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Old 04-28-2014, 11:20 AM   #401
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So which of those stats are biased??

The Atlantic article is in line with data readily available, but go ahead and show data that repudiates the premise.

The cost of healthcare data is well known and accurate.

The wait times for a Dr's appointment are also in line with other findings; in the Merritt Hawkins survey, for instance.

Feel free to provide alternatives instead of the usual dismissal of anything that doesn't fit the partisan narrative.
Well first off, I've previously been told (accusingly) that opinion surveys in health care studies are next to useless. Might've even been you that said so.

Secondly, it's funny how they pooh-pooh our superiority in specialist access with the argument that more people see general practitioners.

Well yes, that's true. But routine office visits are easy. Socialized systems emphasize them because their system is ostensibly managed 'by the people' and appearing reasonably responsive to most people on a routine basis is just good (and cheap) public relations.

But contrary to Progressive Mythology, the problem with healthcare access has little to do with routine GP office visits. That's cheap and easy. 90% of people here could see a doctor today for less than it would cost to have their cars' transmissions flushed. The real costs come in specialty care, diagnostics, and medications.

That's where socialized systems start queuing people. Because they have budgets. Your study works overtime to ignore that 800lb gorilla to sell a story they've already predetermined they want to arrive at.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:35 PM   #402
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Well first off, I've previously been told (accusingly) that opinion surveys in health care studies are next to useless. Might've even been you that said so.

Secondly, it's funny how they pooh-pooh our superiority in specialist access with the argument that more people see general practitioners.

Well yes, that's true. But routine office visits are easy. Socialized systems emphasize them because their system is ostensibly managed 'by the people' and appearing reasonably responsive to most people on a routine basis is just good (and cheap) public relations.

But contrary to Progressive Mythology, the problem with healthcare access has little to do with routine GP office visits. That's cheap and easy. 90% of people here could see a doctor today for less than it would cost to have their cars' transmissions flushed. The real costs come in specialty care, diagnostics, and medications.

That's where socialized systems start queuing people. Because they have budgets. Your study works overtime to ignore that 800lb gorilla to sell a story they've already predetermined they want to arrive at.
My response was to waiting for a Dr's appointment.

As for the usefulness of studies, they all have some natural bias because of data sets. But that's true of any data driven, wide ranging study. Dismissing them because of their perceived 'liberal' bias makes no sense.
Most academic studies and surveys are headed by 'Liberals,' but it doesn't follow that the data is biased. No more than a Dr's political leanings affect their treatments or diagnosis.

Stories and studies can be true, even if Fox is reporting them. Opinions and editorials.....not so much.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:07 PM   #403
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My response was to waiting for a Dr's appointment.

As for the usefulness of studies, they all have some natural bias because of data sets. But that's true of any data driven, wide ranging study. Dismissing them because of their perceived 'liberal' bias makes no sense.
Most academic studies and surveys are headed by 'Liberals,' but it doesn't follow that the data is biased. No more than a Dr's political leanings affect their treatments or diagnosis.

Stories and studies can be true, even if Fox is reporting them. Opinions and editorials.....not so much.
I didn't dismiss it. I only pointed out that you were (once again) dismissing one perspective as agenda-driven, while bolstering your argument with a study cut from basically the same cloth (albeit dyed blue rather than red )
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:16 PM   #404
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Funny when Brit compares apples to apples but America has like 300 million people, and the countries he compares us to have 20-100 million. Also we have a lot more immigrants and poor people dragging system down. Most of those countries Britt compares us to are not that easy to become a resident of, or a citizen.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:47 PM   #405
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I didn't dismiss it. I only pointed out that you were (once again) dismissing one perspective as agenda-driven, while bolstering your argument with a study cut from basically the same cloth (albeit dyed blue rather than red )
If you really think what I posted was 'cut from the same cloth' as one of Barry's daily rants, then you're being disingenuous.

What I posted was one survey and referenced another that is often cited, by all means post a factual rebuttal.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:22 PM   #406
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...its likely that most Americans are gauging their understanding of how well — or poorly — Obamacare is going from the news coverage. Most Americans already have health insurance, and aren’t shopping on the exchanges for new policies. So even if the Obamacare experience improves, most people won’t necessarily notice.
http://www.vox.com/2014/4/29/5661696...-is-a-disaster
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:51 PM   #407
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Funny when Brit compares apples to apples but America has like 300 million people, and the countries he compares us to have 20-100 million. Also we have a lot more immigrants and poor people dragging system down. Most of those countries Britt compares us to are not that easy to become a resident of, or a citizen.
But one can't use logic. It's all about feeling good about doing something regardless of the facts showing otherwise.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:23 AM   #408
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Most people signing up for Obamacare are paying their premiums, insurers told a Congressional subcommittee Wednesday.

Though it may take weeks or months for the final payment figures to be calculated, rates are running in the 80% to 90% range, several major insurers said.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/news...tml?hpt=hp_bn3


Oh wait. Obama's just cooking the books again. Right?
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:20 PM   #409
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more bad news for righties..

New Report: $3 Billion in Total Consumer Benefits from Affordable Care Act's Medical Loss Ratio Provision

Review of Payment Data Finds Consumer Rebates Dropped by Half in 2013 to $513 Million, as Insurers Comply with the Law; Insurers Spending Less Than 1% of Premiums on Quality Improvement

May 13, 2014

A new analysis finds American consumers saved billions in 2011 and 2012 thanks to a key provision of the Affordable Care Act.

The report from The Commonwealth Fund released Tuesday finds the medical loss ratio provision, which caps profits for health insurance companies, benefited consumers by about $3 billion over the past two years through a combination of rebates from insurance companies and reduced overhead spending.

The law’s provision limits insurance companies to spending a minimum of 80-85% of premiums specifically on treatment and medical costs, rather than overhead and profits.


The rebate receipts sent to consumers hit $1 billion in 2011 and about $500 million in 2012, an indication that insurance providers successfully shifted business models to fit the new spending requirements. In addition to the rebates provided to consumers, insurers reduced profits and spending on general overhead by about $1.4 billion, the report finds.

“The medical loss ratio requirement of the Affordable Care Act creates a higher-value insurance product for consumers,” said The Commonwealth Fund President David Blumenthal said in the report. “It ensures that a substantial portion of their premium dollar pays for medical care, as opposed to administrative costs and profits. It also encourages insurers to improve the care their customers receive, by investing in initiatives that will help achieve better outcomes for patients.”

Critics of the provision have argued it would force smaller insurance companies out of the market, but the report concludes so far that “hasn’t substantially reduced competition in health insurance markets or consumers’ choice of insurance plans.”

The report finds rebates dropped most in the large-group market, where they fell 71% from 2011 to 2012. For those in the individual market rebates decreased by roughly 50% and in the small-group market they dropped by 30% over the same time period.

The report also found total profits in the insurance industry decreased by about $300 million in 2012, with group insurance still bringing in 2.5-3% profit.

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/...umers-billions
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:55 AM   #410
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:44 PM   #411
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The next boondoggle is the fact many people lied about income to recieve a bigger subsidy. Govt not sure how many but up to 1 million. Wait until those people get an extra bill next yr. They will be pissed when they find out they owe govt 1200 bucks or something lol.

Trust me people have a lot more to get pissed about lol.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:58 PM   #412
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The next boondoggle is the fact many people lied about income to recieve a bigger subsidy. Govt not sure how many but up to 1 million. Wait until those people get an extra bill next yr. They will be pissed when they find out they owe govt 1200 bucks or something lol.

Trust me people have a lot more to get pissed about lol.
Yep, that and the employee mandate is coming too. But it's wonderful, as long as you don't nee to use it.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:49 PM   #413
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They had no way to double check people incomes this first year. I guess going forward they will match it up to you IRS records.

Going to be something to see.
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Old 05-18-2014, 08:17 PM   #414
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As if they were ever going to come up with their own plan.

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Looks like the GOP Obamacare plan is dead
Some Republicans say the party errred by not offering an alternative to the Affordable Care Act.

........

"I think one of the most unfortunate things my party did the last three years was not offer an alternative to health care ... I wish we had an alternative," Ross said. "For the next six months, we're going to go into an election, knowing that we're not going to do anything to address health care."

Some Republicans say the law is here to stay -- beyond the midterm elections even if they take control of the Senate.

"The chance of repealing Obamacare is zero," Rep. Mike Rogers (R-MI) said at a Rotary Club in his district on Tuesday, according to The Daily Home.
http://money.msn.com/saving-money-ti...e-plan-is-dead
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Old 05-18-2014, 08:50 PM   #415
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Just curious Lone Bolt. What did you gain by the ACA? Did you have to apply for it on healthcare.gov? Do you have insurance now when you before you didn't? If you have insurance through your work, did you go to the website to see how much it would cost for the same coverage? Would it have cost more or less?

I have great insurance through my work, until January 1 2015. But I went to the healthcare.gov site just to see what my insurance would cost me there. I laughed when I saw for the Platnium it would cost me over 900 bucks a month. Bad thing was, my current insurance was still better. My current deductibles would have been a tad lower than what the ACA had to offer.

So just curious on what you gained or lost since you're pimping the ACA up as hard as you are. And don't give me the BS line that you just believe everyone deserves to have healthcare insurance regardless.
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Old 05-18-2014, 09:20 PM   #416
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Just curious Lone Bolt. What did you gain by the ACA? Did you have to apply for it on healthcare.gov? Do you have insurance now when you before you didn't? If you have insurance through your work, did you go to the website to see how much it would cost for the same coverage? Would it have cost more or less?

I have great insurance through my work, until January 1 2015. But I went to the healthcare.gov site just to see what my insurance would cost me there. I laughed when I saw for the Platnium it would cost me over 900 bucks a month. Bad thing was, my current insurance was still better. My current deductibles would have been a tad lower than what the ACA had to offer.

So just curious on what you gained or lost since you're pimping the ACA up as hard as you are. And don't give me the BS line that you just believe everyone deserves to have healthcare insurance regardless.
Personally I haven't gained or lost anything. My coverage is through my employer and it hasn't changed significantly.

I've been a big supporter of HC reform for about two decades. The PPACA is based on other models that have proven to work in the real world. If we didn't already have real world examples of similar systems producing results I wouldn't be such a big supporter.

And yeah yeah yeah, we can spend time arguing the merits of Romneycare and/or Swiss Care. Been down that road here already. Not interested in repeating myself.
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Old 05-19-2014, 02:04 PM   #417
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No I wasn't wanting to argue about anything, I just wanted to see your personal side of it.

I've talked to a lot of people from many different jobs, and I'm just amazed at all the changes the ACA has had on those people and myself. Some good, some bad.
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:42 AM   #418
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:37 AM   #419
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We need a modern day Guy Fawkes here in the good old USA.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:17 AM   #420
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We need a modern day Guy Fawkes here in the good old USA.
They need a really big hose to clean out DC. In the meantime:

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Old 06-13-2014, 05:39 PM   #421
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:40 AM   #422
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A friend of mine, his wife who doesn't work, has her own insurance since he her husband's family insurance plan at his work is way too expensive, found out her insurance will be cancelled at the end of this year. And trying to see other options, is finding the cheapest insurance is double what she was paying before, the rest are triple. This is a family making like around 40,000/year. Yeah, just soaking the "rich" Obama. Man, you blind loyalists are stupid.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:07 PM   #423
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Default Oval Office? Or Oral Orifice?

Impeachment of Bush and Obama

By Professor Francis Boyle

As Democratic Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Richest Representative of the One Percent in the House of Representatives, said: “Impeachment is off the table.” Nevertheless, Insouciant Californians still send The bought-and paid-for hireling to Washington

In my day if an experienced professor of international and constitutional law, such as University of Illinois Professor Francis A. Boyle, called for impeachment of a president, it was a serious situation for the president. But no more. Today an American president can ride roughshod over constitutional lawyers, the US Constitution and US statutory law without any danger of impeachment. To avoid impeachment today, all a president has to do is to avoid having a sexual affair with a White House intern in the Oval Office, or is that the Oral Orifice.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle38883.htm
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:14 PM   #424
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Don't miss the above article, which describes the vigorous debate over whether to impeach Bush or not in 2002 -- in the run up to the 2003 war.

Francis Boyle gets the final word:

"Both political parties are irredeemably evil. Neither has any redeeming virtues.

If Americans cannot find leadership that can survive assassination, either by media slander or by SWAT Team bullet, America is lost.

How would you place your bet? Is America lost or is America the salt of the earth, the exceptional, indispensable people chosen by History to enjoy hegemony over Earth?"

You decide. Will you sit on your hands like W*gs and Brit and Ro -- or act!?
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:42 PM   #425
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America isn't much different then we have ever been Gaff. Look at how we earned our land lol. Cmon we pillaged, started wars and stretched our country to both oceans. Since then it's been much of the same. Maybe some time in after WW1 when the country was sort of isolated but then again after ww2 heavy handed to be quite honest. Not always fair either but IMO America has always felt better to have it be our mistake then what it could turn into if we stay out of the worlds issues.
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