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Old 10-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #101
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I'm not going to diss on the guy, still a Doom fan even if he isn't in orange and blue. He was a lot of fun to watch during the years he gave us service. Or better yet serviced us.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:09 PM   #102
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When comparing salary, we are getting a ton out if Phillips. 5.5 sacks, solid play against the run and he forced two picks last week off his tips. Add Von back to the mix and I think they'll be a sweet duo
You could almost say this whole thing was a win for both teams. Broncos got Phillips for significantly cheaper than Doom, Ravens got Doom for less than Kruger.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:23 PM   #103
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When comparing salary, we are getting a ton out if Phillips. 5.5 sacks, solid play against the run and he forced two picks last week off his tips. Add Von back to the mix and I think they'll be a sweet duo
would you say the same thing about Clark vs Clady?

Just askin'
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:59 PM   #104
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would you say the same thing about Clark vs Clady?

Just askin'
Yep. I was one of the people saying there wouldn't be much difference
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:24 AM   #105
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Honestly, I would argue we are getting somewhat better value OVERALL for the money with Phillips, but still Dumervil is a better pass rusher. I wish we could've worked things out with Doom, but its history now.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:22 AM   #106
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Well the season is almost over. Phillips has 10 sacks and 34 total tackles. Dumervil has 9.5 sacks and 31 total tackles.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:23 AM   #107
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Well the season is almost over. Phillips has 10 sacks and 34 total tackles. Dumervil has 9.5 sacks and 31 total tackles.
Hardly apples to apples.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:30 AM   #108
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Well the season is almost over. Phillips has 10 sacks and 34 total tackles. Dumervil has 9.5 sacks and 31 total tackles.
Does Phillips hold his position better than Doom? There could be other factors that don't show up for Defensive Lineman.

We did get one hell of a deal when you do compare what we would have paid Doom.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:52 AM   #109
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Does Phillips hold his position better than Doom? There could be other factors that don't show up for Defensive Lineman.

We did get one hell of a deal when you do compare what we would have paid Doom.
That's my point. I'm not saying Phillips matches him on every down. But for 1/10 of the price we aren't losing much.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:59 AM   #110
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Well the season is almost over. Phillips has 10 sacks and 34 total tackles. Dumervil has 9.5 sacks and 31 total tackles.
Philips has also taken 40% more snaps than Doom this year.

And our sack percentage went from 8.2% (2nd) to 6.3% (20th)

Baltimore's went from 5.9% (17th) to 7.2% (10th)

We can talk all day about whether Philips made a good extra value meal or not. There's really no arguing whether he's good value for the money. Absolutely he is. But in my mind it wasn't worth the risk against what was one of the best pass rushing formulas in the league. The on-field product has done little to undermine that impression.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:04 AM   #111
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I don't know how anyone can watch doom from last year and phillips from this year and think the broncos didn't lose something regardless of the stat sheet.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:26 AM   #112
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Baltimore's went from 5.9% (17th) to 7.2% (10th)
While Doom is a factor here, Suggs is probably the larger factor. He missed half of last season and played far less than 100% when he did. 2 sacks last year, 10 so far this year.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:37 AM   #113
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I don't know how anyone can watch doom from last year and phillips from this year and think the broncos didn't lose something regardless of the stat sheet.
Agreed.

There was so much more ferociousness to the pass rush last season.

This season it's like watching in slow motion.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:43 AM   #114
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Agreed.

There was so much more ferociousness to the pass rush last season.

This season it's like watching in slow motion.
I still think pointing to doom and using that as the excuse as to why our D has had trouble this year is foolish.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:50 AM   #115
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Philips has also taken 40% more snaps than Doom this year.

And our sack percentage went from 8.2% (2nd) to 6.3% (20th)
I can say that not having Von can skew this number just a little this year

Quote:
We can talk all day about whether Philips made a good extra value meal or not. There's really no arguing whether he's good value for the money. Absolutely he is. But in my mind it wasn't worth the risk against what was one of the best pass rushing formulas in the league. The on-field product has done little to undermine that impression.
The amount that chaos Von created, forcing double teams and scheme changes I think really helped Elvis out. Lets see what a healthy Von next year and Philips can do.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:54 AM   #116
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While Doom is a factor here, Suggs is probably the larger factor. He missed half of last season and played far less than 100% when he did. 2 sacks last year, 10 so far this year.
I'm sure he is. But there's also a synergy to it some people like to dismiss too easily. In many cases one man's statistical success can be heavily attributed to the actions of another guy somewhere else.

My overall recollection is seeing Von clean up on QB's a lot more up the middle last year. And I don't think you can watch football for very long and not understand that Doom's edge rush is light years beyond Philips'.

That's not to say edge rush is everything. Too much can even be a liability. A seasoned QB will learn to step up into the pocket more when faced with that kind of a rush. But I think that's what really helped Von's stats more than anything. He knew where to be when those QB's got forced up into the pocket.

Losing Doom, we lost a dimension.

That's not to say Doom is the greatest there ever was, or that he was even a good 'value'. But at the end of the day VonDoom worked. It worked very very well. Dicking with it in the pursuit of 'value' during a Lombardi chase was the dumbest thing we did all offseason.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #117
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...our sack percentage went from 8.2% (2nd) to 6.3% (20th)
16 games with Von Miller last year. 9 games with Von Miller this year.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:59 AM   #118
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...And I don't think you can watch football for very long and not understand that Doom's edge rush is light years beyond Philips'.
Agree that Doom was a loss and that Doom > Phillips. I just think that dollar for dollar Phillips was a far better deal for the Broncos. The problem is that without Von and now Wolfe our pass rush has taken a huge hit.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:44 AM   #119
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Losing Dumervil was huge.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that the Broncos would have been a top 10 defense this year if healthy.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #120
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Agree that Doom was a loss and that Doom > Phillips. I just think that dollar for dollar Phillips was a far better deal for the Broncos. The problem is that without Von and now Wolfe our pass rush has taken a huge hit.
Dollar for dollar doesn't matter, at least to me, unless it can be demonstrated that that money was responsible for talent put somewhere else on the field.

At the end of the day, Cap-wise we could've both kept Doom and ADDED Philips (though Philips may not've thought much of that opportunity). But let's not forget that I think the 4th biggest cap hit on this team's books is Doom's dead money from voiding his contract.

That's tough to reconcile with arguing 'value'

What talent did cutting Doom buy us? Simple question to answer. We maybe saved $3.5 million cutting Doom. But last I heard we're sitting on $7 million-ish in cap. Which would probably put us in the top 3rd of the league in cap space.

In terms of players on the field, cutting Doom bought us nothing.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:58 AM   #121
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how about a front office who put their eggs into Irving's basket.


Now that's one reason this defense looks the way it does.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #122
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The FO screwed up more with not securing a MLBer than replacing Doom with Phillips

A true smokedog like MLBer has to be a top priority next year
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:30 AM   #123
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The FO screwed up more with not securing a MLBer than replacing Doom with Phillips

A true smokedog like MLBer has to be a top priority next year
Imagine this team with a player like Luke Kuechly...
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:37 AM   #124
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Imagine this team with a player like Luke Kuechly...
Imagine it with Calvin Johnson, JJ Watt, Adrian Peterson, and a host of players drafted before our picks.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:38 AM   #125
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Elway, Fox and Del Rio standing pat with Nate Peg-Leg Webster and Stevie Wonder Johnson at MIKE (and bringing in Stewart Bradley, WTF?) was a terrible decision. Just terrible.
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