The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #26
The Lone Bolt
Ring of Famer
 
The Lone Bolt's Avatar
 
GO CHARGERS!!!!

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Boredom Capital of the Universe (Everett, WA)
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
But the government administrator doesn't take a profit. I've worked in a hospital for years, so I see Medicare and Medicaid work on the ground every day. I don't buy any of the hysteria about the government boogie man running health care. It works good enough.

There is no such thing as a perfect health care system. People die. People also get very sick, or old, and still hang on for a long time. It's a fact of life. For the best for the most, I still go with single payer. It's still the best solution for the big flaw in the ACA concept: There are millions of people living below the poverty line who are not going to be able to afford it and will still come to the ERs. Not only that, it will significantly lower the cost of drugs with volume buying.
Government assistance is an essential part of the PPACA. The goal as I see it is to privatize and properly regulate as much as possible in order to reap the benefits of the free market with the same guarantees, and without the shortcomings, of government programs.
The Lone Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 04:20 PM   #27
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,384

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I thought USA had better cure and survival rates for cancer then the EU did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I think we can argue what country has best care till we are blue in the face but it matter little.
That selective bi polar condition can now be covered.....I think.
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 04:25 PM   #28
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,993

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
Government assistance is an essential part of the PPACA. The goal as I see it is to privatize and properly regulate as much as possible in order to reap the benefits of the free market with the same guarantees, and without the shortcomings, of government programs.
there are quite a bit more shortcomings with the private sector vs government. you got to remember profit always comes first in the private sector,which isn't very healthcare friendly.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 04:40 PM   #29
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,291

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
Government assistance is an essential part of the PPACA. The goal as I see it is to privatize and properly regulate as much as possible in order to reap the benefits of the free market with the same guarantees, and without the shortcomings, of government programs.
That's our fundamental difference: I don't believe that healthcare should be a profit making endeavor, beyond the practitioners themselves earning a fair wage for their services.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 04:54 PM   #30
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
Ro the Swiss have had a system just like the PPACA in place for the last 20 years and Massachusetts for the last 10. The PPACA will work too if given a chance.
You have no clue.

Massachussetts has the HIGHEST health care costs in the entire world, with the FASTEST INCREASING healthcare costs anywhere in the entire world. Massachussetts is going in debt FASTER (as a % of GDP) than any state in the US.

The problem with people like you, is you literally have NO IDEA how economics work.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 04:57 PM   #31
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Singapore is where all sustainable health care is headed.

Fortunately, with minor changes (away from Obamacare) US healthcare costs can be diminished rapidly.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 06:11 PM   #32
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
That selective bi polar condition can now be covered.....I think.
It can be covered but i have to pay 250 a month and the first 5000 myself before obamacare does anything about it. Hey but poor people can get some fo free.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #33
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,908

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
According t Bloomberg, the US is ranked 46th, just ahead of Serbia, but just below Iran.
http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data...care-countries
Dude, that's a cost benefit analysis.

"When life comes to death, we're not as thrifty as Serbia!!!"
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #34
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

This Socialist Progressive administration is disgusting.


1. Millions of law-breakers and illegals go to the ER and don't pay for expensive medical service, not because they have an emergent situation...but because they know they will be treated.
2. Rather than FIX the problem, the administration forces everyone to purchase unnecessary insurance.

Instead of holding the non-paying lawbreakers and illegals accountable, Obama demands payment in full from people who aren't even receiving the care to begin with, while offering illegals amnesty, and patting the non-paying lawbreakers on the back.

Absolutely disgusting.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #35
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

It's a lawless regime.

Refuses to enforce immigration laws. But will pursue American taxpayers relentlessly BAMN in order to pay for those illegals.


You will NOT find any other country in the world, where this is happening.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #36
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Have you seen these putrid ads?



This is the Socialist Progressives. Absolutely horrifying.

All of you Democrats who voted for, and continue to defend this filth should be ashamed.

Last edited by pricejj; 11-14-2013 at 07:49 PM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:46 PM   #37
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,384

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Dude, that's a cost benefit analysis.

"When life comes to death, we're not as thrifty as Serbia!!!"

Quote:
the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome
I've cut and pasted the sub headline for you, try again.

Better yet, go find data that puts US health care at the top of the rankings.

Or even......top ten?....top twenty?? Top thirty??

Seriously, why are you attempting to debate a topic you don't understand??
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #38
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,384

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Have you seen these putrid ads?


This is the Socialist Progressives. Absolutely horrifying. This is your tax dollars at work America.

All of you Democrats who voted for, and continue to defend this filth should be ashamed.
Filth??

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Singapore is where all sustainable health care is headed.

Fortunately, with minor changes (away from Obamacare) US healthcare costs can be diminished rapidly.
What we need is government mandated healthcare costs like the system you have championed, Singapore.

From the WHO 2010 report on MSA's.

Quote:

3.1 Singapore
The impact of MSAs in Singapore is difficult to assess due to concurrent reforms in the health sector and lack of information (Hsiao 1995).
What is available indicates that while MSAs were effective in reducing consumption, they were ineffective in containing costs or extending coverage (Barr 2001).
In fact, an initial increase in health expenditure followed the introduction of MSAs, likely due to simultaneous infrastructural upgrades (Hsiao 1995).
Furthermore, MSAs were not successful in introducing price competition as the Singaporean system operates on quality, e.g. physical amenities,
rather than on price or technical measures (Dixon 2002).
As such, high-cost not cost-effective care is provided, with service intensity and costs inflated. Reductions were not seen until the government recognised
supply-side forces and intervened with regulations (Hanvoravongchai 2002). Cost reductions, therefore, cannot be attributed to MSAs but rather
to direct government control (Barr 2001, Hsiao 2001, Dixon 2002).
MSAs also failed to fill coverage gaps in Singapore. Despite their
compulsory nature and a 95% subscription rate in 1992 (Hsaio 1995), MSAs have played a small role in total spending, representing only 8% in 1999,
due to restrictions on their use (Hanvoravongchai 2002). Important population segments remained without adequate coverage, and in
recognition, the government created other forms of risk-pooling and safety
nets for the poor and elderly. Coverage was extended because of these schemes, not MSAs (Barr 2001, Dixon 2002)
http://www.who.int/healthsystems/top...sNo17FINAL.pdf
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 09:26 PM   #39
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,291

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

I see Price has gone full nutso.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 09:53 PM   #40
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,908

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
I've cut and pasted the sub headline for you, try again.

Better yet, go find data that puts US health care at the top of the rankings.

Or even......top ten?....top twenty?? Top thirty??

Seriously, why are you attempting to debate a topic you don't understand??
Says the guy touting a list that puts Libya ahead of Canada or the UK
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 09:59 PM   #41
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

For Lone Bolt, who LOVES Obamacare, because it's just like Massachussetts and Switzerland. PLEASE do us all a favor, and take ECON 101 before you vote next time. Government spending in a private industry (like healthcare, real estate, and education) creates MASSIVE INFLATION.

The U.S. ranks second in health care cost per capita ($8,608), only to be outspent by Switzerland ($9,121).

U.S. Socialist Democrats certainly don't want to be outdone by the Swiss.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:02 PM   #42
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I see Price has gone full nutso.
Shouldn't you be working on your manifesto comrade?
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:16 PM   #43
The Lone Bolt
Ring of Famer
 
The Lone Bolt's Avatar
 
GO CHARGERS!!!!

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Boredom Capital of the Universe (Everett, WA)
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
For Lone Bolt, who LOVES Obamacare, because it's just like Massachussetts and Switzerland. PLEASE do us all a favor, and take ECON 101 before you vote next time. Government spending in a private industry (like healthcare, real estate, and education) creates MASSIVE INFLATION.

The U.S. ranks second in health care cost per capita ($8,608), only to be outspent by Switzerland ($9,121).

U.S. Socialist Democrats certainly don't want to be outdone by the Swiss.
Hmm. So why do Massachusetts citizens surveyed overwhelmingly support the law?

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...der-romneycare

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...der-romneycare

I think that the most important measure of a law's success is the support of those who actually live under it, wouldn't you agree?

The Mass law has been in place for ten years now and there's no support for overturning it (in fact just the opposite). The Swiss law has been in place for twenty years now and there's no support for overturning it. What does that tell you?

Last edited by The Lone Bolt; 11-14-2013 at 10:26 PM..
The Lone Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:20 PM   #44
The Lone Bolt
Ring of Famer
 
The Lone Bolt's Avatar
 
GO CHARGERS!!!!

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Boredom Capital of the Universe (Everett, WA)
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I see Price has gone full nutso.
I agree. I'm actually enjoying the major freak-out by the repubs on this board.
The Lone Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:28 PM   #45
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
Filth??
You lie like your President.

Brit has no clue about Singapore's healthcare, while quoting 20 year old sources (1995), just as Singapore's HSA's began to have a MAJOR impact.

Please come into the 21st century.

That's what I don't get about the Socialists. They refuse to look at sustainable solutions (like Singapore), and continue to look at a century-old broken European model, which doesn't work.

http://www.expatmedicare.com/healthc...e-expats-guide

1. Singapore’s healthcare system is funded by both the government and by individuals and their employers. Government expenditure on healthcare is only 3.5% of its GDP, of which 68.1% comes from private sources.
2. Employees save 20% total of their salary (pre-tax), and Employers contribute 15% towards a fund which can be used for retirement, real estate, education, and health (5% towards health, MEDISAVE).
3. To pay for personal medical expenses, the Government implemented the ‘4M’ framework of Medisave, Medishield, Medifund and Medication Assistance Fund. Implemented in 1984, Medisave can be used to pay for hospital expenses incurred by the individual or his dependent(s). Limits are set and adjustments are made every now and then to ensure sufficient savings to last for a lifetime.
4. 80% of the primary healthcare is made up of some 2,000 private medical and dental clinics (the other 20% taxpayer subsidized polyclinics).
5. The Hospital system consists of 15 public hospitals (where Singaporeans enjoy 80% subsidy), and 21 private hospitals. Singapore's public hospitals are much better, cheaper, and efficient than "government hospitals" in other countries.

Last edited by pricejj; 11-14-2013 at 10:30 PM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:33 PM   #46
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
Hmm. So why do Massachusetts citizens surveyed overwhelmingly support the law?
What does that tell you?
Massachussetts is overwhelmingly Liberal, and enjoys paying much more for their healthcare than anyone else in the world?

I'd much rather pay 3.5% of GDP than 17% of GDP towards highly efficient healthcare wouldn't you?
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:36 PM   #47
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
I agree. I'm actually enjoying the major freak-out by the repubs on this board.
The only ones freaking out are Democrat lawmakers. I have been showing you the best solution (by far), Singapore, ever since President PantsOnFire was elected.

It doesn't matter if you choose to ignore it or not. The entire world is moving that direction, as it's the only sustainable way to both keep costs low for the general populace, and provide a safety net for the poor.

The U.S. is remarkably close to the Singapore model:
1. The first step is to change the 'individual insurance mandate' into an 'individual HSA mandate'. Eliminate 'bronze plans', replace them with 'catasrophic' plans that people can CHOOSE to purchase if they want.
2. Step two is to separate Medicare/Medicaid hospital's and doctor's from the private sector (which may already be happening).
3. Step three: eliminate Obama's ridiculous 'free' procedures for a chosen few, and implement fee-for-service for EVERY procedure (even if it's a small fee). No more hidden costs that are shifted onto other people.
4. Regulate costs in the public (Medicare/Medicaid) hospitals to limit taxpayer liability (like Tricare).
5. Allow drug-reimportation (Democrats have repeatedly voted this down over the last decade).
6. Allow to purchase 'catastrophic' plans (all insurance plans) across state lines.


All the healthcare problems would be solved. Efficiency would be high. Quality would be high. And costs would instantly drop to less than 10% of GDP within 5 years (I guarantee it).

Last edited by pricejj; 11-14-2013 at 10:46 PM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:37 PM   #48
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,908

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
Hmm. So why do Massachusetts citizens surveyed overwhelmingly support the law?

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...der-romneycare

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...der-romneycare

I think that the most important measure of a law's success is the support of those who actually live under it, wouldn't you agree?

The Mass law has been in place for ten years now and there's no support for overturning it (in fact just the opposite). The Swiss law has been in place for twenty years now and there's no support for overturning it. What does that tell you?
Funny, I've been told you can't gauge quality by self-satisfaction surveys. Sad thing is, those poll numbers look very similar to these numbers

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...lth.care.poll/

From long before the "If I Like it, You can Keep It" Care Act was finally passed.

Quote:
"When Americans say they support health care reform, that doesn't mean they want to lose their own coverage or give up their own doctor," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director. "That's something that the Clinton White House didn't realize in 1993."
Whoops.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:43 PM   #49
The Lone Bolt
Ring of Famer
 
The Lone Bolt's Avatar
 
GO CHARGERS!!!!

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Boredom Capital of the Universe (Everett, WA)
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Massachussetts is overwhelmingly Liberal, and enjoys paying much more for their healthcare than anyone else in the world?

I'd much rather pay 3.5% of GDP than 17% of GDP towards highly efficient healthcare wouldn't you?
I see. So the "overwhelmingly liberal" Mass voters are embracing in overwhelming numbers a system based on, not single payer, but the free market.

And you have declared yourself the better judge of the system that they live under and you don't.

Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing...


BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE


SNARF SNARF HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Giggle.... giggle... snarf...







OK I'm done now.
The Lone Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 10:48 PM   #50
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
I see. So the "overwhelmingly liberal" Mass voters are embracing in overwhelming numbers a system based on, not single payer, but the free market.
The U.S. system is not free-market. Government spending (Medicare, Medicaid) in the private system has INFLATED healthcare costs through the roof.

...just like in housing....just like in college tuition.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Denver Broncos