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Old 09-24-2013, 09:09 AM   #1
MplsBronco
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Default Cincinatti D Scoring Controversy

Hopefully this doesn't get moved too quickly. Anyway, I lost my fantasy game this week (by 4 points) in Yahoo due to their flip-flopping on whether to credit Cincy D with a TD. On the play, GB fumbled and Cincy Recovered (Nelson). Nelson then fumbled and it was recovered by his teammate (Newman). Newman returned it for a TD. Watching live, my gut reaction is that should not be a defensive TD. The best explanation I have seen online is:

"Yahoo's point is, Newman didn't recover a fumble while making a defensive play. Nelson made a defensive play and if he would have scored it would have been counted as a defensive TD.

You cant make a defensive play by recovering a fumble against you're own team. Anybody who recovers a fumble from their own team is making a offensive play."

Let's assume for a minute that Aaron Rodgers recoverd the Nelson fumble. GB D would be credited with the turnover even though an "offensive" player recovered it.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty interesting. Yahoo initially removed the TD but gave credit back to Cincy after pressure from fantasy owners.

Curious for thoughts from others.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:16 AM   #2
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Defensive TD. The score was while the defense was on the field.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:16 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by MplsBronco View Post
Hopefully this doesn't get moved too quickly. Anyway, I lost my fantasy game this week (by 4 points) in Yahoo due to their flip-flopping on whether to credit Cincy D with a TD. On the play, GB fumbled and Cincy Recovered (Nelson). Nelson then fumbled and it was recovered by his teammate (Newman). Newman returned it for a TD. Watching live, my gut reaction is that should not be a defensive TD. The best explanation I have seen online is:

"Yahoo's point is, Newman didn't recover a fumble while making a defensive play. Nelson made a defensive play and if he would have scored it would have been counted as a defensive TD.

You cant make a defensive play by recovering a fumble against you're own team. Anybody who recovers a fumble from their own team is making a offensive play."

Let's assume for a minute that Aaron Rodgers recoverd the Nelson fumble. GB D would be credited with the turnover even though an "offensive" player recovered it.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty interesting. Yahoo initially removed the TD but gave credit back to Cincy after pressure from fantasy owners.

Curious for thoughts from others.
That is kind of absurd. Newman was on a defensive snap, anytime anyone gets a turnover they become the offensive team technically. Just because their is a sudden change does not change who started on defense.

Think of it this way, the offensive team can not fumble the ball forward and still advance it, like Newman did. However, the defensive team may return a fumble forward except in the last 2 minutes of a game which is why the officials debated about whether it was a TD in the first place.

Yahoo needs to stop being stupid here, and actually let the NFL officials sort out stuff like that. If any of their team had watched the game and explanation they would never had made that error...
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:18 AM   #4
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I'd count it as a defensive TD.

The play was wacky, but at the end of the day it was the Cincy defensive unit scoring a TD.

I sat the Bengals D for the Bills because of the matchups. Like a boss!!
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:22 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input. There is a double standard here depending on who recoverd the Nelson fumble. As I mentioned, if GB recovers they get awarded a defensive turnover. I feel Yahoo got it right the first time but gave in to pressure.

And good point, Med. Why is it okay for "defense" to advance a fumble forward but not "offense". That seems like a flawed NFL rule.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:27 AM   #6
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And good point, Med. Why is it okay for "defense" to advance a fumble forward but not "offense". That seems like a flawed NFL rule.
Wouldn't that allow the offense to circumvent the illegal forward pass rule by "accidentally" fumbling the ball forward?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:28 AM   #7
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Wouldn't that allow the offense to circumvent the illegal forward pass rule by "accidentally" fumbling the ball forward?
I would think the rule should be ANY forward fumble cannot be advanced, regardless of who does it.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:31 AM   #8
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Thanks for the input. There is a double standard here depending on who recoverd the Nelson fumble. As I mentioned, if GB recovers they get awarded a defensive turnover. I feel Yahoo got it right the first time but gave in to pressure.

And good point, Med. Why is it okay for "defense" to advance a fumble forward but not "offense". That seems like a flawed NFL rule.
It was because of the old days when teams had no way to get forward when they were behind quickly unless they intentionally fumbled the ball forward (and usually out of bounds) and took their chances recovering it. That is when they outlawed the forward fumble for the offense. Remember, it happened to Decker when he fumbled the ball out of bounds earlier this year and they put the ball back to the spot where he fumbled it not where it went out of bounds...

For the Defense, they let it go because no one wants to do that on purpose and can plan for it ahead of time, since they do not know when they will recover a fumble... The last 2 minutes part is interesting though as they seem to believe they might actually do it on purpose there? First time I have ever thought about it really.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #9
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for what its worth..ESPN gave me the touchdown in my league.

Last edited by slatimer; 09-24-2013 at 09:35 AM..
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:35 AM   #10
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I would think the rule should be ANY forward fumble cannot be advanced, regardless of who does it.
If I remember right I think a fumble is ordinarily advanceable in most situations. But I think on 4th down and maybe the last 2 minutes (or something like that) the rule changes to take the Holy Roller off the table.

As for fantasy scoring, no brainer. It's a defensive touchdown.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:41 AM   #11
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As for fantasy scoring, no brainer. It's a defensive touchdown.
I disagree it being a no-brainer when you factor in other scenrios for recovery of the second fumble. If GB recovers the fumble and returns it for a TD, how do you score that? I think it should be a defensive TD because they were actually playing defense at that point, even though they are "offensive" players.

I think Newman should be credited with the TD and not Cincy team D.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:43 AM   #12
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It's a DTD
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:45 AM   #13
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I disagree it being a no-brainer when you factor in other scenrios for recovery of the second fumble. If GB recovers the fumble and returns it for a TD, how do you score that? I think it should be a defensive TD because they were actually playing defense at that point, even though they are "offensive" players.

I think Newman should be credited with the TD and not Cincy team D.
Well, the offense couldn't advance on that play, because it was 4th down. But in another situation, if say a TE picked up the ball and scored with it, I'd assume he'd net at least a fantasy TD out of the deal. Maybe even the yards. If it was a fumbled pass, not sure what the QB might get.

I'm sure it depends some on the league. Alot of ins and outs there that could be handled different ways.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:45 AM   #14
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its a defense td, all day every day in every single fantasy league known to man that is NOT IDP, unless yours is screwy.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:53 AM   #15
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mpls I have cincy too and it took off points, but now put them back up.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:53 AM   #16
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Well, the offense couldn't advance on that play, because it was 4th down. But in another situation, if say a TE picked up the ball and scored with it, I'd assume he'd net at least a fantasy TD out of the deal. Maybe even the yards. If it was a fumbled pass, not sure what the QB might get.

I'm sure it depends some on the league. Alot of ins and outs there that could be handled different ways.
Actually GB could advance the Nelson fumble because of the change of possession. 4th down was irrelevant at that point.

I just think it is interesting. Yahoo changed it back to DTD during the 4th quarter of the game last night. I had JT playing and all I needed was 8 points from him so was actually winning at that point and then they changed it back.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:57 AM   #17
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Actually GB could advance the Nelson fumble because of the change of possession. 4th down was irrelevant at that point.
Ya, that's true. Good point.

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I just think it is interesting. Yahoo changed it back to DTD during the 4th quarter of the game last night. I had JT playing and all I needed was 8 points from him so was actually winning at that point and then they changed it back.
Yeah, it's interesting to think through. I just can't see any good rationale for the defense being denied the 6 points they scored. If it were an offensive recover and TD, it could get a lot more messy.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:07 PM   #18
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How can it not be a Defensive TD when the Defense scored the TD
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:10 PM   #19
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Defensive TD. The score was while the defense was on the field.
That's what I would argue. If anyone on the defense scores while they are playing defense, it should be a defensive TD.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #20
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That's what I would argue. If anyone on the defense scores while they are playing defense, it should be a defensive TD.
I get all this but if GB recovered the fumble by the Cincy D player, then GB D gets the points for the turnover even though their D is not on the field. The argument is that the recovery of a teammates fumble and subsequent return for a TD is not a defensive action, therefore the PLAYER should get the points, not the team D.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:07 PM   #21
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I get all this but if GB recovered the fumble by the Cincy D player, then GB D gets the points for the turnover even though their D is not on the field. The argument is that the recovery of a teammates fumble and subsequent return for a TD is not a defensive action, therefore the PLAYER should get the points, not the team D.
No.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:07 PM   #22
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I get all this but if GB recovered the fumble by the Cincy D player, then GB D gets the points for the turnover even though their D is not on the field. The argument is that the recovery of a teammates fumble and subsequent return for a TD is not a defensive action, therefore the PLAYER should get the points, not the team D.
you need to have your commish adjust the rules then, every league I have played for in the past 20 years would NOT have scored points for GB d in your scenario.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:14 PM   #23
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How the hell did your league handle the Unrein TD catch last year?

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Old 09-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #24
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Move this FF crap to it designated area. OP is wrong big time.

Thank you,

BCJ
and Rock Chalk
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