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Old 10-15-2013, 02:07 PM   #51
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Yeah. I was thinking of the blockade at Yorktown too. Seems like a pretty pivotal moment in history to me.
I remember a Time Magazine column, probably 25-30 years ago, in which the writer speculated if the US war for independence had failed. There was even a map - no "Washington D.C.", of course. I'd love to track it down. Piqued my nascent interest in alternative history.

One likely outcome? Slavery ends earlier and with no nasty Civil War.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:29 PM   #52
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If it wasn't for the French, we'd be part of the Commonwealth.
Thank Louis XVI.

We're talking about the post-monarchy modern age here, genius.

The floor is yours for "Indispensable Free-French Contributions to Modern Western Civilization"

Let's see how they stack up.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:30 PM   #53
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Thank Louis XVI.

We're talking about the post-monarchy modern age here, genius.

The floor is yours for "Indispensable Free-French Contributions to Modern Western Civilization"

Let's see how they stack up.
Without France, very likely no USA. Since the USA is the wellspring of all that is Well and Good of Western Civilization, what happens to your calculus?
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:33 PM   #54
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Without France, very likely no USA. Since the USA is the wellspring of all that is Well and Good of Western Civilization, what happens to your calculus?
Do you no a speaka de Engles?

That was the King of France trying to settle a score with George III.

How does that apply to the question of what landmark Western principles were a product of the French Revolution (or its aftermath)?

Or let me simple it down for you.

Beav: "You know, since the end of the Monarchy, France hasn't really done much"

Wagsy: "But what about what the King of France did?!?!"
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #55
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So wait, you didn't know Mao was a socialist? Maybe you should watch more Fox News.
You called him a "progressive," genius.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:41 AM   #56
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Some guys rank haute cuisine and fine wine higher than others I guess.
Ignorance really is bliss for you, ain't it? It's stunning just how ignorant you are.

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Of course it has, and it still can. But it can also make things dramatically worse. And has at times throughout world history.
So has dogmatically sticking to tradition.



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Yeah, totally. Those darn Democrats in Congress for most of that time, and their Conservative State Building. What up wit dat!
:eyeroll: Still haven't figure out the difference between the words conservative/liberal and democrat/republican, eh?
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:49 AM   #57
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Do you no a speaka de Engles?

That was the King of France trying to settle a score with George III.

How does that apply to the question of what landmark Western principles were a product of the French Revolution (or its aftermath)?

Or let me simple it down for you.

Beav: "You know, since the end of the Monarchy, France hasn't really done much"

Wagsy: "But what about what the King of France did?!?!"
This is your idiotic claim, verbatim: "France was a bit player in the development of modern Western Civ. "

Which is not what your weasilish nature is trying to spin.

The vast ignorance displayed by that comment isn't even worth taking the time to destroy.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #58
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If it wasn't for the French, we'd be part of the Commonwealth.
Potentially. It's unlikely, even with supplies and troops, that Cornwallis would be able to defeat us. It would have dragged out the siege at Yorktown based on how well LC was surrounded, but LC wouldn't have survived. It's believed he was the best General in the Redcoat Army.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #59
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This is your idiotic claim, verbatim: "France was a bit player in the development of modern Western Civ. "

Which is not what your weasilish nature is trying to spin.

The vast ignorance displayed by that comment isn't even worth taking the time to destroy.
"Verbatim" would require that you not lop off most of what I said.

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France was a bit player in the development of modern Western Civ. There's a reason they went from a major world power in the age of Kings to a me-too country in the Anglo-American age.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:27 AM   #60
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"Verbatim" would require that you not lop off most of what I said.

That you are happy to declare your ignorance of the timeline of the development of modern western society and that you like to make up historical "ages" does not help your case.

Go learn something. For hey-seus's sake.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:40 AM   #61
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Potentially. It's unlikely, even with supplies and troops, that Cornwallis would be able to defeat us. It would have dragged out the siege at Yorktown based on how well LC was surrounded, but LC wouldn't have survived. It's believed he was the best General in the Redcoat Army.
Without French aid, the fledgeling U.S. wouldn't have even make it to the battle of Yorktown.

No arms, no navy, no training, no real ability to oppose England. Hell we even had to get our uniforms from the French (hence why we share national colors).
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:53 AM   #62
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That you are happy to declare your ignorance of the timeline of the development of modern western society and that you like to make up historical "ages" does not help your case.

Go learn something. For hey-seus's sake.
It's obvious you're having a hard time tracking your own conversation. It's ok. I've spent time with special needs kids before.

You're the one who used France's 'fledgling democracy' as an example of a country using 'social equality' as a guiding principle. You used this example because France's socialist democracy tendencies aligned better with your world view, while the Americans and British took a more Wealth of Nations approach early on. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

The real point is you highlighted France's version of democracy as bringing something special to modern Western Civilization.

I'm basically asking "Oh yeah, what is that?"

And the best you can come up with is there was a war fought by the King whom your 'fledgling democracy' executed only a few years later.

You can dress up your fail with deliberate ignorance and selective quoting all you want. But the fact remains that you still can't substantiate your own point.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:06 AM   #63
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It's obvious you're having a hard time tracking your own conversation. It's ok. I've spent time with special needs kids before.

You're the one who used France's 'fledgling democracy' as an example of a country using 'social equality' as a guiding principle. You used this example because France's socialist democracy tendencies aligned better with your world view, while the Americans and British took a more Wealth of Nations approach early on. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

The real point is you highlighted France's version of democracy as bringing something special to modern Western Civilization.
No, I said that the founding principals of both our democracies were shared.
(Founding principals developed and fostered, in significant part, by France and French thinkers.)

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I'm basically asking "Oh yeah, what is that?"
No, you're desperately trying to spin an epically sad display of ignorance.

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And the best you can come up with is there was a war fought by the King whom your 'fledgling democracy' executed only a few years later.
Oh, look, a straw man argument. Look how surprised I am by that!

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You can dress up your fail with deliberate ignorance and selective quoting all you want. But the fact remains that you still can't substantiate your own point.


Keep trying. It's fun to watch your squirm. Or better yet, do as I said and actually try to educate yourself about topics before wading into them.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:32 AM   #64
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No, I said that the founding principals of both our democracies were shared.
(Founding principals developed and fostered, in significant part, by France and French thinkers.)



No, you're desperately trying to spin an epically sad display of ignorance.



Oh, look, a straw man argument. Look how surprised I am by that!





Keep trying. It's fun to watch your squirm. Or better yet, do as I said and actually try to educate yourself about topics before wading into them.
The bible is more accurate than the archaeological record.

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Old 10-16-2013, 10:33 AM   #65
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The bible is more accurate than the archaeological record.

Someone here claimed that?
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:46 AM   #66
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Oh, look, a straw man argument. Look how surprised I am by that!
Speculating at what your argument might be as crickets chirp is not a Straw Man.

I guess we got another attempt at an answer: Some Founding Fathers read some French writing. Most notably that written by a member of the French nobility. Doesn't compare to the influence of the English or the Scottish enlightenment. Still, it was an attempt, so that's nice.

But since everything you've pointed to still predates the French Revolution, the question still remains: What have any of the various incarnations of the French Republic brought us? You know, between all the various episodes of wealth spreading and Napoleon worship?
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #67
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Speculating at what your argument might be as crickets chirp is not a Straw Man.
Making up and argument for me is exactly what a straw man is.

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I guess we got another attempt at an answer: Some Founding Fathers read some French writing. Most notably that written by a member of the French nobility. Doesn't compare to the influence of the English or the Scottish enlightenment. Still, it was an attempt, so that's nice.

But since everything you've pointed to still predates the French Revolution, the question still remains: What have any of the various incarnations of the French Republic brought us? You know, between all the various episodes of wealth spreading and Napoleon worship?
It's pretty funny. All your questions do is continue to elucidate just how horrible ignorant you are about modern history. The how, the when, the who, everything.

Like I said before I'm not interested in spoon feeding modern history 101 to you. Find some intellectual integrity, and learn about the topic before attempting to argue about it. When you can demonstrate something other than hopeless ignorance, I'd be happy to engage. There is the wealth of information quite freely available to you to do just that.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:30 AM   #68
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Like I said before I'm not interested in spoon feeding modern history 101 to you. Find some intellectual integrity, and learn about the topic before attempting to argue about it. When you can demonstrate something other than hopeless ignorance, I'd be happy to engage. There is the wealth of information quite freely available to you to do just that.

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I'm not gonna answer because you horrible ignorant!!!
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #69
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When a person claims the sky is pink with purple stripes, should time be wasted explaining the real color to that person?
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:08 PM   #70
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When a person claims the sky is pink with purple stripes, should time be wasted explaining the real color to that person?
An apt analogy for the claim that French Democracy was critical to modern Western Civilization.

You're right. I should not have wasted the time or effort.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #71
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An apt analogy for the claim that French Democracy was critical to modern Western Civilization.

You're right. I should not have wasted the time or effort.
PIKEW!
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:46 PM   #72
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An apt analogy for the claim that French Democracy was critical to modern Western Civilization.

You're right. I should not have wasted the time or effort.
Keep reaching. No one's buying your bluster.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #73
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Keep reaching. No one's buying your bluster.
Still can't come up with anything, huh?

Geez, even I could've come up with something decent by now, if only I'd known you'd be so easily stumped.

Last edited by BroncoBeavis; 10-16-2013 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:44 PM   #74
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Still can't come up with anything, huh?

Geez, even I could've come up with something decent by now, if only I'd known you'd be so easily stumped.


Bull****. Your record on answering questions is about as bad as it gets.

You'd be a great politician, if you weren't such a friggin idiot. Of course, you could always fall in and run with the Tea Party on that platform.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #75
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Hey, look. Mr One Liner wants substance.
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