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Old 10-20-2013, 11:43 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Here's the thing: We dont have another back with Ronnie's skillset. As much as his fumbles piss me off, not sure we can bench him.
His skill set seems to include putting the ball on the ground at least once a week. That is a skill that probably cost the game tonight and we can do without it.

The Dude needs a timeout! Activate Anderson and let Ronnie have a ball in his gut for the next few weeks with everyone trying to remove it. Every time he drops it he goes another week.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:47 PM   #102
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His skill set seems to include putting the ball on the ground at least once a week. That is a skill that probably cost the game tonight and we can do without it.

The Dude needs a timeout! Activate Anderson and let Ronnie have a ball in his gut for the next few weeks with everyone trying to remove it. Every time he drops it he goes another week.
Ronnie Hillman made some plays on his 3 prior carries tonight. He shouldn't be given the ball in a goal line situation.

I know this may be hard for some of you to believe, but this is his 1st fumble lost of the season in a situation he definitely shouldn't have been in.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:47 PM   #103
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Its not Doom and Gloom, but it is a wake up call. This team cannot take their superiority for granted. They actually have to work for wins. And with all the defensive errors in the secondary, and the injuries to the line and Woodyard out our coaches aren't doing what they need to do. Call an exceptional game and have the players ready to execute. We were totally outcoached today. It didn't help that Manning looked like he was an OLD QB today.

Overall the Defense did all right considering the hole that the offense and special teams put them in. But Champ is now gone for almost the rest of the year, and I doubt he will recover to be in game shape even by the playoffs. Time to move on and make permanent adjustments. The trade deadline hasn't passed , and if this team wants to go to the Super bowl we need to address some issues in the secondary, and Maybe line depth. Lenon is not able to make plays consistently ( or almost never), and we NEED to have better LB play. Even if Woodyard is back next week, injuries will continue to happen.

Hillman needs to get the inactive treatment ( at least) and Anderson needs to get a chance, along with Ball ( maybe). The O line was terrible and the only good thing today was no NEW injuries there.

These are real problems and the schedule isn't getting easier. A revived RGIII and the Redskins come into Denver next week. We should win that ...and then the bye. But there are a lot of cracks showing.
Call up Richard Seymour and ask him if he's brought his price down to a reasonable level.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:06 AM   #104
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I don't think this is the end of Hillman's usefulness to the Broncos. They could put him on the practice squad and he could lead all the fumble drills.
I am still waiting for Hillman to be useful in the first place. He has been nothing but a waste of time, effort and money. He can not block or hold on to the football, How is he useful
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:08 AM   #105
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I am still waiting for Hillman to be useful in the first place. He has been nothing but a waste of time, effort and money. He can not block or hold on to the football, How is he useful
I'm still wondering where this whole, Hillman cannot block jargon is coming from considering he hasn't given up much this season.

He should have been given the ball much more this game, he would have turned those 9 yard runs by Moreno into 15+ yard gains considering the size of the holes.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:15 AM   #106
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Hillman??

Clean out your locker.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #107
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As objectively as I can discuss Hillman, given the circumstances, I think his blocking is pretty OK right now. He's made some nice catches in space at times. He's demonstrated an ability to catch an edge and break the ball up field.

But at this point, the fumbling is a pattern and in the NFL turnover margin is everything. There are plenty of fragile scat backs out there that can't hold onto the ball. Most of them are out of the league.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:55 AM   #108
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I still dont understand why he was in the game in that situation, and he goes down far too easily.

That said, we never should have been running in that sitiation with the clock being an issue, unless they were conceding the run (they weren't).

I wish the NFL would get that Decker catch/TD sorted. I never know what is/is not a catch the way it is interpreted differently all the time.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:58 AM   #109
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Ronnie Hillman made some plays on his 3 prior carries tonight. He shouldn't be given the ball in a goal line situation.

I know this may be hard for some of you to believe, but this is his 1st fumble lost of the season in a situation he definitely shouldn't have been in.
A fumble is a fumble when it comes to ball security. Whether or not your team or the opposing team recovers the ball, you still fumbled. And let's not pretend the fumbles in preseason didn't happen.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:11 AM   #110
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The decker one def shoulda been a touchdown.

if you have the wherewithal to extend the ball past the goal line, then you've have possession.
Yes. I said this at the top of page 4. Once the ball hits the pylon or crosses the goal, play is over, it's a TD. You do not need to secure the ball through contact with the ground. That's only if you are already in the endzone when you catch it.

We got so ****ed on that IMO.

The rule states:

TOUCHDOWN PLAYS
Article 1 Touchdown Plays. A touchdown is scored when:
(a) the ball is on, above, or behind the plane of the opponents’ goal line and is in possession of a runner
who has advanced from the field of play; or
(b) a ball in possession of an airborne runner is on, above, or behind the plane of the goal line, and some
part of the ball passed over or inside the pylon; or
(c) a ball in player possession touches the pylon, provided that, after contact by an opponent, no part of
the player’s body, except his hands or feet, struck the ground before the ball touched the pylon; or
(d) any player who is legally inbounds catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) that is on, above, or behind
the opponent’s goal line; or
(e) the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act.
SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES
(1) The ball is automatically dead when it is in legal possession of a player and is on, above, or behind
the opponent’s goal line.
(2) the player is attempting to catch a pass, the ball is not dead, and a touchdown is not scored, until the
receiver completes the catch. See Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7.


How I saw it was, Decker had made the catch, he was not juggling it or the ball wasn't moving in his hands. He then moves the ball across the goal. The ball should be dead. As was pointed out, JT's touchdown a few weeks ago was almost exactly like this. He caught the ball, moved it across the goal, and then contact with the ground forced it out. It was called a TD. The league needs to pull their head out of their ass and clarify this rule much better.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:14 AM   #111
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Last year, Knowshon went on the bench for fumbling once. Let Hillman sit on the bench for a while. Ball can back up Moreno and give CJ some carries. If CJ is more than just a preseason wonder, then he can earn more carries each game. Simple really.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:15 AM   #112
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Quote:
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How I saw it was, Decker had made the catch, he was not juggling it or the ball wasn't moving in his hands. He then moves the ball across the goal. The ball should be dead. As was pointed out, JT's touchdown a few weeks ago was almost exactly like this. He caught the ball, moved it across the goal, and then contact with the ground forced it out. It was called a TD. The league needs to pull their head out of their ass and clarify this rule much better.
The rule is clear. The line judge just ****ed up and then Fox did his usual derp impression of a head coach and didn't challenge it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:26 AM   #113
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The rule is clear. The line judge just ****ed up and then Fox did his usual derp impression of a head coach and didn't challenge it.
I don't think they would have over turned it. The rules leave them a way out, as it clearly states both cases. That the ball could be dead and a TD, or in the event if the ref still thinks he's "making" the catch they could say no TD.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:31 AM   #114
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I don't think they would have over turned it. The rules leave them a way out, as it clearly states both cases. That the ball could be dead and a TD, or in the event if the ref still thinks he's "making" the catch they could say no TD.
He clearly had already made the catch since he made a move to stretch it across the goal line. Therefore it was a TD as soon as it crossed the line. There isn't any question on the matter in my opinion. If they fail to overturn that call after a challenge they only further prove their incompetence.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:34 AM   #115
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He clearly had already made the catch since he made a move to stretch it across the goal line. Therefore it was a TD as soon as it crossed the line. There isn't any question on the matter in my opinion. If they fail to overturn that call after a challenge they only further prove their incompetence.
Well that's how you and I see it. But I'm just saying those punk ass refs could see it the wrong way, which they clearly did. At least a Fox challenge would have brought the issue to the forefront. I sure as hell hope the Broncos FO is sending in some complaints to the league office. Those refs blew it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:19 AM   #116
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It never would have been overturned.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:47 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
The decker one def shoulda been a touchdown.

if you have the wherewithal to extend the ball past the goal line, then you've have possession.
This times 1000000...I was DUMBFOUNDED that it wasn't called a TD...
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:12 AM   #118
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Hillman does not belong on an NFL roster IMO. Can't break big plays, can't make people miss, can't break tackles and fumbles the ball all time. What in that says pro nfl skill set?
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:21 AM   #119
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Hillman does not belong on an NFL roster IMO. Can't break big plays, can't make people miss, can't break tackles and fumbles the ball all time. What in that says pro nfl skill set?
Tatum Bell was a better RB and thats not saying much. I want to see what Anderson can do.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:24 AM   #120
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Last year, Knowshon went on the bench for fumbling once. Let Hillman sit on the bench for a while. Ball can back up Moreno and give CJ some carries. If CJ is more than just a preseason wonder, then he can earn more carries each game. Simple really.
Ball has ball security issues if not worse then hilman.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:26 AM   #121
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Hillman does not belong on an NFL roster IMO. Can't break big plays, can't make people miss, can't break tackles and fumbles the ball all time. What in that says pro nfl skill set?
dude needs to sit down along with trindon
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:27 AM   #122
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dude needs to sit down along with trindon
At least Holliday looks the part of someone who can actually make big plays and belongs in the NFL. True his fumble was horrid. Bad fundamentals to keep the ball on the inside part of the body when running away from defenders to the sideline. It's one of the first thing coaches teach rbs and ball carriers.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:46 AM   #123
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Hillman was in there because Knowshon wasn't getting anything done, and we needed speed. That said, I couldn't believe they gave him the ball on the goal line.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:50 AM   #124
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Call up Richard Seymour and ask him if he's brought his price down to a reasonable level.
Hell Yea
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:52 AM   #125
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Ronnie Hillman made some plays on his 3 prior carries tonight. He shouldn't be given the ball in a goal line situation.

I know this may be hard for some of you to believe, but this is his 1st fumble lost of the season in a situation he definitely shouldn't have been in.
Didn't he lose a fumble in a goal-to-go situation vs. the Giants, too. I remember us marching right down the field only to see him give it away.

Enough already.
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