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Old 10-14-2013, 01:38 PM   #1
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Default proposed debt deal complete

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/...can-party.html

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Do you want to know what Republicans get out of the proposed Senate debt ceiling deal? Nothing, but a crushing surrender.

Republicans will get no changes to Obamacare. They will get no further spending cuts. The government will be funded until mid-late December, and here’s the kicker according to Greg Sargent, “According to the Democratic aide, Dems are likely to demand a debt limit extension into early summer — nine months, rather than six – with the idea being that the closer to the 2014 elections we get, the harder it will be for Republicans to stage another debt ceiling hostage crisis. Democrats don’t want such a crisis. They would prefer that Republicans simply agree to extend the debt limit cleanly. But by pushing this so deep into the 2014 election season, they are giving themselves a kind of insurance policy that guarantees that if Republicans do stage another debt limit crisis, Republicans will pay a serious political price for it.”

If Republicans want the medical device tax repealed Democrats are going to demand that tax loopholes be closed for the wealthy and corporations, and Senate Democrats are even going to finally get the budget conference that they have asked the House Republicans for 18 times.

What do Republicans get out of this? Nothing, but record low poll numbers.

This deal, if it survives the House, would be a major victory for Democrats. It meets every single one of President Obama’s criteria. Obamacare (the ACA) is not changed. No budget negotiations occur before the government is reopened and the debt ceiling is raised, and there will be no short term threat of default by House Republicans on the debt ceiling.

Whether or not this deal, if this does end up being the deal, can pass the House is a whole different story. Boehner and the House Republicans are still harboring delusion that they will be passing a short term six week deal.


The reason why House Republicans want a short term deal is two fold. They view the CR and the debt ceiling as their last chance to kill the ACA before it is implemented fully on January 1, 2014. Secondly, vulnerable House Republicans want to avoid another crisis during the 2014 election.

By placing the expiration of the debt ceiling extension right in the middle of the 2014 election, Democrats are setting up a lose/lose scenario for House Republicans. Boehner and company will have to fight among themselves as the election campaign is going on. Another debt ceiling fiasco could tear open all of the party wounds, or Republicans could to again threaten default and lose the House.

A group of House Republicans and their Senate leader Ted Cruz thought they could ransom their way into killing the ACA. Instead, the Republicans are being offered a series of crushing terms of surrender that will be impossible for conservative activists and the tea party House GOPers to swallow.

It’s clear that by cutting this deal with Majority Leader Reid, Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans are washing their hands of the Cruz/Boehner folly. If the country defaults, it will be because John Boehner refused to stand up to his own House Republicans and do what is right.

Democrats and Senate Republicans are sending the signal that if the country defaults, the blame should go on Boehner and his tea crazed House Republicans. Harry Reid is laying out the terms of surrender. It’s unclear whether House Republicans realize that they’ve lost the war.

Last edited by peacepipe; 10-14-2013 at 01:41 PM..
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:47 PM   #2
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That's where the deal should rest, on the shoulders of the Tea Party crazies. They flung the ****. Let them clean up the mess.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:52 PM   #3
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But I thought it was irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:54 PM   #4
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Paul Ryan is trying to kill the Senate deal.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:54 PM   #5
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But I thought it was irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling.
So now Republicans approve of Bush's drunken spending spree?
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:58 PM   #6
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So now Republicans approve of Bush's drunken spending spree?
Do the dems? Is there really a difference?
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:00 PM   #7
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Do the dems? Is there really a difference?
Since the OMB says that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $178b, what's the issue? Looks to me like spending will be reduced, but the Republicans want to crash the government, and the world's economy, anyway. So, it's just for yuks?
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:05 PM   #8
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Since the OMB says that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $178b, what's the issue? Looks to me like spending will be reduced, but the Republicans want to crash the government, and the world's economy, anyway. So, it's just for yuks?
Not sure about the OMB, since that's easily the more hyper-partisan of the two main budgeting agencies. But the "deficit neutral" ship long since sailed according to CBO.

Especially since Obamacare banked Medicare savings and physician payment cuts that everyone knew would never see the light of day (which they haven't)

Oh, along with that whole 10-years of tax increases against only 6 years of coverage subsidies. Anyway, from this point forward, Obamacare (as a whole) does nothing but cost.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
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Not sure about the OMB, since that's easily the more hyper-partisan of the two main budgeting agencies. But the "deficit neutral" ship long since sailed according to CBO.

Especially since Obamacare banked Medicare savings and physician payment cuts that everyone knew would never see the light of day (which they haven't)

Oh, along with that whole 10-years of tax increases against only 6 years of coverage subsidies. Anyway, from this point forward, Obamacare (as a whole) does nothing but cost.
Actually, the CBO says that repealing Obamacare would increase the deficit.

The CBO refused to provide a new cost estimate for repeal, saying there is too little time before the vote. But Director Doug Elmendorf pointed to an estimate from July 2012 that abolishing healthcare reform would raise the deficit by $109 billion over 10 years.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...se-the-deficit

Thanks for the bull****, but no thanks.

So, what is the good reason the Republicans have for bringing down the country?
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:27 PM   #10
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I believe the plan was to get a Republican in the white house in '16, which is easier if the economy collapses and the blame falls on the kenyan socialist.

Instead they're realizing they'll lose the house if they keep it up, so they need a way out quickly while saving face.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:47 PM   #11
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Actually, the CBO says that repealing Obamacare would increase the deficit.

The CBO refused to provide a new cost estimate for repeal, saying there is too little time before the vote. But Director Doug Elmendorf pointed to an estimate from July 2012 that abolishing healthcare reform would raise the deficit by $109 billion over 10 years.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...se-the-deficit

Thanks for the bull****, but no thanks.

So, what is the good reason the Republicans have for bringing down the country?
One, I said "going forward" meaning "from now on" so you reference something from over a year ago.

And then there's that pesky gap CBO always has to deal with between what Politicians say they'll do and what they'll actually do.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...dodges-deficit

In other words, in the real world, Obamacare is a huge cost, which will only grow from this point onward.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:48 PM   #12
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One, I said "going forward" meaning "from now on" so you reference something from over a year ago.

And then there's that pesky gap CBO always has to deal with between what Politicians say they'll do and what they'll actually do.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...dodges-deficit

In other words, in the real world, Obamacare is a huge cost, which will only grow from this point onward.
OMB says bull****. CBO says bull****. BB says, who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #13
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I believe the plan was to get a Republican in the white house in '16, which is easier if the economy collapses and the blame falls on the kenyan socialist.

Instead they're realizing they'll lose the house if they keep it up, so they need a way out quickly while saving face.
If Boehner cuts off the radicals and goes with the Senate deal, the crazies will respond by trying to take down his speakership and replacing him with Cantor. Things could get a lot crazier before this is over.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:55 PM   #14
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OMB says bull****. CBO says bull****. BB says, who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?
CBO also said Medicare was going to slash reimbursements 20% 3 years ago

And it never happened. Yet they still count Obamacare's deficit impact as if it's going to. And it's not. Because, like Enron, DC Politicians lied to make costs look lower, and CBO is powerless to do anything about that.

GIGO.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:04 PM   #15
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http://news.yahoo.com/debt-ceiling-d...161907863.html

House Republicans met privately for more than an hour in the basement of the Capitol on Tuesday, but finished with no clear proposal for how to avoid a possible federal default.
“There have been no decisions about what exactly we will do,” Republican House Speaker John Boehner said after the meeting. “But we’re going to continue to work with members on both sides of the aisle to try and make sure that there’s no issue of default and that we get our government reopened.”
Translation: Republican leaders still can’t find the votes they need to pass a debt ceiling increase.
The federal government has been shut down since Oct. 1, and the Treasury Department says that Congress must agree to a plan to raise the federal debt ceiling by the end of the day Thursday so the government can continue to pay its bills on time. Failing to raise the borrowing limit could rattle financial markets and put the federal government at risk of defaulting on its debts.
While nothing conclusive came out of the closed-door House GOP meeting, which began with a group rendition of “Amazing Grace,” lawmakers who attended described a possible framework for a House proposal that could see a vote as early as Tuesday afternoon: In exchange for an agreement to raise the federal debt ceiling until February and reopen the government until January, House Republicans want a law that would force all members of Congress and top administration officials — including President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden — to enroll in the federal exchanges established by the Democrats’ federal health care law. They also are considering asking for a two-year delay of the tax on medical devices that also is in the health care overhaul.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:24 PM   #16
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But I thought it was irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling.
it's probably part of he plan to get rid of the tea party. It's been the narrative since the shutdown began.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:48 PM   #17
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The Tea Party has wanted to destroy our form of government for years. Why would they bother to negotiate now, when victory is within their grasp?
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #18
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Meanwhile we're now at the brink of another downgrade in the credit rating people.

The inability to compromise will cost US ALL again. And for what? The ACA is done. Everything now is just adding to the financial pain.

You simply cannot mess around with our rating. This time it's really interesting because it's not a case of 'cant pay' but rather 'WON'T PAY. There will most likely be a spike in Bond Yields, Mortgage Rates, and really anything that's interest rate related will be affected.

And this if all goes well which doesn't look good right now.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:58 PM   #19
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I can think of no greater encouragement to the rest of the world to look for a more stable currency elsewhere. The geopolitics of this whole thing is catastrophic. Of course, I doubt the majority of Tea Partiers could spell the word "geopolitic." All they care about is that danged Kenyan Muslim in the White House.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:13 AM   #20
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So now Republicans approve of Bush's drunken spending spree?
Do you recall any of the Bush blowers on this forum sounding the alarm re: spending at any time during Oil Boy's eight-year watch?

I certainly don't.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:25 AM   #21
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Meanwhile we're now at the brink of another downgrade in the credit rating people.

The inability to compromise will cost US ALL again. And for what? The ACA is done. Everything now is just adding to the financial pain.

You simply cannot mess around with our rating. This time it's really interesting because it's not a case of 'cant pay' but rather 'WON'T PAY. There will most likely be a spike in Bond Yields, Mortgage Rates, and really anything that's interest rate related will be affected.

And this if all goes well which doesn't look good right now.
"Hey, I can make my credit card payment this month. We should get more credit cards!"

Think long term man. Spending has to be cut if you care about this country's long-term credit rating. These fights are insignificant compared to our financial prospects ahead when our entitlement debts really come due.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:29 AM   #22
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"Hey, I can make my credit card payment this month. We should get more credit cards!"

Think long term man. Spending has to be cut if you care about this country's long-term credit rating. These fights are insignificant compared to our financial prospects ahead when our entitlement debts really come due.
Hate to break the news to but tax hikes are going to have to be a part of the deal. Cuts alone aren't going to do it.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:33 AM   #23
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Anyway, another few hours and this .shutdown will be over and the debt ceiling will be raised. And what will rethugs have to show for it? Nothing. Rethugs got their asses handed to them on this mess they created.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:38 AM   #24
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...st-this-battle


The rethugs have lost this battle pretty convincingly.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:39 AM   #25
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Hate to break the news to but tax hikes are going to have to be a part of the deal. Cuts alone aren't going to do it.
If you adjust what we spent in 2000 for normal inflation, it comes out to about $2.4 trillion today. We're spending $3.8 trillion.

Over the last 13 years, government spending is up 63%. That can't be sustained.
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