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Old 04-27-2014, 11:39 AM   #376
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I wouldn't consider myself an "Obama loyalist." But I think you'd have to be pretty naive not to suspect that many employers are cutting costs and using Obamacare as a convenient scapegoat.
how else do you explain the skyrocketing costs to employers then?
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:45 AM   #377
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how else do you explain the skyrocketing costs to employers then?
Which and what percentage of employers? How do you define "skyrocketing?" Sources/links? Are they shopping around (see the above quote)? Are they located in GOP states that have actively undermined and sabotaged Obamacare at every turn? Are their premium increases consistent with trends that predate Obamacare?

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Old 04-27-2014, 12:06 PM   #378
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Which and what percentage of employers? How do you define "skyrocketing?" Sources/links? Are they shopping around (see the above quote)? Are they located in GOP states that have actively undermined and sabotaged Obamacare at every turn? Are their premium increases consistent with trends that predate Obamacare?
how about post 360? As far as percentages, I don't know. But the fact that people are losing coverage, regardless of the reasons, is something the ACA is not supposed to do.

Ultimately, it remains to be seen how the ACA will pan out. If it's like Medicare and Medicaid, the cost will keep going up and up and up and up. I'm talking about the cost to the federal government to maintain it, not just the premiums to the end user.
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:58 PM   #379
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There are several reasons why the cost of health care has gone up and up over the last 10 years or so. Inflation is one reason (feds keeps printing money, STOP), but the main reason that I've argued over and over and over is this: the health insurance companies are a cartel, here's a good explanation: http://www.oddlytogether.com/post/16...re-the-problem

1. stop protecting this cartel
2. allow health insurance companies to sell across state lines
3. cap the amount of $ doctors can be sued for via lawsuits
4. all hospitals should be non profit

those 4 very simple changes would change everything.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:49 PM   #380
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OK so what was the explanation?
Are you blind? I've already stated what they said. Want me to draw you a picture?


Let me guess, my company is lying to us right? They are a multi billion dollar corp that has been giving their employees the same top of the line medical insurance with very small yearly increases in cost for the past 15+ years, but the ACA was just their way out right? Get out of here with that shlt.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:54 PM   #381
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How bout this. I am paying 300 dollars a month right now for my BCBS of Michigan with vision included which cost me nothing. Without the ACA I would keep the same insurance and my cost would go up to about 302 dollars for next year. With the ACA if my company decided to eat the new cost and pass that down to us, the same insurance would run me 800 dollars a month, with no vision included.


This is for a family of 4.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:48 PM   #382
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How bout this. I am paying 300 dollars a month right now for my BCBS of Michigan with vision included which cost me nothing. Without the ACA I would keep the same insurance and my cost would go up to about 302 dollars for next year. With the ACA if my company decided to eat the new cost and pass that down to us, the same insurance would run me 800 dollars a month, with no vision included.


This is for a family of 4.
Here's what you said:

Quote:
Then they showed the increase they were going to be hit with starting FY 2015. The increase was way too much in their eyes to justify keeping that great insurance.
But you're still not offering your company's rationale for the increase. All I'm getting is they just blamed it on "Obamacare" and left it at that.

Did they shop around for a better plan? Did their insurance carrier explain the increase? I'm still not getting an explanation beyond just "Obamacare."
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:53 PM   #383
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Here's what you said:



But you're still not offering your company's rationale for the increase. All I'm getting is they just blamed it on "Obamacare" and left it at that.

Did they shop around for a better plan? Did their insurance carrier explain the increase? I'm still not getting an explanation beyond just "Obamacare."
The ACA is the reason BCBS of Michigan was going to increase their rate to my company. I just told you we saw the numbers for a before and after the ACA on what my company was going to have to pay. Yes they shopped around, but it's not exactly easy to find an insurance company that will cover thousands of workers all across the US from different states and hundreds in Canada. What they are going to next year is what they found to be the most affordable to them and us. Their wasn't much to choose from.


Now if you need more information, then I suggest the next time we have a Town Hall Meeting with our executives, maybe you can show up.


But I guess this is just where you put all the blame on the insurance company.
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:56 PM   #384
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How bout this. I am paying 300 dollars a month right now for my BCBS of Michigan with vision included which cost me nothing. Without the ACA I would keep the same insurance and my cost would go up to about 302 dollars for next year. With the ACA if my company decided to eat the new cost and pass that down to us, the same insurance would run me 800 dollars a month, with no vision included.


This is for a family of 4.
My wife had a Blue Cross policy that was cancelled earlier this year. She stayed with Blue Cross and picked a plan where the premium would be about the same ($390 a month with a higher deductible). She had knee surgery last week and we will pay 5K out of our pocket before the insurance kicks in, but not a problem for us because we have a HSA (tax deductible medical saving account) to cover the 5K.

What will a young family that is struggling to make the monthly premium do when they need to use the insurance for routine medical visits and will need to cover a 5K per person deductible? This will be a train wreck for most young families.
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:31 PM   #385
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The ACA is the reason BCBS of Michigan was going to increase their rate to my company. I just told you we saw the numbers for a before and after the ACA on what my company was going to have to pay. Yes they shopped around, but it's not exactly easy to find an insurance company that will cover thousands of workers all across the US from different states and hundreds in Canada. What they are going to next year is what they found to be the most affordable to them and us. Their wasn't much to choose from.


Now if you need more information, then I suggest the next time we have a Town Hall Meeting with our executives, maybe you can show up.


But I guess this is just where you put all the blame on the insurance company.
So you had a town meeting, your Corporate CEO told you that insurance costs were going up and it was because of Obamacare with no further explanation. Didn't say how Obamacare was causing that increase. Just "Obamacare." That's it.

And you bought it. No questions asked.





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Old 04-27-2014, 05:48 PM   #386
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So you had a town meeting, your Corporate CEO told you that insurance costs were going up and it was because of Obamacare with no further explanation. Didn't say how Obamacare was causing that increase. Just "Obamacare." That's it.

And you bought it. No questions asked.






OMG, you can't read at all.
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:54 PM   #387
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OMG, you can't read at all.
OMG you can't seem to be able to read what you yourself wrote.

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I just told you we saw the numbers for a before and after the ACA on what my company was going to have to pay.
In YOUR OWN WORDS you were shown some numbers, and the increase was blamed on Obamacare -- period, end of story. Where's your (imaginary) detailed explanation of the increase? You keep pretending you have one. Where is it?
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:01 PM   #388
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After looking over my policy, I was wrong about my yearly deductible.

Individual is $250
Family is $500


Max out of pocket expense is $2,250 Individual and $4,500 for family.


Also, this insurance covers hearing aids which my youngest son has to have. The new insurance will not cover it.


I pay $152 Biweekly.


But I can kiss that good bye after this year.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:05 PM   #389
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After looking over my policy, I was wrong about my yearly deductible.

Individual is $250
Family is $500


Max out of pocket expense is $2,250 Individual and $4,500 for family.


Also, this insurance covers hearing aids which my youngest son has to have. The new insurance will not cover it.


I pay $152 Biweekly.


But I can kiss that good bye after this year.
Hey I'm sorry to hear your insurance is taking a hit. I just think you're too quick to blame Obamacare without conclusive evidence.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:08 PM   #390
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OMG you can't seem to be able to read what you yourself wrote.



In YOUR OWN WORDS you were shown some numbers, and the increase was blamed on Obamacare -- period, end of story. Where's your (imaginary) detailed explanation of the increase? You keep pretending you have one. Where is it?


Oh I'm sorry, let me call up to Michigan and tell them to send someone to this thread to post the slides just so you can see them.


YES the ACA is the main reason for the increase in what our health insurance was going to cost. Who else do you think it is? The tooth fairy?


Ohhhhh you just think the company decided to lie about the numbers just to save a buck. Got ya.


It's a good thing we have this thing called a Union down here that actually looked into this to make sure the company wasn't just trying to pull one over on us. United Steal Workers. They actually are worth something sometimes.


If you want to see all the paper work on this, then bring your ass down here and request it. Otherwise, I could give two shlts if you believe it or not.


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Old 04-27-2014, 06:18 PM   #391
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Oh I'm sorry, let me call up to Michigan and tell them to send someone to this thread to post the slides just so you can see them.


YES the ACA is the main reason for the increase in what our health insurance was going to cost. Who else do you think it is? The tooth fairy?


Ohhhhh you just think the company decided to lie about the numbers just to save a buck. Got ya.


It's a good thing we have this thing called a Union down here that actually looked into this to make sure the company wasn't just trying to pull one over on us. United Steal Workers. They actually are worth something sometimes.


If you want to see all the paper work on this, then bring your ass down here and request it. Otherwise, I could give two shlts if you believe it or not.

Well without details your claim that Obamacare is costing you more and giving you less is worthless. When you have more to back it up feel free to post it.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:20 PM   #392
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Oh I'm sorry, let me call up to Michigan and tell them to send someone to this thread to post the slides just so you can see them.


YES the ACA is the main reason for the increase in what our health insurance was going to cost. Who else do you think it is? The tooth fairy?


Ohhhhh you just think the company decided to lie about the numbers just to save a buck. Got ya.


It's a good thing we have this thing called a Union down here that actually looked into this to make sure the company wasn't just trying to pull one over on us. United Steal Workers. They actually are worth something sometimes.


If you want to see all the paper work on this, then bring your ass down here and request it. Otherwise, I could give two shlts if you believe it or not.


Healthcare has traditionally gone up about 7-10% per year for the last decade! and I work for a large corp. What would your premiums have been this year if no Obama care?
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Old 04-27-2014, 07:29 PM   #393
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My doctor won't accept any of the Obamacare plans.
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Old 04-27-2014, 07:32 PM   #394
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My doctor won't accept any of the Obamacare plans.
But that can't be. Obama wouldn't lie. Oh, just blame the insurance companies who shockingly went along with this for some reason.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:11 AM   #395
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But that can't be. Obama wouldn't lie. Oh, just blame the insurance companies who shockingly went along with this for some reason.
Doesn't keep me from going to him because I bought my insurance through the musicians union. He does have medicare patients but can't take on any new ones. Too many of them and you just don't make any money.

We are going to end up with a shortage of good family doctors. The days of having a family doctor could be going away. It might just be PA and whichever doctor is in the building at some point.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:51 AM   #396
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Healthcare has traditionally gone up about 7-10% per year for the last decade! and I work for a large corp. What would your premiums have been this year if no Obama care?
Going back the last 5 years on my pay stubs, it averages from 2-4 dollars a pay period.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:05 AM   #397
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Doesn't keep me from going to him because I bought my insurance through the musicians union. He does have medicare patients but can't take on any new ones. Too many of them and you just don't make any money.

We are going to end up with a shortage of good family doctors. The days of having a family doctor could be going away. It might just be PA and whichever doctor is in the building at some point.
Yep, many doctors are leaving the practice and have been even before this farce kicked in. They saw what was coming and got out. People are going to be seeing nurses for their care and anything specialized, wait months, to see a doctor, just like happens in Canada and Europe. Obama said "can" keep your insurance and doctor, not "will." He knew what he was saying and chose his words carefully since he knew what was going to happen, but then could just blame the insurance companies, who don't care since they are making a lot of money in this.
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:46 AM   #398
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Yep, many doctors are leaving the practice and have been even before this farce kicked in. They saw what was coming and got out. People are going to be seeing nurses for their care and anything specialized, wait months, to see a doctor, just like happens in Canada and Europe. Obama said "can" keep your insurance and doctor, not "will." He knew what he was saying and chose his words carefully since he knew what was going to happen, but then could just blame the insurance companies, who don't care since they are making a lot of money in this.
More Fox news nonsense. Despite paying nearly double, or more, it takes longer in the US to get an appointment.

The reality:

Universal Healthcare Doesn't Mean Waiting Longer to See a Doctor
A new report from the Commonwealth Fund shows that people in other industrialized nations get
doctors' appointments faster than Americans do.

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Opponents of healthcare reform have, historically, argued that we should be wary of imitating foreign healthcare systems because people in other
countries have to wait longer to see the doctor. Cheaper, more universal care, the argument seems to be, comes with the tradeoff of slower care.

This is not necessarily true, according to new numbers from the Commonwealth Fund, a nonpartisan organization that studies industrialized
healthcare systems around the world.

The organization surveyed between 1,000 and 5,400 people in 11 industrialized nations. The first thing they found is fairly well-known: American healthcare is mind-bogglingly expensive, as compared to that of other Western democracies:




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.....But other countries have less of a disparity between specialist and primary care salaries, much cheaper medical school, and less paperwork
requirements for doctors in GP positions—all factors that help incentivize more primary care physicians and, sadly, extend beyond the scope of the
Affordable Care Act.


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/universal-healthcare-doesnt-mean-waiting-longer-to-see-a-doctor/281614/
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:20 AM   #399
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More Fox news nonsense. Despite paying nearly double, or more, it takes longer in the US to get an appointment.

The reality:

Universal Healthcare Doesn't Mean Waiting Longer to See a Doctor
A new report from the Commonwealth Fund shows that people in other industrialized nations get
doctors' appointments faster than Americans do.









http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/universal-healthcare-doesnt-mean-waiting-longer-to-see-a-doctor/281614/
Gee, I wonder when Liberal think tanks like the Commonwealth Fund are going to stop telling us how chitty American Healthcare is now that the ACA is on the scene.

More interesting is yet another failed "Faux News" dig while faithfully sinking teeth into a reliably liberal propaganda outfit's latest press releases.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:45 AM   #400
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Gee, I wonder when Liberal think tanks like the Commonwealth Fund are going to stop telling us how chitty American Healthcare is now that the ACA is on the scene.

More interesting is yet another failed "Faux News" dig while faithfully sinking teeth into a reliably liberal propaganda outfit's latest press releases.
So which of those stats are biased??

The Atlantic article is in line with data readily available, but go ahead and show data that repudiates the premise.

The cost of healthcare data is well known and accurate.

The wait times for a Dr's appointment are also in line with other findings; in the Merritt Hawkins survey, for instance.

Feel free to provide alternatives instead of the usual dismissal of anything that doesn't fit the partisan narrative.
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