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Old 04-30-2014, 05:31 PM   #126
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What's up with Crawford hexing Durant at the free throw line? The crook strikes again.
Something about whether they had a foul to give or something. The Grizz are tearing KD up when he drives to the lane the refs gotta call that crap, but the Thunder can't keep shooting those long jump shots everytime down the court
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:40 PM   #127
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Maybe I misunderstand it, but i dont think you can use the MLE if you start out below the cap and then sign a player (Melo in this case) that takes you above it. But im not sure how that rule works.

Regardless, ESPN recently wrote an article about what the Bulls should do next season and addressed this. I forget exactly what their conclusion was, but Melo and Mirotic couldn't both fit under.

This wasn't from the article I read, but i guess it applies:

4. With all this focus on Melo, what's the immediate future for the Bulls' European hot shot Nikola Mirotic?

Mirotic is under contract for two more seasons with Real Madrid and might have to spend one more abroad if the Bulls' Melo fantasies materialize.

Or if the offensively desperate Chicagoans make a fallback swoop for, say, longtime Bulls target Pau Gasol.

Given the sizable buyout required to free Mirotic from his Spanish obligations -- and with Chicago able to kick in only $600,000 toward that buyout that wouldn't count against the salary cap -- it's conceivable Chicago might even ask its talented frontcourt prospect to stay abroad for a fourth successive season since he was drafted.

It's hard to see how the Bulls could manufacture the needed financial flexibility to add a high-dollar free agent and Mirotic. The good news is 2011's No. 23 overall pick said earlier this month in an interview with Spain's Canal Plus that he's fine with playing one more season in Madrid, which he calls "home for me."
No they can still use the MLE.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:07 PM   #128
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No they can still use the MLE.
Well I dunno. All these guys are saying it's one or the other unless one doesn't take a lot less
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:28 PM   #129
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Well I dunno. All these guys are saying it's one or the other unless one doesn't take a lot less
It's probably going to come to a sign n trade with Melo.

So trade him to Chicago, use mLE on Mirotic.

I personally think Phil doesn't really want Melo back in NY, trade players away and rebuild that team. Amare/Bargnani will be coming off the books after next season/trade bait. Gain assets.

And that is what I would do. Rebuild the Knicks the right way.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:31 PM   #130
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Well I dunno. All these guys are saying it's one or the other unless one doesn't take a lot less
They would be wrong. The Bulls can use it just like any other team that has cap and then goes over it.
That's what the MLE is for.

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NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent to a contract with a starting salary up to the following amounts3:
Season First-year salary
2011-12 $5.000 million
2012-13 $5.000 million
2013-14 $5.150 million
2014-15 $5.305 million
2015-16 $5.464 million
2016-17 $5.628 million
2017-18 $5.797 million
2018-19 $5.971 million
2019-20 $6.150 million
2020-21 $6.335 million

This exception may be split and given to multiple players. It may be used for contracts up to four years in length, with raises up to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract. Signing a player to a multi-year contract does not affect a team's ability to use this exception every year -- for example, a team can use this exception to sign a player to a four-year contract, and use it again the following year to sign another player. Also see question number 26 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

If the player is a restricted free agent with one or two years of service and receives an offer sheet from a new team, the player's prior team may use the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception to match the offer sheet (see question numbers 44 and 45).

Again, this exception is only available to teams that are below the "apron," i.e., below the point $4 million above the tax line. Teams above the apron instead must use the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (see below). Further, any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the apron (see question 28 for more information).

However, if a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception but does not exceed the constraints of the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (e.g., in 2011-12 they use the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception to sign a player for $3 million or less), then the team is allowed to later exceed the apron (i.e., it is not hard-capped). If the team later exceeds the apron, then it is considered to have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. But the converse is not true -- if a team is above the apron and spends any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it cannot drop below the apron and spend the remaining money as part of its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. Finally, a team that was above the apron but did not spend any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception has full access to the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if it later drops below the apron.

A different team salary definition is used for determining whether a team is above or below the apron. See question number 14 for details. In addition, this exception begins to pro-rate downward daily starting on January 10 each season (see question numbers 26 and 29), and expires on the last day of the team's regular season.

TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is above the "apron" (i.e., with a team salary $4 million or more above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron must use this exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if doing so takes them above the apron. This exception cannot be used if the team has already used the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or the Room Mid-Level exception. Starting in 2013-14, it cannot be used if the team has received a player that season in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 90).

This exception allows a team to sign any free agent to a contract with a starting salary up to the following amounts3:
Season First-year salary
2011-12 $3.000 million
2012-13 $3.090 million
2013-14 $3.183 million
2014-15 $3.278 million
2015-16 $3.376 million
2016-17 $3.477 million
2017-18 $3.581 million
2018-19 $3.688 million
2019-20 $3.799 million
2020-21 $3.913 million

This exception may be split and given to multiple players. It may be used for contracts up to three years in length, with raises up to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract. Signing a player to a multi-year contract does not affect a team's ability to use this exception every year -- for example, a team can use this exception to sign a player to a three-year contract, and use it again the following year to sign another player. Also see question number 26 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

If the player is a restricted free agent with one or two years of service and receives an offer sheet from a new team, the player's prior team may use the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception to match the offer sheet, but only if the offer is within the constraints of the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (see question numbers 44 and 45).

If a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception but does not exceed the constraints of the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (e.g., in 2011-12 they use the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception to sign a player for $3 million or less) and the team later exceeds the apron, then the team is considered to have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. But the converse is not true -- if a team is above the apron and spends any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it cannot drop below the apron and spend the remaining money as part of its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. Finally, a team that was above the apron but did not spend any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception has full access to the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if it later drops below the apron.

A different team salary definition is used for determining whether a team is above or below the apron. See question number 14 for details. In addition, this exception begins to pro-rate downward daily starting on January 10 each season (see question numbers 26 and 29), and expires on the last day of the team's regular season.

ROOM MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only to teams that drop far enough below the cap to use cap room, and lose their Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level and Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions (see question number 26). This exception cannot be used if the team has already used the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions. This exception becomes available once the team salary drops far enough that the team loses its other exceptions, and expires following the last day of the regular season.

This exception allows a team to sign any free agent, starting at up to the following amounts:
Season First-year salary
2011-12 $2.500 million
2012-13 $2.575 million
2013-14 $2.652 million
2014-15 $2.732 million
2015-16 $2.814 million
2016-17 $2.898 million
2017-18 $2.985 million
2018-19 $3.075 million
2019-20 $3.167 million
2020-21 $3.262 million

This exception may be split and given to multiple players. It may be used for contracts up to two years in length, with raises up to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract. Signing a player to a multi-year contract does not affect a team's ability to use this exception every year -- for example, a team can use this exception to sign a player to a two-year contract, and use it again the following year to sign another player. Also see question number 26 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

Once a team has used this exception, it can no longer use the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:48 PM   #131
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Nice update Lestat.

Like I said, I think anything involving Melo will be SnT. He gets his $, players/picks come back to NY.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:51 PM   #132
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Nice game by the Raps btw. GJ beating that overpaid **** team. Glad to see them take down the Nets. Lowry saved them.

Spurs played good ball and defeated the Mavs. They should, since they are the better team. Dirk looks old.

Now lets see what Houston can do.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:55 PM   #133
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Finally the Lakers get ride of the POS coach.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:01 PM   #134
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Finally the Lakers get ride of the POS coach.
I think he quit because he didn't want to be a lame duck going into next season on a 1 year deal. Lakers didn't pick up his option.

Lakers should do whatever they can and bring Mike Brown back. He is definitely right for that franchise and will help them win multiple chips.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:26 PM   #135
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Nice update Lestat.

Like I said, I think anything involving Melo will be SnT. He gets his $, players/picks come back to NY.
It depends on if Melo wants to give up money and come or if he wants to retain the cash and gives the Knicks something to work with.
I think he will sign outright to potentially avoid them gutting the Bulls assets.
IE Nuggets-Knicks Melo trade.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:28 PM   #136
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I think he quit because he didn't want to be a lame duck going into next season on a 1 year deal. Lakers didn't pick up his option.

Lakers should do whatever they can and bring Mike Brown back. He is definitely right for that franchise and will help them win multiple chips.
Jim Buss is ruining that franchise.
I know Dr. Buss wanting him in charge on the basketball side and Jeanie on the business side but damn. She should be running both.

Everybody and their mama called Mike D as a terrible fit.
He doesn't coach defense and runs a gimmick offense that wears out it's welcome after a season or two.

Jim wanted to win some damn ego power struggle with Phil and Magic and he ****ed over the franchise to do it.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:35 PM   #137
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Jim Buss is ruining that franchise.
I know Dr. Buss wanting him in charge on the basketball side and Jeanie on the business side but damn. She should be running both.

Everybody and their mama called Mike D as a terrible fit.
He doesn't coach defense and runs a gimmick offense that wears out it's welcome after a season or two.

Jim wanted to win some damn ego power struggle with Phil and Magic and he ****ed over the franchise to do it.
D'antoni was a bad fit. Have him coach a very young team with some random franchise. Not a team like the Lakers.

It's their team. They can do what they want.

I will say, the Kobe extension is rough. It will put butts in the seats when he plays, but damn that's a rough extension to swallow. Lakers will be sitting good with cap space soon. But, that Kobe extension. It's like a poison pill. And they offered it.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:42 PM   #138
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They would be wrong. The Bulls can use it just like any other team that has cap and then goes over it.
That's what the MLE is for.

Larry Coon
No I get that, but between the buyout and Mirotecs apparent worth, he might require more than the midlevel (if they get Anthony). It would be a good move for them though. Wouldn't really need rose anymore


Also not convinced Chicago will pay Boozer to play for someone else. As much as they should. For Chicagos sake, I hope you're right!

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Old 04-30-2014, 08:53 PM   #139
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No I get that, but between the buyout and Mirotecs apparent worth, he might require more than the midlevel (if they get Anthony). It would be a good move for them though. Wouldn't really need rose anymore
Mirotic shouldn't require more than the MLE, if he does we can leave him over for another year.

We would still need Rose. Anthony could be the primary scorer, Rose the play maker and ball handler. It would be great for floor spacing as none of our players are pure post guys.

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D'antoni was a bad fit. Have him coach a very young team with some random franchise. Not a team like the Lakers.

It's their team. They can do what they want.

I will say, the Kobe extension is rough. It will put butts in the seats when he plays, but damn that's a rough extension to swallow. Lakers will be sitting good with cap space soon. But, that Kobe extension. It's like a poison pill. And they offered it.
No, owning the Lakers is like owning the Yanks you do not get to have a down year.
You have a billion dollar franchise with a huge tv deal, the fans expect results and you have to deliver.
This is a situation in which it costs more money to not make the playoffs and be successful than it does to pay the luxury tax, similar to how the Yanks saw a steep decline in profits when they half assed it last year and tried to penny pinch.
The profit loss was so drastic that the Steinbrenner's got the message.
It will be the same thing with the Lakers.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:58 PM   #140
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Mirotic shouldn't require more than the MLE, if he does we can leave him over for another year.

We would still need Rose. Anthony could be the primary scorer, Rose the play maker and ball handler. It would be great for floor spacing as none of our players are pure post guys.



No, owning the Lakers is like owning the Yanks you do not get to have a down year.
You have a billion dollar franchise with a huge tv deal, the fans expect results and you have to deliver.
This is a situation in which it costs more money to not make the playoffs and be successful than it does to pay the luxury tax, similar to how the Yanks saw a steep decline in profits when they half assed it last year and tried to penny pinch.
The profit loss was so drastic that the Steinbrenner's got the message.
It will be the same thing with the Lakers.
I think with his buyout he might cost more. He's the top prospect in Europe. Probably stays over another year


I'm also not convinced Rose and Anthony are the best pair. I think for Carmelo to succeed, he needs to be option A and B, like how Philly had success with iverson.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:09 PM   #141
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I think with his buyout he might cost more. He's the top prospect in Europe. Probably stays over another year


I'm also not convinced Rose and Anthony are the best pair. I think for Carmelo to succeed, he needs to be option A and B, like how Philly had success with iverson.
The team can give up to 600K on the buyout without cap implications, after that it's up the player to pay the rest.
The Cap is going up so the MLE should be about 5.4 mil or so. I doubt Mirotic costs more than that.

Carmelo needs a great defense and a play making PG with him.
He doesn't have to dominate the ball and be A & B. He has had to be A & B do to his poor team's personnel in the past.
His best teammate has been either Chauncey Billups or Ty Lawson when in Denver.

Now Carmelo is a selfish player but his skills fit what the Bulls need.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:12 PM   #142
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No, owning the Lakers is like owning the Yanks you do not get to have a down year.
You have a billion dollar franchise with a huge tv deal, the fans expect results and you have to deliver.
This is a situation in which it costs more money to not make the playoffs and be successful than it does to pay the luxury tax, similar to how the Yanks saw a steep decline in profits when they half assed it last year and tried to penny pinch.
The profit loss was so drastic that the Steinbrenner's got the message.
It will be the same thing with the Lakers.
They had given Kobe a huge extension. Lets see him come back healthy and play. Will he put butts in the seats? Yes. Is he good enough to lead a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs? No. The Lakers opted for short-term gains versus completely rebuilding for the long haul. Lets see how it plays out.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:20 PM   #143
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The team can give up to 600K on the buyout without cap implications, after that it's up the player to pay the rest.
The Cap is going up so the MLE should be about 5.4 mil or so. I doubt Mirotic costs more than that.

Carmelo needs a great defense and a play making PG with him.
He doesn't have to dominate the ball and be A & B. He has had to be A & B do to his poor team's personnel in the past.
His best teammate has been either Chauncey Billups or Ty Lawson when in Denver.

Now Carmelo is a selfish player but his skills fit what the Bulls need.
If I was Melo, I wouldn't want to head to Chicago. You have a bunch of role players and a busted PG. I think Houston would be ideal for Melo. With Miami being the best fit.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:25 PM   #144
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If I was Melo, I wouldn't want to head to Chicago. You have a bunch of role players and a busted PG. I think Houston would be ideal for Melo. With Miami being the best fit.
Miami would be a terrible fit unless one of Wade or James left.
Houston could work depending on how you use Parsons.
He is too good to be a 6th man, he is also one of the leaders of the Rockets.

Chicago would be the best fit in terms of the assets they have and the potential to surround him with more talent. We have 2 1sts this year and it's a deep deep draft.
We can stay put at #16 and #19 and pick or move up and grab a top 10 pick.
We have one of the best coaches in the NBA, a top 2 C and a young improving roster with a league MVP coming back.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:36 PM   #145
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Miami would be a terrible fit unless one of Wade or James left.
Houston could work depending on how you use Parsons.
He is too good to be a 6th man, he is also one of the leaders of the Rockets.

Chicago would be the best fit in terms of the assets they have and the potential to surround him with more talent. We have 2 1sts this year and it's a deep deep draft.
We can stay put at #16 and #19 and pick or move up and grab a top 10 pick.
We have one of the best coaches in the NBA, a top 2 C and a young improving roster with a league MVP coming back.
You have a PG who hasn't played consistently in two seasons. Two full NBA seasons with injuries to the lower body. Role players everywhere. While Noah is a good player, he's not the guy to put the team on his back and take over games. Look around the Bulls roster. They are not excellent players. You have two mid round picks, as with all NBA picks are hit or miss whether it's #2 or #52. To add if you do a deal with NY to land Melo I am sure they will want some assets back aside from Boozer.

Parsons is the bait to land Melo in Houston.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:38 PM   #146
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Miami would be a terrible fit unless one of Wade or James left.
Miami will always be a fit if you put your ego aside and the goal is a chip.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:42 PM   #147
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And not saying you Lestat, but I don't think people realize how hard it is to play basketball with busted wheels. It's a tough sport on the body and especially the lower body.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:42 PM   #148
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You have a PG who hasn't played consistently in two seasons. Two full NBA seasons with injuries to the lower body. Role players everywhere. While Noah is a good player, he's not the guy to put the team on his back and take over games. Look around the Bulls roster. They are not excellent players. You have two mid round picks, as with all NBA picks are hit or miss whether it's #2 or #52. To add if you do a deal with NY to land Melo I am sure they will want some assets back aside from Boozer.

Parsons is the bait to land Melo in Houston.
Parsons is the reason Dwight went to Houston. No way they will deal him.

Rose has had two freak knee injuries, the likelihood of that happening again is next to zero.

The role players you speak of include one of the most improved young players in the NBA in Jimmy Butler who might also be the best young perimeter defender in the game.
Taj Gibson was very close to winning 6th man of the year and is one of the better defensive PF's in the game.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:46 PM   #149
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Parsons is the reason Dwight went to Houston. No way they will deal him.

Rose has had two freak knee injuries, the likelihood of that happening again is next to zero.

The role players you speak of include one of the most improved young players in the NBA in Jimmy Butler who might also be the best young perimeter defender in the game.
Taj Gibson was very close to winning 6th man of the year and is one of the better defensive PF's in the game.
Freak injuries or not, that's serious ****. And the chances of it happening again are not next to zero, but more than likely.

And in regards to the role players, than we agree to disagree.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:49 PM   #150
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Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 10,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
Miami will always be a fit if you put your ego aside and the goal is a chip.
Miami is a good fit because those 3 are best friends and wanted to play together. LeBron is the alpha dog and Wade and Bosh put their egos aside to taste a championship.

Melo is better friends with Kobe than those 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
And not saying you Lestat, but I don't think people realize how hard it is to play basketball with busted wheels. It's a tough sport on the body and especially the lower body.
His wheels are not busted. Each injury was a standard tear. No ligament damage or excess structural damage.
This isn't like micro-fracture or a compound injury.
Rose suffered the easiest injuries to repair and ones that do not impact you much after recovery.
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