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Old 05-16-2014, 08:44 PM   #351
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You'd have a point but they were a different team when he left.

As in it wasnt the same team but just not LeBron there.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:49 PM   #352
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You'd have a point but they were a different team when he left.

As in it wasnt the same team but just not LeBron there.
Dude they were all replaceable parts. They had exactly one good player. He left and they went from winning 60 to 20. The same teams win every year because they best players generally win. Not sure why this is even an argument
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:07 PM   #353
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Tell that to bill Russell, MJ, Lebron, shaq, Kobe. You bring up a good point, but look how many games Cleveland won in brons last year, and look how many they won when he left.
They also fired the HC of that team and have had a unsettled coaching spot since.
There was no continuity then. Their plan was LeBron or nothing.

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Dude they were all replaceable parts. They had exactly one good player. He left and they went from winning 60 to 20. The same teams win every year because they best players generally win. Not sure why this is even an argument
A great player elevates a franchise but they can still win without them.
Bulls, Suns, Grizzlies, were teams without superstars and they still won because the organization hired both the right coach and constructed the roster in a way that allows them to be a good team.

Now those teams will not win a championship without a player who can close out games. But they can still win.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:06 PM   #354
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They also fired the HC of that team and have had a unsettled coaching spot since.
There was no continuity then. Their plan was LeBron or nothing.



A great player elevates a franchise but they can still win without them.
Bulls, Suns, Grizzlies, were teams without superstars and they still won because the organization hired both the right coach and constructed the roster in a way that allows them to be a good team.

Now those teams will not win a championship without a player who can close out games. But they can still win.
Not saying it's a hard and fast rule, and also am not saying you can have success. But there's a reason why the same teams keep winning championships. What's the common denominator? Superstars.

Why are we arguing about something we agree on
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:56 PM   #355
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:10 PM   #356
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I remember that veto, and I guess thems the breaks. Let us not forget LA has gotten multiple HOFers for pennies on the dollar or outright free from teams for 50 years?
By being a great franchise, not $$$ in all cases.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:20 AM   #357
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Not saying it's a hard and fast rule, and also am not saying you can have success. But there's a reason why the same teams keep winning championships. What's the common denominator? Superstars.

Why are we arguing about something we agree on
We are not talking about the same thing though.
I am saying it is the entire organization. You are saying it's the superstars only.
It starts from the top down and every team that has won either a singular title or multiple ones has had a great owner, a great FO structure and a great coach that bring it all together in tune with the superstars.

Those are the franchises that get superstars through the draft and develop them, those are the franchises that seemingly always fall as backwards into great trades and have great runs.
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Old 05-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #358
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We are not talking about the same thing though.
I am saying it is the entire organization. You are saying it's the superstars only.
It starts from the top down and every team that has won either a singular title or multiple ones has had a great owner, a great FO structure and a great coach that bring it all together in tune with the superstars.

Those are the franchises that get superstars through the draft and develop them, those are the franchises that seemingly always fall as backwards into great trades and have great runs.
Oh, definitely. I'm not arguing or disputing that. I'm just saying that the superstar is the key ingredient. I was just using Cleveland as an example of how one guy makes that much of a difference. And if LeBron opts out and leaves Miami, that team probably goes to **** even if wade and bosh stay
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:21 AM   #359
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And if LeBron opts out and leaves Miami, that team probably goes to **** even if wade and bosh stay
Thats not true, they'd still win 45-55 and get a top 2-3 seed if he did leave.

Unreal how "Heat fans" act like they'd be a lottery team without LeBron.
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:27 AM   #360
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Sucks that OKC is losing Serge Ibaka for the rest of the playoffs. Huge huge loss.
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:53 AM   #361
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Oh, definitely. I'm not arguing or disputing that. I'm just saying that the superstar is the key ingredient. I was just using Cleveland as an example of how one guy makes that much of a difference. And if LeBron opts out and leaves Miami, that team probably goes to **** even if wade and bosh stay
I agree. Miami's a 5 seed in the garbage east without Lebron, very likely don't make the playoffs in the west. Dwade and Bosh are great players, but Lebron is what makes that team great. He basically got the cavs to the finals by his lonesome, with a few spot up shooters who mesh with his talents. Drive inside, posterize some poor guy, and if they collapse, kick it out to a wide open spot up shooter. Lebrons style of play eliminates the need for a dominant big man. Keep in mind, I cant STAND the guy.
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:46 AM   #362
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Thats not true, they'd still win 45-55 and get a top 2-3 seed if he did leave.

Unreal how "Heat fans" act like they'd be a lottery team without LeBron.
1) I'm not a heat fan. 2). No ****ing way they win 55 without him. Have you watched Miami play basketball? Especially in the playoffs? With the exception if one game where Wade played great, it's Lebron and a bunch of dudes he makes better. You think they get all those open threes without him? Please.

He's been far and away the best player in the playoffs thus far. Both the eye test and advanced metrics prove this
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:54 AM   #363
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How did Boston get screwed out of Tim Duncan?
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:55 AM   #364
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1) I'm not a heat fan. 2). No ****ing way they win 55 without him. Have you watched Miami play basketball? Especially in the playoffs? With the exception if one game where Wade played great, it's Lebron and a bunch of dudes he makes better. You think they get all those open threes without him? Please.

He's been far and away the best player in the playoffs thus far. Both the eye test and advanced metrics prove this
I never argued that, they went 8-1 without him this year IIRC when he didnt play.

They still have plenty of good players to make due without him. And would have cap space to sign 2-3 key players if he did leave.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:00 PM   #365
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Heat winning 55 games without James is a laugher. With what? A soft, 3 point shooting Chris Bosh and often injured Wade? This team has no depth. James is what makes this team functional. And yes, I'm a Heat fan.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:08 PM   #366
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That's pretty good.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #367
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How did Boston get screwed out of Tim Duncan?
They had a 36% chance to win the lotto, 2 separate lotto picks and still SA who was the 3rd worst team won the lotto and Boston ended up with the 3rd pick.

It was widely believed that Stern fixed the lotto for the Spurs.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #368
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Heat winning 55 games without James is a laugher. With what? A soft, 3 point shooting Chris Bosh and often injured Wade? This team has no depth. James is what makes this team functional. And yes, I'm a Heat fan.
Well without LeBron they would likely have more cap room and flexibility. Also Bosh turned into more of a jump shooter due to Wade and LeBron needing the lane for post play and driving.

He altered his game the most to fit. Though he should as he is the 3rd best player of the 3.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:42 PM   #369
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Heat winning 55 games without James is a laugher. With what? A soft, 3 point shooting Chris Bosh and often injured Wade? This team has no depth. James is what makes this team functional. And yes, I'm a Heat fan.
You dont make 3 straight NBA Finals, win 2 Finals in a row, possibly win 3, make 4 because you have one great player and a lard of **** after him, FOH with that.

Miami has tons of great depth/role players.

Given they play 50 games vs the East, sure it's not out of the realm depending what pieces replace him if he did leave (unlikely).

If you take out LeBron and dont add anyone, sure.

But they would have cap room to add some key players with his salary.

Bosh is a huge part to Miami, he was a 20/10 guy in Toronto when he got #1 touches. Great in the P/R, underrated defender, developed a pretty good 3-pt shot. Bosh is a stud.

Often injured Wade was the best SG in basketball this year, the hate Miami fans give other players not named LeBron is hilarious.

A biased one, at that.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:44 PM   #370
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You dont make 3 straight NBA Finals, win 2 Finals in a row, possibly win 3, make 4 because you have one great player and a lard of **** after him, FOH with that.

Miami has tons of great depth/role players.

Given they play 50 games vs the East, sure it's not out of the realm depending what pieces replace him if he did leave (unlikely).

If you take out LeBron and dont add anyone, sure.

But they would have cap room to add some key players with his salary.

Bosh is a huge part to Miami, he was a 20/10 guy in Toronto when he got #1 touches. Great in the P/R, underrated defender, developed a pretty good 3-pt shot. Bosh is a stud.

Often injured Wade was the best SG in basketball this year, the hate Miami fans give other players not named LeBron is hilarious.

A biased one, at that.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:46 PM   #371
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Harden is so bad on defense, i cannot say he was despite him being an offensive beast. His defense is that bad.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:58 PM   #372
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Harden is so bad on defense, i cannot say he was despite him being an offensive beast. His defense is that bad.
What defense?
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Old 05-17-2014, 05:19 PM   #373
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What defense?
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Old 05-17-2014, 07:03 PM   #374
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They had a 36% chance to win the lotto, 2 separate lotto picks and still SA who was the 3rd worst team won the lotto and Boston ended up with the 3rd pick.

It was widely believed that Stern fixed the lotto for the Spurs.
36 percent chance while is the best odds is far from a sure thing. That was during the live lottery pick era. I say it's more sour milk than fixed. There was no reason to give San Antonio Duncan.
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Old 05-17-2014, 07:25 PM   #375
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Sucks that OKC is losing Serge Ibaka for the rest of the playoffs. Huge huge loss.
GO SPURS !!!!!!!!
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