that devalues every aspect of an offense beside point production (which means that every top offense ever for you will be a pass happy one). I'm sorry if you don't get that the dominate running/passing combo of 1998 was better than this offense, but that reflects more on your ignorance than anything.
Both teams dominated, what manning has done is once in a lifetime like. I love the broncos of 97/98 for one simple reason.. Elway and Terrell were home grown. its great to have the thought that Denver could have had two of the best offenses ever.
Broncos_OTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:50 PM   #68
spiralism
Pro Bowler
 
spiralism's Avatar
 
Fox MUST go

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 729

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Knowshon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
Yes they score more but they do not control the clock thus they put more pressure on their defense thus their defense gives up more points and thus they have to score more points to win.

In 1998 they got the lead and they shortened the game by running TD.

I love this offense but If I had to choose which offense to take into the playoffs.... I am taking the one with Terrell Davis!!!
No doubt but hindsight is always 20/20. If we were to go on to win it (Please God), the answer a year from now could be very different.
spiralism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:53 PM   #69
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiralism View Post
No doubt but hindsight is always 20/20. If we were to go on to win it (Please God), the answer a year from now could be very different.
Not for me. Give me Terrell Davis and John Elway and I will get the lead and then shorten the game and win.

In this offense it is too reliant on Manning throwing the ball 50 times a game. If Manning gets hurt Denver is ****ed.. The 98 team proved they could win and even go on the road and win without Elway.
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:54 PM   #70
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
Yes they score more but they do not control the clock thus they put more pressure on their defense thus their defense gives up more points and thus they have to score more points to win.

In 1998 they got the lead and they shortened the game by running TD.

I love this offense but If I had to choose which offense to take into the playoffs.... I am taking the one with Terrell Davis!!!
I've been making the same exact point for a few page in case you missed it.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:55 PM   #71
SureShot
Hurry! Hurry!
 
SureShot's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,948

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Russell
Default

If they don't win the SB nobody will give a ****.
SureShot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:55 PM   #72
spiralism
Pro Bowler
 
spiralism's Avatar
 
Fox MUST go

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 729

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Knowshon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
Not for me. Give me Terrell Davis and John Elway and I will get the lead and then shorten the game and win.

In this offense it is too reliant on Manning throwing the ball 50 times a game. If Manning gets hurt Denver is ****ed.. The 98 team proved they could win and even go on the road and win without Elway.
Game's moved on since then though, it's not as safe a strategy now as in 1998. If Manning goes down we obviously are but it's a lot to do with our special teams being subpar and the defence being flat out horrible as much as anything. Also, i dont think the two situations are anywhere near comparable given how different they are schematically.
spiralism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #73
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
Not for me. Give me Terrell Davis and John Elway and I will get the lead and then shorten the game and win.

In this offense it is too reliant on Manning throwing the ball 50 times a game. If Manning gets hurt Denver is ****ed.. The 98 team proved they could win and even go on the road and win without Elway.
Yes but if they lost TD they were pretty much just as ****ed (SB XXXII made that clear when he went out for a quarter). Fortunately that didn't happen.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #74
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
I've been making the same exact point for a few page in case you missed it.
you are a genius.

I usually don't read other people's posts. I am only interested in my own.
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:57 PM   #75
Agamemnon
Ring of Famer
 
Agamemnon's Avatar
 
Resurrected!

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,380

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Clark
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiralism View Post
Game's moved on since then though, it's not as safe a strategy now as in 1998. If Manning goes down we obviously are but it's a lot to do with our special teams being subpar and the defence being flat out horrible as much as anything. Also, i dont think the two situations are anywhere near comparable given how different they are schematically.
I don't agree. If the Vikings had had a HOF QB and some great receivers last season I think they could have easily won it all.
Agamemnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Denver Broncos