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Old 12-05-2013, 07:36 PM   #251
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Champ in his present state is not going to enhance our spotty secondary as a corner. However if he would learn to play the safety position his remaining skills could make a significant impact.
Yeah, because it is easier to learn a new position than it would be to work back into game shape and rebuild a little confidence from being out due to injuries.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:14 PM   #252
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as a safety, champ would be more dependant on his smarts than his physical skills. all of champs, experience, instrincts, savvy, ball skills would be accentuated as a deep safety. playing center field his aging physical skills would be less of an impact on his productivity.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:21 PM   #253
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IMO, DRC is a perfect replacement for him. DRC is quick, and can keep up with just about anyone in the league. That said, I agree that Bailey should probably be moved to FS. It would be a perfect world to have DRC and Bailey (in his prime) on the field at the same time, but Bailey just can't keep up anymore, and it's unfortunate.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:28 PM   #254
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Maybe Chef Luigi has higher performance standards for a guy who is cashing in a cool $10 million + and playing like Roc Alexander.
thank you for your objectivity and bravery.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:40 PM   #255
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frank gore
brandon marshall
anquan bolden
the houston LB after his drug suspension
D revis
john elway
am I allowed to mention AP?
so many others that returned to the field and played great first game back after suspension or injury.
champ has been allowed to stand on the sidelines next to his reputation until he felt he was 100%, He came back on his own schedule.
He failed to meet the challenge, he did not expect to get targeted, he now knows the bitter truth. he is exposed !and a week from today philip rivers is going to be ruthless in targeting champ !
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:23 PM   #256
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Champs money will go to DT and hell maybe even Moreno now lol. Seriously who wants to see Moreno leave now?
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:24 PM   #257
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I don't know why he was crying but he's my new favorite bronco and one of the few to be 3 yrs into the fan doghouse and pull out.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:25 PM   #258
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Why do people keep up with the silly idea of Champ playing safety? He can't hold up at corner and safety is more physical. True you can lose some speed and play safety, but you can't just expect him to be good at that spot all banged to hell.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:52 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by CHEF LUIGI View Post
frank gore
brandon marshall
anquan bolden
the houston LB after his drug suspension
D revis
john elway
am I allowed to mention AP?
so many others that returned to the field and played great first game back after suspension or injury.
champ has been allowed to stand on the sidelines next to his reputation until he felt he was 100%, He came back on his own schedule.
He failed to meet the challenge, he did not expect to get targeted, he now knows the bitter truth. he is exposed !and a week from today philip rivers is going to be ruthless in targeting champ !
More than half of the names on your list came back to play their "first game back" on opening day of the next season -- after a full training camp. And anyway, that's not the point I was making -- there's a big difference between "healthy enough to play" and "in football shape" and it's disingenuous of you to attempt to blur that distinction.

Again, if a youngster like Von Miller needs a couple of weeks to get back into football shape, then why is a decade-older, coming-off-an-injury veteran given no time whatsoever before being baldly declared to be over-the-hill?

Reading your posts, one would think it was Champ wearing Chefs #31. (hint: that's the guy in last Sunday's game who got repeatedly targeted).
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:02 AM   #260
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champ sat out 10 + games and came back when he declared himself ready.
VON made a disapointing return to the game, why would he be a standard of comparison?
sorry that my football mensa does not provide me with the names of all the countless players who returned from injury or suspension and played well their first game back. I have no doubt there are a dozen examples. lets just ignore JFE for the time being.
But my critique of champ was present long before this season, and I knew that once he could no longer hide behind his reputation and he was no longer considered the path of greater resistance, he would be challenged and exposed.
for the last 3 years he has just been avoided,
why throw at champ when you can throw at the likes of roc alexander.
But now exposed, he will be targeted.
titans on sunday, and if he still wants to take the field, rivers will torch him on thursday.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:28 AM   #261
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champ sat out 10 + games and came back when he declared himself ready.
VON made a disapointing return to the game, why would he be a standard of comparison?
sorry that my football mensa does not provide me with the names of all the countless players who returned from injury or suspension and played well their first game back. I have no doubt there are a dozen examples. lets just ignore JFE for the time being.
But my critique of champ was present long before this season, and I knew that once he could no longer hide behind his reputation and he was no longer considered the path of greater resistance, he would be challenged and exposed.
for the last 3 years he has just been avoided,
why throw at champ when you can throw at the likes of roc alexander.
But now exposed, he will be targeted.
titans on sunday, and if he still wants to take the field, rivers will torch him on thursday.
do you think this would be news to JDR? what do you think he should/will do about it?

please - before you rant further, one sentence at a time, answer this - is Champ better than Kavon Webster?

I just don't understand what the problem is. Champ isn't going anywhere in 2013. 2014 is worth discussing IMO, but not really worth discussing during a playoff push. There will be plenty of time to discuss Champs 2014 outlook after Feb 2, 2014.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:39 AM   #262
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Good points about 2014 vs 2013. For now , all that matters is this year.

I think that the main problem is whether Champ will actually help or hurt us on the field this year. If he doesn't play much, he is obviously not going to get better by knocking the "rust " off. And at the same time if he does play and is rusty he is going to be targeted and taken advantage of. Play him too much and maybe he gets reinjured ( this is something that can happen on even a small snap count.) But play him too little and he never gains any thing.

Webster is a rookie and while he has played well earlier this year is starting to show that rookie wall, that so often means worse play. And he did play horribly the 4th quarter last week.

It's a conundrum.

But it is probably a situation where we NEED Champ to play himself into shape. And we all hope that he can return to his form of a year or two ago. The problem is his confidence and stamina. Yes he is injured, and probably not going to play at a HIGH level again. But he can help the team if they don't put him in too many bad situations ( isolated on a big fast WR). Unfortunately our safeties are not playing well and the help he probably needs can't be relied on, right now. And that means that Champ needs to step up ( hurt or not) and do his best, because the team needs him.

DRC is definitely our #1, Harris probably our #2, and Champ ( if on the field) is our best #2B or #3. Webster is fading, as are Ihenacho, and even Woodyard somewhat ( injuries). Adams is solid but slower than you'd like.

What this all means is that Del Rio has to be smart and scheme the D to get the best matchups and also give safety help.. Champ must play...but where and who he covers is important to get him into better shape.

I guess we will find out over the next 3 weeks or so if Champ is really done at CB or just playing hurt.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:53 AM   #263
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Good points about 2014 vs 2013. For now , all that matters is this year.

I think that the main problem is whether Champ will actually help or hurt us on the field this year. If he doesn't play much, he is obviously not going to get better by knocking the "rust " off. And at the same time if he does play and is rusty he is going to be targeted and taken advantage of. Play him too much and maybe he gets reinjured ( this is something that can happen on even a small snap count.) But play him too little and he never gains any thing.

Webster is a rookie and while he has played well earlier this year is starting to show that rookie wall, that so often means worse play. And he did play horribly the 4th quarter last week.

It's a conundrum.

But it is probably a situation where we NEED Champ to play himself into shape. And we all hope that he can return to his form of a year or two ago. The problem is his confidence and stamina. Yes he is injured, and probably not going to play at a HIGH level again. But he can help the team if they don't put him in too many bad situations ( isolated on a big fast WR). Unfortunately our safeties are not playing well and the help he probably needs can't be relied on, right now. And that means that Champ needs to step up ( hurt or not) and do his best, because the team needs him.

DRC is definitely our #1, Harris probably our #2, and Champ ( if on the field) is our best #2B or #3. Webster is fading, as are Ihenacho, and even Woodyard somewhat ( injuries). Adams is solid but slower than you'd like.

What this all means is that Del Rio has to be smart and scheme the D to get the best matchups and also give safety help.. Champ must play...but where and who he covers is important to get him into better shape.

I guess we will find out over the next 3 weeks or so if Champ is really done at CB or just playing hurt.
best post in this entire thread !
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:56 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by ScottXray View Post
Good points about 2014 vs 2013. For now , all that matters is this year.

I think that the main problem is whether Champ will actually help or hurt us on the field this year. If he doesn't play much, he is obviously not going to get better by knocking the "rust " off. And at the same time if he does play and is rusty he is going to be targeted and taken advantage of. Play him too much and maybe he gets reinjured ( this is something that can happen on even a small snap count.) But play him too little and he never gains any thing.

Webster is a rookie and while he has played well earlier this year is starting to show that rookie wall, that so often means worse play. And he did play horribly the 4th quarter last week.

It's a conundrum.

But it is probably a situation where we NEED Champ to play himself into shape. And we all hope that he can return to his form of a year or two ago. The problem is his confidence and stamina. Yes he is injured, and probably not going to play at a HIGH level again. But he can help the team if they don't put him in too many bad situations ( isolated on a big fast WR). Unfortunately our safeties are not playing well and the help he probably needs can't be relied on, right now. And that means that Champ needs to step up ( hurt or not) and do his best, because the team needs him.

DRC is definitely our #1, Harris probably our #2, and Champ ( if on the field) is our best #2B or #3. Webster is fading, as are Ihenacho, and even Woodyard somewhat ( injuries). Adams is solid but slower than you'd like.

What this all means is that Del Rio has to be smart and scheme the D to get the best matchups and also give safety help.. Champ must play...but where and who he covers is important to get him into better shape.

I guess we will find out over the next 3 weeks or so if Champ is really done at CB or just playing hurt.
Good points. With the added bonus of high school level punctuation and sentence structure.

My bet is if he can by without re-injuring hat foot (a big if --most players with any kind of lisfranc are done for the season) he'll be a big addition to the Broncos secondary.

And you're right, hating on him now, in the midst of a playoff push (not to mention his legacy as a Bronco), for his projected 2014 salary is pretty damn stupid.

Last edited by Natedogg; 12-06-2013 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:01 AM   #265
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I am not hating on champ, just pointiong out that instead of the mid season savior you all declared he would be, he is instead a liability as a cover corner.
sorry if the smell of reality is so disagreeable to all of you.

shooting the messenger doesnt change the message,
it may only improve the punctuation and spelling.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #266
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please - before you rant further, one sentence at a time, answer this - is Champ better than Kavon Webster?
maybe.
I would say YES in a zone scheme, but if that scheme requires hitting the WR at the LOS, then it is a definate NO because champ has NEVER done that in his 16 year career.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:06 AM   #267
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of course my best answer would be, lets see them run a 40 !
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:19 AM   #268
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"It's like people want to be a witness when the end comes." --Champ Bailey

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...orward-broncos

Good piece. I did not know that he's now the oldest CB in the league. (I did know that he has more Pro Bowl selections that any other player, ever.)
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:32 AM   #269
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what's this BS about champ being a target and taken off the field?
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:58 AM   #270
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I'd love to know when being called a solid #2b/#3 CB in a pass heavy league suddenly equated to a "liability".

When I see guys like Paris Lenon on the field for Woodyard when he gets hurt, that's when I think "liability". Champ? Please.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:51 AM   #271
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I'd love to know when being called a solid #2b/#3 CB in a pass heavy league suddenly equated to a "liability".

When I see guys like Paris Lenon on the field for Woodyard when he gets hurt, that's when I think "liability". Champ? Please.
Or watching Kayvon Rahim-Jump that pass late last week. That's when I thought to myself "Sure am glad Champ's foot still hurts, otherwise he'd be out there"
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:25 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEF LUIGI View Post
champ sat out 10 + games and came back when he declared himself ready.
VON made a disapointing return to the game, why would he be a standard of comparison?
sorry that my football mensa does not provide me with the names of all the countless players who returned from injury or suspension and played well their first game back. I have no doubt there are a dozen examples. lets just ignore JFE for the time being.
But my critique of champ was present long before this season, and I knew that once he could no longer hide behind his reputation and he was no longer considered the path of greater resistance, he would be challenged and exposed.
for the last 3 years he has just been avoided,
why throw at champ when you can throw at the likes of roc alexander.
But now exposed, he will be targeted.
titans on sunday, and if he still wants to take the field, rivers will torch him on thursday.
It's not rocket science. If a young guy like Von Miller isn't in football shape immediately upon return from a 6-game suspension, then why is a much-older player who was forced to sit out 10 games due to injury -- expected to? It's a totally unrealistic expectation; of course a return to football shape is going to take some time. But I think we need Champ to be back in football shape.

And again, I didn't ask you for the names of players who "played well" in their first game back from injury or suspension; the point was that virtually no player is in football shape in their first game back if they've had to miss significant time.

But I'm done with repeating myself; if you haven't gotten the distinction yet, this post (or any further post) is unlikely to convey the message.
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:06 PM   #273
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Now I'm thinking I should have titled this thread:

"It's almost time for Champ to hang it up"

Clearly, if Champ can play AND is healthy AND has knocked the rust off, then he can help the team this year, notwithstanding the fact that he's already missed like 8 games (and ignoring completely the fact the he got burned big time in the biggest game of the year last post season against the Ravens).

But unless he's willing to take a big pay cut next year OR he's prepared to switch to safety OR he's found the Fountain of Youth and has bathed in its waters, then I don't think it makes sense for Champs to return to the fold "as is".

Something's gotta change.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:11 PM   #274
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as a safety, champ would be more dependant on his smarts than his physical skills. all of champs, experience, instrincts, savvy, ball skills would be accentuated as a deep safety. playing center field his aging physical skills would be less of an impact on his productivity.
At Safety, he would still have spent 2/3rds of the season recovering from a foot injury.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:54 PM   #275
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At Safety, he would still have spent 2/3rds of the season recovering from a foot injury.
Not true. If he had started the season as a Safety, the arrow of time would have flown differently...and this time around he would NOT have injured his foot!

It's called "The Butterfly Effect" in case you're wondering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
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