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Old 12-12-2013, 08:15 AM   #476
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Out of context? Talking about 90% of his CAREER is out of context?

I'm sure this article is full of **** too.

Mike Shanahan's Brilliant Last Act

It's sad that, you don't realize if Mike's career took a different route with another team you'd be singing the exact same tune as I.

What exactly makes Shanahan one of the best? I can come up for more excuses for his success than you can for his failures.
I really enjoyed reading that. In his final years i Denver, shanny got flack at his pressers too, reporters asking tuff questions. Shanny just never let them ask another question once they did. controlling manipulative self serving weasel, I only hope he gets another job to erase all doubt !
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:16 AM   #477
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Is there any HC in the history of the NFL that has gone a period 10 seasons with winning 1 playoff game and be considered as one of the best? How does this even make sense
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:18 AM   #478
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John Madden: Shutting RG3 down affects the integrity of the game


Madden said he fundamentally disagrees with Shanahanís view that keeping Griffin healthy for the offseason is more important than playing him in the final three games of the regular season.

ďI mean, you know itís baloney,Ē Madden said. ďI like Mike Shanahan, and Iím not talking behind his back, but when you say something like that, you know thatís not right ó youíre not going to sacrifice regular season games. Thereís only 16 of them a year. Youíre not going to sacrifice regular season games for an offseason program.Ē
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:22 AM   #479
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Guys get benched at the end of the season all the time. Often to evaluate the talent behind them.

The reason Shanahan gave is BS, but how is he doing it ruining the "integrity of the game" when coaches do it all the time?
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:23 AM   #480
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Former Shanahan quarterbacks pile on


ďItís not a fun situation and I feel for RG3 ó a great kid, a really, really great football player Ė heíll bounce back, get healthy and persevere through this,Ē Jake Plummer told Jim Corbett of USA Today. ďI see great things in his future. But I think itís going to be with a new coach. . . .

ďI donít think there will be a Shanahan future there. I think there will be a different head coach for this franchise quarterback who had a great year last year, and the knee injury played into this because I have not seen another quarterback this exciting, maybe other than Randall Cunningham.Ē

Plummer acknowledges he didnít have that same talent level, and he apparently believes that guys who canít play at the level Shanahan demands are destined for trouble.

ďI just know from my experience sometimes Shanahan would ask too much of me,Ē Plummer said. ďI was pretty good. But I was no Peyton Manning. I had to fight every day.

ďA similar situation happened with me, and it happened with Donovan McNabb because we had our own styles, and it didnít mesh with what Mike wanted. What I see happening there isnít the same, but it is similar.Ē

ďThis is about Mike Shanahan,Ē McNabb said on his NBC Sports Radio show, via the Washington Post. ďMike and Kyle Shanahan trying to show why they feel like Kirk Cousins gives them the best chance of winning. So many things have leaked out, and Iíve always kept my ear on things that are happening with the Washington Redskins, teams that Iíve played with. And when you hear reporters that I know are linked to Mike Shanahan talk about [RGIIIís] preparation, you talk about heís missing some reads, you know, heís not reading some things. And I knew that he was big on having Kirk Cousins to get out there and run the offense.Ē

McNabb can relate, because he ended up being treated the same way in his only season as the teamís starter.

ďIím used to this whole deal because, listen, I was benched for Rex Grossman,Ē McNabb said. ďAnd [Shanahan] came out and said [Grossman] gave the team the best chance of winning. Well, Rex Grossman finished the season 1-2 or 1-3. I mean, that didnít help nothing. And so, the whole thing about it is, sometimes you have to look in the mirror and look at yourself. Stop looking at everybody else. I donít think that he and Kyle Shanahan can do that.Ē

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His coaching prowess as one of the best is pretty universally accepted.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:23 AM   #481
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Are people really knocking Shanahan for surrounding himself with talented and successful people? I thought that's what a good leader is supposed to do?

Of course his record isn't as good when talent (player and coaching) walks out the door. That doesn't take away what he accomplished as head coach of the Denver Broncos. With great talent and coaching he led the team to 2 Superbowls. He led the team back to the AFC Championship game. He won a lot of games WITHOUT Elway.

I do believe that Shanahan the GM is pretty awful. And I do believe that when he was fired, it was the right time. But some of you are acting like he's trash, and he's not. He's the most successful HC we have ever had.

Show some appreciation for the man that helped Elway & Company finally win a Superbowl. Show some appreciation for the man who helped the whole area celebrate like they never celebrated before, or since.

Is he perfect? NO. But he is a huge part of our team's history, and a huge part of the most successful part of that history.
Not a single person has ever questioned what Shanahan did for the Broncos in the late 90's. It simply isn't part of the discussion. No Bronco fan doesn't appreciate those years. Honestly his ability as an offensive game planner should be beyond reproach as well.


What is up for discussion is how things changed over time. Every successful coach has at some point realized that his message/tactics/style simply isn't effective anymore, if he doesn't realize it, someone else does and gets rid of them. Shanahan isn't the same guy, and hasn't been for about 10 years, that he was in the late 90's early 2000's. He's built terrible habits and keeps repeating the same mistakes. That doesn't taint any great thing he has done before. You can't be great forever.... the greatest coaches in history fizzled at the end of their careers. It's the way of football.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:26 AM   #482
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McNabb is an idiot and was awful at Washington. Rex Grossman is still on the team and McNabb is butthurt.

Should Shanahan have stuck with a lost and ineffective McNabb? Maybe he should have been more considerate of McNabb's feelings?

You know, when you remove the most succesful seasons out of any coach's career, of course they look bad.

Shanahan still led the team to the 2005 AFC Championship game, and the Broncos were regular participants in the playoffs in the mid 2000's.

Like I said, his time here was up, it was time to go, but the team still had some success under Shanahan after Elway.

Last edited by Powderaddict; 12-12-2013 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:26 AM   #483
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Not a single person has ever questioned what Shanahan did for the Broncos in the late 90's. It simply isn't part of the discussion. No Bronco fan doesn't appreciate those years. Honestly his ability as an offensive game planner should be beyond reproach as well.


What is up for discussion is how things changed over time. Every successful coach has at some point realized that his message/tactics/style simply isn't effective anymore, if he doesn't realize it, someone else does and gets rid of them. Shanahan isn't the same guy, and hasn't been for about 10 years, that he was in the late 90's early 2000's. He's built terrible habits and keeps repeating the same mistakes. That doesn't taint any great thing he has done before. You can't be great forever.... the greatest coaches in history fizzled at the end of their careers. It's the way of football.
so does this put him in the likes of the same genes as Al Davis and Jerry Jones? I mean you know they won Super Bowls too.

Probably shouldn't go there though...
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:29 AM   #484
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I asked this earlier and no one answered it.

If you are Daniel Diaper Snyder, would you sign Shanahan to an extension? Is he your coach?

or

You own a football team, would you sign Shanahan?
If I was Snyder I'd have a hard time extending him right now. If Shanny can demonstrate leadership and get everyone in the organization working together to end the season, and have a great plan for FA, I'd lean toward keeping him for the final year of the contract and look at extending him during the season. As Samuel L. Jackson said, "That better be one charming mother****ing pig."

We don't know what Bruce Allen is saying to Snyder right now, maybe he's telling Snyder he can do a better job running the organization and can find an HC that can do a better job with the team.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:33 AM   #485
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McNabb is an idiot and was awful at Washington. Rex Grossman is still on the team and McNabb is butthurt.

Should Shanahan have stuck with a lost and ineffective McNabb? Maybe he should have been more considerate of McNabb's feelings?
While I do agree that McNabb is an idiot and he was awful at Washington...he completely fell off once he came to Washington...just look at his prior season. Something obviously didn't mesh between him and Shanny, and there went his career.

Quote:
You know, when you remove the most succesful seasons out of any coach's career, of course they look bad.
Yeah, but I'm removing 2, which is 10% of his career. You remove 10% of any great coaches career it shouldn't consist of 1 playoff win.

Quote:
Shanahan still led the team to the 2005 AFC Championship game, and the Broncos were regular participants in the playoffs in the mid 2000's.

Like I said, his time here was up, it was time to go, but the team still had some success under Shanahan after Elway.
I don't know about you, but simply making the playoffs is not a success... 1 playoff win ...especially over a 10 year period...you talk to John Elway right now and ask him if he think the 10 year stretch after him was successful and acceptable by any means.

What do you think he would say?
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:47 AM   #486
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What Von Miller thread? Don't know what you're talking about, please share with the class.
I'll bump that at seasons end as I said I would. (maybe if during SB week if we make it that far)

Enough with Shanahan....I'll glady change my views and opinions and eat crow if anything changes with him in the future.

Gotta have more than 1 successful season...

Last edited by Action; 12-12-2013 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:50 AM   #487
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Show some appreciation for the man that helped Elway & Company finally win a Superbowl. Show some appreciation for the man who helped the whole area celebrate like they never celebrated before, or since.

Is he perfect? NO. But he is a huge part of our team's history, and a huge part of the most successful part of that history.
I totatly agree but letís not forget the genius of Mike Shanahan when he used a 3rd round pick (#101 overall) in 2005 for Maurice Clarett.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #488
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I totatly agree but letís not forget the genius of Mike Shanahan when he used a 3rd round pick (#101 overall) in 2005 for Maurice Clarett.
And a 1st rounder on Jarvis Moss
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #489
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I'm sick of the same endless conversation as well.

Rep link/PM me the other thread? I won't bump it, just curious what you're talking about now.
rep'd
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #490
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Yeah, but I'm removing 2, which is 10% of his career. You remove 10% of any great coaches career it shouldn't consist of 1 playoff win.
To be fair, that's what Foxy would have if you removed two of his seasons.


At the end of the day Shanny needs to resign himself to a decent GM and focus on coaching offense.
Until then, he will struggle. And I'm not sure he'd ever be willing to do it. Eventually he may have no choice.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:57 AM   #491
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To be fair, that's what Foxy would have if you removed two of his seasons.

Shanny needs to resign himself to a decent GM and focus on coaching offense.

Until then, he will struggle.
No one is out here claiming Fox is one of the greatest though.

And 10% of Fox's career would only equate to 1.2 seasons...which rounds to 1.

John Fox is in the midst of building his legacy right now... we'll see what his looks like at 15-20 years as a HC.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #492
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No one is out here claiming Fox is one of the greatest though.

And 10% of Fox's career would only equate to 1.2 seasons...which rounds to 1.

John Fox is in the midst of building his legacy right now... we'll see what his looks like at 15-20 years as a HC.
We can dance this dance all you want. Rounding seasons for some arbitrary 10% threshold... lolz. The fact of the matter is so much of it has to do with things outside a normal coach's control that it's not productive to try to argue in stats.

Foxy's roughly a .500 coach without a HOF QB on the roster. Then again, so is Bill Belichick. It's one of those things you have to watch to get a feel. And my permanent recollection is that Shanny did way more with his offensive personnel they he usually should have. A good coach.

But he never HAD the best personnel. Which, along with the endless procession of DC's, was all on him.

But to me, there's no arguing he's a great offensive coach. He just needs to realize that and focus on what he does best.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #493
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I totatly agree but letís not forget the genius of Mike Shanahan when he used a 3rd round pick (#101 overall) in 2005 for Maurice Clarett.
had that pick panned out Shanny would have looked like a genius. On the flip side there were some other really solid RBs that the Broncos could have had but didn't take in that draft and had Shanny taken a RB like Marion Barber whom the pokes took after the Broncos grabbed Clarrett, Broncos would of been set at RB. I don't even wanna think about how great Barber would have been for the Broncos, it's too painful to discuss.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:16 AM   #494
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We can dance this dance all you want. Rounding seasons for some arbitrary 10% threshold... lolz. The fact of the matter is so much of it has to do with things outside a normal coach's control that it's not productive to try to argue in stats.
Here's the thing - Mike Shanahan was in control...and we all agree he's pretty bad as a GM.

Quote:
Foxy's roughly a .500 coach without a HOF QB on the roster. Then again, so is Bill Belichick. It's one of those things you have to watch to get a feel. And my permanent recollection is that Shanny did way more with his offensive personnel they he usually should have. A good coach.
Is that a good head coach or just a good offensive coach? I think we can agree Shanny can put together a good offense.

Foxy did it with Delhomme. I'm not out here arguing career w/l...I'm strictly talking playoffs success over a sustained time period. No one is saying Shanahan needed to win a playoff game every year.

Bill Belichick drafted Tom Brady, so he deserves all the credit in the world for him...it's harder to say "oh without Tom Brady _______"...

In Fox and Shanahan's situation, they came to an organization with a HOF QB already there and fully developed.

Quote:
But he never HAD the best personnel. Which, along with the endless procession of DC's, was all on him.

But to me, there's no arguing he's a great offensive coach. He just needs to realize that and focus on what he does best.
Here's the thing - with Shanahan... I'm looking at his last 10 years as a Broncos HC (14 if you're counting these past 4 as a Redskins HC)...this is a continuous time period, not just 10 random years picked out for my own benefit.

We can talk about Shanahan as an offensive coach or Shanahan as a head coach...two different things.

Now, I'm really done.

Broncos play today...why the **** am I still talking about Shanahan...
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:19 AM   #495
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Barber washed out pretty quick in his own right.
yah but he had like 4 really solid years and in Shanny's system he would have been fantastic.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #496
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Likely so.

I think Montee Ball would destroy planets in that system.
2005 draft with DJ Williams and Marion Barber would have really been a pretty damn solid draft even with the other picks being pretty meh. Oh well.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:25 AM   #497
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Here's the thing - Mike Shanahan was in control...and we all agree he's pretty bad as a GM.



Is that a good head coach or just a good offensive coach? I think we can agree Shanny can put together a good offense.

Foxy did it with Delhomme. I'm not out here arguing career w/l...I'm strictly talking playoffs success over a sustained time period. No one is saying Shanahan needed to win a playoff game every year.

Bill Belichick drafted Tom Brady, so he deserves all the credit in the world for him...it's harder to say "oh without Tom Brady _______"...

In Fox and Shanahan's situation, they came to an organization with a HOF QB already there and fully developed.



Here's the thing - with Shanahan... I'm looking at his last 10 years as a Broncos HC (14 if you're counting these past 4 as a Redskins HC)...this is a continuous time period, not just 10 random years picked out for my own benefit.

We can talk about Shanahan as an offensive coach or Shanahan as a head coach...two different things.

Now, I'm really done.

Broncos play today...why the **** am I still talking about Shanahan...
I think we mostly agree. I think maybe there's just a bit too much "Shanny Sucks" hyperbole. The "One playoff win" stuff is too easy. He easily could've had one or two more had he not drawn the elite Colts 2 years in a row. Probably the worst matchup imaginable for us at that time. And it showed.

Meanwhile, you can whittle Foxy's "1 playoff win" down to a Tebow miracle that probably couldn't have happened had the Broncos drawn a different opponent.

But you're right about Shanny as GM for the most part. Not so sure about the distinction over good offensive coach vs head coach. Every head coach has a focus on one discipline or the other. The primary issue with the '00+ Broncos was personnel. With the right people, HC Shanny would've had a ton more success, IM(ns)HO.

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Old 12-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #498
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One last thought: if Cousins plays well over the last 3 games..does that build trade value and thus make it the right move for the Redskins organization (if they make a trade for a good pick)...?
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:30 AM   #499
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I think we mostly agree. I think maybe there's just a bit too much "Shanny Sucks" hyperbole. The "One playoff win" stuff is too easy. He easily could've had one or two more had he not drawn the elite Colts 2 years in a row. Probably the worst matchup imaginable for us at that time. And it showed.

Meanwhile, you can whittle Foxy's "1 playoff win" down to a Tebow miracle that probably couldn't have happened had the Broncos drawn a different opponent.

But you're right about Shanny as GM for the most part. Not so sure about the distinction over good offensive coach vs head coach. Every head coach has a focus on one discipline or the other. The primary issue with the '00+ Broncos was personnel. With the right people, HC Shanny would've had a ton more success, IM(ns)HO.
Of course, and you can obviously say that about anyone but Shanahan couldn't find any good defensive head coaches either...and the person in charge of personnel was Shanahan, so if that's the issue, the finger still points back at him.

In regards to the Manning statement...there can always be excuses...I mean Manning lost to the Patriots in both of those years that he beat the Broncos...he's not excused from it either. And it's not like the Patriots won in some sort of shootout...they won it on defense.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #500
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I do think that's what's going on here. The "talk" between Shanahan and Snyder was explaining this move to try and stock pile value to recomp some picks invested in Griffin.

Cousins might be better than every **** QB in this draft class.
Would explain deactivating Griffin to remove all the hoopla and distractions for Cousins to perform well... Griffin probably needs some humbling anyways.

What I mean is, Cousins wouldn't have to play with the pressure of RG3 behind him...
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