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Old 10-09-2013, 09:19 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
It always astounds me the sheer level of vitriol that spews forth whenever this subject comes up.

Yes, I get that there are issues and complications to expanding the sport internationally, and maybe they will prove in time to be show-stoppers, then again maybe they won't. Only time will tell.

However, I genuinely get the impression that even if a way could be found to get around those issues, such that the sport grew successfully around the world, many of the posters on this board would still be against it. Which is staggering. Surely, even if complications cause issues in reality, isn't it still at least a good idea in principle to have the sport gain wider acceptance and purchase around the world?

Obviously I'm biased, living in the UK I would love to see the NFL become more mainstream here (which incidentally it may be starting to very very gradually do thanks to these international games) but I just struggle to understand why so many of you on this board seem to think that its a terrible idea BOTH in practice AND in principle. I just don't understand it at all.
if the rest of the world was interested then they'd have their kid's playing American football right?

This is just simple logic. It is a 1 to 1 correlation. Did you play American Football as a kid in the UK? If not, did you have the opportunity to play it as a kid? Are their coaches in the UK who know how to coach American Football and are actively putting teams together like a pee-wee league or something?

If you answered yes to these questions then yes, I think NFL football can be successful in the UK.

IIRC American football was started by US colleges and then worked it's way into high schools and then younger kids leagues and whatnot. However, it was started as a youth sport and then eventually the NFL got rolling. I'm not so sure you can put and NFL team in London or any where in Europe and all of a sudden expect the infrastructure for kids to play the game to pop up.

You gotta have a culture of American Football ingrained into the overall culture of the country in which you are expecting the game to succeed at a professional level IMHO.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:22 AM   #77
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Funny thing Mr Over reaction, I missed the part of the story saying Goodell is moving a team to the UK. But 85,000 fans at the game and over 500,000 at the football festival think you are an idiot.
yah because it's an event, a one time event. This doesn't mean it will work over and over and over, especially if the home team sucks.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:23 AM   #78
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There have been alot of articles over here on why a team isnt viable. Already some of the points have been addressed. However one thing is the NFL is overestimating the fan base thinking those numbers would hold up. I guess thats why they are pushing for three games as a 'test' because right now you are getting people from all over Europe that travel for the 'event' but that is not likely to hold up over a season or really be feasable.

Also, while I havent seen it discussed, I really think they need two Europe markets not one to make it a viable idea. You need a Berlin or whatever to make the travel make some sense, so you can 'stack' the schedule for two weeks at a time, plus then you get two 'Europe division' games a year with no travel issues.
What you really need is a European division. Amsterdam, Berlin, London and some other place. That would mean the teams over there would be able to play 3 of their 8 away games within the same time zone or just one time zone out. The problem right now is that putting a single team in London means that team has to play half their games every year at least 5 time zones over and especially games played in the mountain or pacific time zones would be played so late that there would be almost no home tv market.

The NFL lives and dies by TV contracts so having a team only having 75% of its games televised before midnight in any given year is a big problem.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:26 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
if the rest of the world was interested then they'd have their kid's playing American football right?

This is just simple logic. It is a 1 to 1 correlation. Did you play American Football as a kid in the UK? If not, did you have the opportunity to play it as a kid? Are their coaches in the UK who know how to coach American Football and are actively putting teams together like a pee-wee league or something?

If you answered yes to these questions then yes, I think NFL football can be successful in the UK.

IIRC American football was started by US colleges and then worked it's way into high schools and then younger kids leagues and whatnot. However, it was started as a youth sport and then eventually the NFL got rolling. I'm not so sure you can put and NFL team in London or any where in Europe and all of a sudden expect the infrastructure for kids to play the game to pop up.

You gotta have a culture of American Football ingrained into the overall culture of the country in which you are expecting the game to succeed at a professional level IMHO.
That is just not true. Basketball is huge in Spain despite it not being a popular youth sport at all compared to several other sports. The best way to make people begin to participate is to make it popular first, a culture doesn't shoot up on its own.

It is basically the Tiger Woods effect, one super star can change a sport from a niche to a main stream with youth.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:28 AM   #80
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That is just not true. Basketball is huge in Spain despite it not being a popular youth sport at all compared to several other sports. The best way to make people begin to participate is to make it popular first, a culture doesn't shoot up on its own.

It is basically the Tiger Woods effect, one super star can change a sport from a niche to a main stream with youth.
Basketball is popular all over Europe and is ingrained into many cultures in Europe. Kids all over Europe grow up playing BB.

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Old 10-09-2013, 09:50 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
if the rest of the world was interested then they'd have their kid's playing American football right?

This is just simple logic. It is a 1 to 1 correlation. Did you play American Football as a kid in the UK? If not, did you have the opportunity to play it as a kid? Are their coaches in the UK who know how to coach American Football and are actively putting teams together like a pee-wee league or something?

If you answered yes to these questions then yes, I think NFL football can be successful in the UK.

IIRC American football was started by US colleges and then worked it's way into high schools and then younger kids leagues and whatnot. However, it was started as a youth sport and then eventually the NFL got rolling. I'm not so sure you can put and NFL team in London or any where in Europe and all of a sudden expect the infrastructure for kids to play the game to pop up.

You gotta have a culture of American Football ingrained into the overall culture of the country in which you are expecting the game to succeed at a professional level IMHO.
it has to start somewhere. just because its not ingrained into the culture... that the nfl should just give up. it takes time. the nfl for once is doing this right. slowly introduce the game to the masses. add more games every year, do more analysis. if the sport picks up popularity, you will see kids in europe pick up a football instead of kicking a soccer ball.

i don't think we will see a team in europe for another 5 years minimum. if they do expand to europe, make sure its the UK and not somewhere to far east. logistics and time difference spells trouble for the folks here in America.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:58 AM   #82
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it has to start somewhere. just because its not ingrained into the culture... that the nfl should just give up. it takes time. the nfl for once is doing this right. slowly introduce the game to the masses. add more games every year, do more analysis. if the sport picks up popularity, you will see kids in europe pick up a football instead of kicking a soccer ball.

i don't think we will see a team in europe for another 5 years minimum. if they do expand to europe, make sure its the UK and not somewhere to far east. logistics and time difference spells trouble for the folks here in America.
fair enough but my point is that if people don't understand the game, that is, they didn't grow up playing it or watching their kids play it, they are not going to understand it nearly as well and yes, this creates problems. Heck, people in the US don't even understand the game. I dated a girl back in the day and we got to talking about football and she said "I don't understand it so no, I'm not a fan." So I explained the game to her, I had to explain the basics like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th down, why teams punt, why the chains are moved, how to get a first down, why there are certain penalties, etc., etc., etc., Once she had the basics down she was much more willing to be a fan. Now, this was a girl who was a freaking cheerleader and she still didn't understand the game!!

So my point is there has to be more than just the NFL, there has to be some cultural ingraining of the game for it to have viable long term success, that's my main point. If the foreign cultures are not willing to do this then I seriously doubt the game will succeed long term overseas.

Also, think about this: of the 4 major professional sports in 'merica, only NFL football relies soley on American players. MLB, the NBA and the NHL all have foreign players all over their rosters. Why? Simple, these sports are ingrained into other cultures outside of the USA and hence, these players come into the USA to play the game at a professional level. This is not the case for the NFL. Just food for thought.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:09 AM   #83
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Look, if you scour the internet, a lot of people in other countries do not really care for American Football. The people go to these London games because its something new. A lot of people don't really understand the rules, as Tombstone referenced, it just simply is not actively played and shown throughout the stages of life in other areas. I would argue it is due to NFL having more rules, more players required, etc than any other sport out there. Baseball only comes close, and that has been going on way longer than football has.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:14 AM   #84
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Enjoy your full priced season tickets!
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #85
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Right, but it appears as though the international travel you speak of only occurs with exhibitions? Do teams leave the country to play regular season games?
And maybe my perception is wrong but I think American football generally features more film prep and scheming than soccer. Obviously a soccer team is much more used to quick turnaround between games. 4 days is absolutely the minimum in the NFL and that's usually followed by a week plus break after.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:35 AM   #86
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And maybe my perception is wrong but I think American football generally features more film prep and scheming than soccer. Obviously a soccer team is much more used to quick turnaround between games. 4 days is absolutely the minimum in the NFL and that's usually followed by a week plus break after.
my point is about the logistics. it can be done. and we not talking about traveling by bus or by boat here. its going to be on a charter flight with top notch service and accommodations. this is not your usual united airway coach.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #87
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My only issue with this theory is it bails out the team from being crappy every year. If a team has a crappy record for a stretch and attendance falls, the team has a very real economic incentive to perform better. New Orleans has proven that if you provide a winner, people will go to the games. Now, instead of having to do that, the owners are finding they can just take the game from the city, get money, and force all those fans that wanted to go that year into the other 7 games.

Not selling out and being broke should be the punishment for being crappy for long stretches. That's the only true voice the fans have and is the only limiting factor on ticket prices. Let them keep artificially increasing demand by decreasing supply and the fans are the only ones losing.
Atlanta, and the Jagwads are fair weather fans. I have no sympathy for them losing a home game.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:54 PM   #88
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You've got to love how the NFL repays the American football fan, who has made them one of the most lucrative sports leagues in the world, by taking away their home games. That's really special.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:03 PM   #89
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Enjoy your full priced season tickets!
My God, yes.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:07 PM   #90
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You've got to love how the NFL repays the American football fan, who has made them one of the most lucrative sports leagues in the world, by taking away their home games. That's really special.
For Pittsburgh, Dallas, Denver and Green Bay (of course, other teams too), that would suck but teams like Jaguars suck so hard that I am positive that the season ticket holders would love to lose one forced home game and/or be able to sell their ticket in London for double/triple the price they paid.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:13 PM   #91
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For Pittsburgh, Dallas, Denver and Green Bay (of course, other teams too), that would suck but teams like Jaguars suck so hard that I am positive that the season ticket holders would love to lose one forced home game and/or be able to sell their ticket in London for double/triple the price they paid.
Let's not pretend it's only going to be bad teams that will lose their home games. Every team is going to get screwed sooner or later.
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:06 PM   #92
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The NFL just posted this graphic to facebook... thought it was relevant.

"What the NFL will look like in 2020"
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:48 PM   #93
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For Pittsburgh, Dallas, Denver and Green Bay (of course, other teams too), that would suck but teams like Jaguars suck so hard that I am positive that the season ticket holders would love to lose one forced home game and/or be able to sell their ticket in London for double/triple the price they paid.
Do they actually have rights to the London tickets? If that's true, then it's not such a bad deal for them.

Hell, if the Broncos ever play a home game there and I'd get tickets, I might think about making a bucket-list event out of it.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:19 PM   #94
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Basketball is popular all over Europe and is ingrained into many cultures in Europe. Kids all over Europe grow up playing BB.
All you need is a hoop, ball, and yourself. If someone shows up, you can play 1v1. Football/Rugby is terrible in that regards. And that's the problem with football on a world scale.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:42 AM   #95
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Jagwads are fair weather fans. I have no sympathy for them losing a home game.

So fans who pay for season tickets to watch a franchise that has sucked for more than a decade are "fair weather" fans?

****ty team + crappy economy + an oversized stadium = tarps. If you are a Jags fan and still pay full price to watch them after all these years of suck, you are a true fan. Unlike Oakland "fans" who are clearly just looking for a place to hide from their parole officer on Sundays.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:27 AM   #96
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**** London

**** Goodell
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:50 PM   #97
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The NFL just posted this graphic to facebook... thought it was relevant.

"What the NFL will look like in 2020"
They can't be serious. Ireland?
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #98
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Basketball is popular all over Europe and is ingrained into many cultures in Europe. Kids all over Europe grow up playing BB.
Not even close, basketball is a niche sport at best. In Southern Europe it is still behind cycling, handball, soccer, volleyball, tennis, golf and track and field. Basketball in Europe is a much smaller sport than soccer or tennis is in America.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #99
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They can't be serious. Ireland?
The map is what games have already been played. I thought there were more than one game in Japan. I believe that was the American Bowl Denver vs Rams. I got that poster framed. Might have been the first game outside North America.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:06 PM   #100
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Nothing very international about the "international series". Just say you're having games in London and be done with it. There's a market for games in Dublin, Amsterdam and Frankfurt and it would actually expand the profile of the sport. Aviva Stadium, Amsterdam Arena and Commerzbank Arena are all awesome grounds with about 50,000 capacity so they'd definitely fill it and build up a market.

However, we all know this has always been a thinly veiled move to get a team to London since the start.
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