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Old 11-26-2013, 07:38 PM   #126
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Bull****.

This is clearly visible on the slow loop video that's available just about everywhere.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:16 PM   #127
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqzJ...e_gdata_player

Im no forensic analyst but I can see on the Zapruder film the right front of JFK's skull blown open. That is an exit wound. Full metal jacket bullets tend not to cause that type of violent expansion. Seems like a completely different type of round than the bullet that traversed the president's superior thorax, traveling through the governor, and found intact with minimal damage. It seems like common sense to me that the headshot was a hollow point or similar round. It also seems like common sense to me that a hollow point round would have expanded and caused a devastating exit wound on the anterior chest or neck of the president. I dont understand how anyone with a basic concet of terminal ballistic effects can think otherwise. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but those were two markedly different bullets.
Exactly. you should watch the show and book I cited above. It goes over all this. There were bullet fragments all throughout the brain that was clear as day in the X-Ray by witnesses. The X-Ray that the Secret Service took and was never seen again.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:04 AM   #128
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Remember your own words the next time you're arrogant enough to dismiss every engineering expert when discussing 911.
Astonishing.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:08 AM   #129
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Emergency room doctors frequently see gunshot wounds. They know an entry wound when they see one.

The entry wound in JFK's throat means he was shot from the front. End of story.

You clowns ought to be asking: Why did the Warren Commission ignore the doctors at Parkland? Why did the autopsy doctors not consult with the doctors at Parkland? Why were the doctors at Parkland told to keep quiet?

Of course, we know the answer.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:13 AM   #130
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Emergency room doctors frequently see gunshot wounds. They know an entry wound when they see one.

The entry wound in JFK's throat means he was shot from the front. End of story.

You clowns ought to be asking: Why did the Warren Commission ignore the doctors at Parkland? Why did the autopsy doctors not consult with the doctors at Parkland? Why were the doctors at Parkland told to keep quiet?

Of course, we know the answer.
There was no entry wound anywhere on JFK's front because all the bullets came from behind him. I can literally see them in the enhanced film.

The Warren Commission and it's finding are no longer valid because they didn't have the tools to analyse the evidence that we have today.

Where is your proof someone told them to be "quiet". Is there a signed letter from the government? A statement from the Government?

Nope...because no one told them to be quiet.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:28 AM   #131
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Astonishing.
I knew 'hypocritical irony' would fly over your head, apparently even spelling it out for you has the same effect.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #132
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I knew 'hypocritical irony' would fly over your head, apparently even spelling it out for you has the same effect.
Well you should know by now that the only experts with credibility are the ones that agree with Gaffney (even if they're in a tiny minority).
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:36 PM   #133
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Well you should know by now that the only experts with credibility are the ones that agree with Gaffney (even if they're in a tiny minority).
Dr Charles Crenshaw was the emergency room doctor who cut the tracheotomy in JFK's throat at Parkland Hospital on Nov 22, 1963.

Though the Parkland doctors who examined and tended to JFK that day were told to keep quiet -- he had the courage to write a book about that day.

I read Dr Crenshaw's book when it was first published in 1992. In it he says that ALL of the doctors who were present recognized the throat wound as an entry wound. All of them.

This explodes the lone gunman cover story for what it is -- a big lie -- because it means JFK was shot from the front. Ergo, there had to be at least two gunmen.

What about this don't you understand?


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Old 11-27-2013, 01:37 PM   #134
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Well you should know by now that the only experts with credibility are the ones that agree with Gaffney (even if they're in a tiny minority).
Gaffney's agreeable expert.

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Old 11-27-2013, 01:39 PM   #135
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This sort of reaction raises the question -- is there an honest man left in America?

Is there even one honest man left??
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:49 PM   #136
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This sort of reaction raises the question -- is there an honest man left in America?

Is there even one honest man left??
It sure as FYUCK ain't you.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:25 PM   #137
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Bent? Surely you jest.

Here's a photo from the Warren Commission Report -- of the magic bullet that supposedly passed through JFK and Connally. It's nearly pristine.

Bullets that hit bony tissue are ALWAYS badly deformed. As the man sad, "This dog don' hunt.."

MHG
Full metal jackets do not really deform. Here is a picture of several bullets that were recovered from various elephants and buffalo. You don't have much experience with firearms do you? The head shot to me on JFK looked an awful lot like a .224 cal bullet traveling at high speed to me.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF2918.jpg (34.6 KB, 27 views)
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:39 PM   #138
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Full metal jackets do not really deform. Here is a picture of several bullets that were recovered from various elephants and buffalo. You don't have much experience with firearms do you? The head shot to me on JFK looked an awful lot like a .224 cal bullet traveling at high speed to me.
gaffe has never his let mega-colossal ignorance stop him from preaching at us and calling us clueless dupes and a-holes.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:07 PM   #139
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That last shot on the Zapruder film looks to me like Kennedy got shot in the face blowing his brains out the back of his skull. However, I'm no expert.

I've always thought there was more than one gunman involved, but I didn't believe it was some huge conspiracy, moreso that someone wanted Kennedy dead, and that Ruby's actions weren't the act of a patriot who was pissed off that someone shot the president. Ruby was sent to shut Oswald up.
Is that the official story? It's just a coincidence that Ruby was also a strip club owner with ties to the mob.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:07 AM   #140
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First bullet strikes the president in the upper back, leaves the lower anterior neck, strikes the governor in the chest/arm/thigh. You can clearly see both men painfully wince at the exact same time. You can clearly see the president grabbing the anterior neck and slump forward immediately afterward and does not change position or wince again until the fatal head shot.

The wounds caused by the first bullet were all described as neat and clean. This is despite striking bone in the president's spine and the governor's chest/wrist. All of these wounds were survivable with the exception of creating a chest wall defect called a sucking chest wound in the governor, which is easily treated with a ball-valve effect dressing / mechanical ventilation / chest tube. This is what a full metal jacket round does -- it penetrates and does not expand. It often pencils through tissue causing little tissue damage to surrounding structures unless it tumbles. Fatal wounds are certainly possible but it requires direct penetration of a critical structure like the brain, spinal cord, heart, or major blood vessel.

A full metal jacket exit wound could easily be mistaken for an entry wound. Entry wounds are assumed to be small / neat with the exception of burn marks / gunpowder stippling for close proximity muzzle blast effects. The president had a small / neat wound on his upper back and a small / neat wound on his anterior neck that was obscured with a surgical incision.

The headshot caused a massive, explosive, expanding wound. The outward explosive effect is clearly seen towards the front right of the skull. This is compatible with a hollow point or similar bullet striking from the rear. The bullet causing this wound causes a plainly visible effect that is in direct opposition to the first shot. How anyone can look at the Zapruper film with any basic knowledge of terminal ballistics and believe otherwise just amazes me.

I'm not saying there were multiple shooters from behind. I'm just saying there were two different types of bullets causing the exact types of wounds they were designed to cause.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:39 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
Emergency room doctors frequently see gunshot wounds. They know an entry wound when they see one.

The entry wound in JFK's throat means he was shot from the front. End of story.

You clowns ought to be asking: Why did the Warren Commission ignore the doctors at Parkland? Why did the autopsy doctors not consult with the doctors at Parkland? Why were the doctors at Parkland told to keep quiet?

Of course, we know the answer.
Explain to me how an entry wound is determined. I'm just a surgeon who has taken care of more gun shot victims than I can remember. Truly curious as to how someone can definatively tell an entrance from an exit caused by a non-expanding missile fired from a distance beyond point blank range.
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:03 AM   #142
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It is not uncommon for clinicians such as emergency department physicians or trauma surgeons to misinterpret the directionality of perforating wounds[34] ; therefore, it is generally preferable for such specialists to defer such interpretation to the forensic pathologist, at least in fatal cases.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...iew#aw2aab6c20
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:11 AM   #143
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First bullet strikes the president in the upper back, leaves the lower anterior neck, strikes the governor in the chest/arm/thigh. You can clearly see both men painfully wince at the exact same time. You can clearly see the president grabbing the anterior neck and slump forward immediately afterward and does not change position or wince again until the fatal head shot.

The wounds caused by the first bullet were all described as neat and clean. This is despite striking bone in the president's spine and the governor's chest/wrist. All of these wounds were survivable with the exception of creating a chest wall defect called a sucking chest wound in the governor, which is easily treated with a ball-valve effect dressing / mechanical ventilation / chest tube. This is what a full metal jacket round does -- it penetrates and does not expand. It often pencils through tissue causing little tissue damage to surrounding structures unless it tumbles. Fatal wounds are certainly possible but it requires direct penetration of a critical structure like the brain, spinal cord, heart, or major blood vessel.

A full metal jacket exit wound could easily be mistaken for an entry wound. Entry wounds are assumed to be small / neat with the exception of burn marks / gunpowder stippling for close proximity muzzle blast effects. The president had a small / neat wound on his upper back and a small / neat wound on his anterior neck that was obscured with a surgical incision.

The headshot caused a massive, explosive, expanding wound. The outward explosive effect is clearly seen towards the front right of the skull. This is compatible with a hollow point or similar bullet striking from the rear. The bullet causing this wound causes a plainly visible effect that is in direct opposition to the first shot. How anyone can look at the Zapruper film with any basic knowledge of terminal ballistics and believe otherwise just amazes me.

I'm not saying there were multiple shooters from behind. I'm just saying there were two different types of bullets causing the exact types of wounds they were designed to cause.
Come on now that just doesn't fit the conspiracy theories. I agree with your post completely. Reading through this thread that I missed before I don't know how people can claim they see the head shot on the back of the head when it is clear where the kill shot came from.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:17 AM   #144
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The headshot caused a massive, explosive, expanding wound. The outward explosive effect is clearly seen towards the front right of the skull. This is compatible with a hollow point or similar bullet striking from the rear. The bullet causing this wound causes a plainly visible effect that is in direct opposition to the first shot. How anyone can look at the Zapruper film with any basic knowledge of terminal ballistics and believe otherwise just amazes me.

I'm not saying there were multiple shooters from behind. I'm just saying there were two different types of bullets causing the exact types of wounds they were designed to cause.
High energy impacts (like from the rifle used by LHO) create significant hydrostatic pressure in soft tissue, even if they pass cleanly through. Combine that with a fractured skull from the initial impact and you have an exploding wound like Kennedy's. No hollow point required.

There are basically two ways to generate a lot of hydrostatic pressure. A relatively high energy round (like used on Kennedy) or a relative low energy round (like a .45 auto) with an expanding bullet.

Anyone that's had to finish off a large game animal with a head shot has seen that exact wound pattern.

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Old 12-01-2013, 10:25 AM   #145
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High energy impacts (like from the rifle used by LHO) create significant hydrostatic pressure in soft tissue. Combine that with a fractured skull and you have an exploding wound like Kennedy's. No hollow point required.

Anyone that's had to finish off a large game animal with a head shot has seen that exact wound pattern.
With a soft point, hollow point, or similarly expanding missile. Not with a full metal jacket. And why didn't the first bullet (which struck spinal column, ribs, wrist while traveling through two people) expand and fragment in a similar fashion?
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:40 AM   #146
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With a soft point, hollow point, or similarly expanding missile. Not with a full metal jacket. And why didn't the first bullet (which struck spinal column, ribs, wrist while traveling through two people) expand and fragment in a similar fashion?
LHO was using a relatively high powered round at close range. It didn't need a hollow point to generate significant amounts of hydrostatic pressure. You only need an expanding bullet if you're using a relatively low power round, like from a pistol.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:49 AM   #147
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LHO was using a relatively high powered round at close range. It didn't need a hollow point to generate significant amounts of hydrostatic pressure. You only need an expanding bullet if you're using a relatively low power round, like from a pistol.
Close range? High velocity? As defined by whom? The 6.5 carcano is not typically considered a high velocity round. Close range is typically defined as less than 6 inches, which can be indicated by muzzle blast effects to the victim.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:49 AM   #148
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High energy impacts (like from the rifle used by LHO) create significant hydrostatic pressure in soft tissue, even if they pass cleanly through. Combine that with a fractured skull from the initial impact and you have an exploding wound like Kennedy's. No hollow point required.

There are basically two ways to generate a lot of hydrostatic pressure. A relatively high energy round (like used on Kennedy) or a relative low energy round (like a .45 auto) with an expanding bullet.

Anyone that's had to finish off a large game animal with a head shot has seen that exact wound pattern.
The 6.5 carcano is a relatively underpowered round and using full metal jackets would pretty much just pencil hole through whatever soft tissue it hit. I have finished off several big game animals at close range with my 300 win mag using various soft points and the bullets are built stout enough that they only make big holes if contacting bone. Now it is possible that the carcano stiking the skull at a certain angle caused basically the side of his head to pop off but it would not cause the bullet he was using to fragment.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:50 AM   #149
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From what I've read, the ballistics reports on Kennedy suggests that the bullet in the head shot tumbled (rather than passing straight through), which is a very common "feature" of rounds designed for military purposes (e.g. the round LHO was using).

For example, a 5.6 NATO is designed to tumble and fracture INSTEAD of expanding like a hollow or soft point, as expanding rounds are banned for military use.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:54 AM   #150
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Dr. Michael Kurtz has done considerable research on the wound ballistics aspects of the case. Dr. Kurtz argues that the skull fracturing and bullet fragmentation visible on the autopsy x-rays indicate high-velocity ammunition struck the president's skull, not low-velocity or medium-velocity ammunition as supposed by the single-assassin theory:

The x-rays of the skull reveal massive multiple fractures of the skull on both the right and left sides. There is extensive fragmentation of the bone, and several pieces of the skull are missing. This type of damage is not produced by ammunition like that allegedly used by Oswald. Copper-jacketed bullet commonly penetrate straight through objects, leaving only small tracks and causing little in the way of bone fractures. Wounds ballistics tests performed for the commission confirmed this. Bullets from Oswald's rifle, from a .257 Roberts soft-point hunting rifle, and from a United States Army M-14 rifle were fired into blocks of gelatin covered with masonite. The Mannlicher-Carcano bullet went straight through the gelatin, leaving a tiny track and causing little damage to the substance. The soft-point hunting bullet expanded rapidly upon entering and considerably more damage. The M-14 bullet caused more destruction than the others. . . .

The skull x-rays also depicted extensive bullet fragmentation within the skull. This type of fragmentation is not typical of full-jacketed military ammunition. That ammunition was specifically designed to remain intact when passing through a body. Lead, or hollow-point, ammunition is the type that causes fragmentation. . . .

World War II films of men being shot in the head by Mannlicher-Carcano rifles reveal absolutely no massive explosion of brain tissue and also show quite graphically that the men invariably fell in the same direction as the trajectory of the bullets that struck them. Autopsy photographs and x-rays of some of the victims of Mannlicher-Carcano-inflicted head wounds also showed no bullet fragmentation, no serious disruption of brain tissue, and very small exit wounds.


http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/forensic.htm
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