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Old 09-29-2013, 05:14 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
Sorry all of those sacks except Phillips sack were due to Vick holding on to the ball and they were also when game was out of hand. Here is another example where you argue with stats and if anyone who argues with you uses stats you use that against them. If the offense keeps uo this pace it won't matter though.
They got pretty decent pressure on Vick the entire second half
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:23 PM   #102
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Madden is ruining America.


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Old 09-29-2013, 05:51 PM   #103
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1 of those scores in exhibition time.
Yep, and I'd like to review it again but I thought there was an illegal block while the ball was in the air.
Denver's D is playing really good.
No Duke today either, or I didn't see him. Anybody know for sure?
Webster continues to hit ferociously!
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:00 PM   #104
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Uh Duke lead the team in tackles. How the hell do you miss him? You thinking Webster maybe... He only had a couple plays.

Btw, Chris Clark was a stud today... Even with Twilight in the game.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:05 PM   #105
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They definitely improved in the second half. This is not an elite defense right now, but it is pretty good. Plenty good when you have the offense and special teams we have.
Yup, this exactly. Very good defense but 18 makes them look better than they are. Von's return will bring the D up a notch.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:35 PM   #106
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You say "argue with stats" when the reality is I'm the only one using ANY supportive evidence.

You understand that against Vick they had to play the pocket the first then rush the passer, yes? And despite that, the Broncos had 3 sacks (which in a game would be well enough on pace to be #1 in the league last season) and what is likely well into double digits on QB hits.

So, by all means, attempt to support your opinion with something factual and grounded in reality for once.
There really isn't any stats for sacks when the QB is in the pocket for greater than 5 seconds. There will be a team that will exploit the lack of pressure and not drop wide open passes. Like I said before as long as the Offense/special teams is putting up huge points it won't matter but I'm not going to pretend like the defensive line is CONSISTENTLY winning their one on one matchups. The one on one matchups are huge late in the year and in the playoffs.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:03 PM   #107
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If Vick didn't have 4.3 speed, Broncos Defense would have sacks ending 2 of Eagles first 3 drives.

Instead, the Broncos Defense spent nearly 15 minutes straight on the field due to Holliday TD, and Broncos quick 3-and-out. Then Philly used Broncos pass-rush against them for a 35 yard screen pass leading to their only TD against the Broncos starting D. Philly's starters didn't score the rest of the game.


Broncos are now tied for 11th in the NFL in sacks.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:10 PM   #108
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:14 PM   #109
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Yeah, JDR hasn't a clue.
I was referring to the first half. And I stand by what I said.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:14 PM   #110
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I'm not going to pretend like the defensive line is CONSISTENTLY winning their one on one matchups. The one on one matchups are huge late in the year and in the playoffs.
It'll make a slight difference once they move Wolfe back to UT, and replace him on the outside with Miller.

As it stands, I wouldn't be surprised if the Broncos are top 5 in sacks before Miller returns.

Last edited by pricejj; 09-29-2013 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:15 PM   #111
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I really hope he comes back angry and hungry. He's always been a bit laid back as a defender. The thought of him playing with a chip on his shoulder is scary.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:17 PM   #112
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:06 PM   #113
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They got pretty decent pressure on Vick the entire second half
Agree. Felt very similar to the Ravens and Giants games with the close first halves. Not sure whether our pressure steps up because of a change in approach or because the opponent has to start throwing more when they fall behind. Probably a little of both.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:08 PM   #114
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Agree. Felt very similar to the Ravens and Giants games with the close first halves. Not sure whether our pressure steps up because of a change in approach or because the opponent has to start throwing more when they fall behind. Probably a little of both.

I think Denver spends the first half feeling the team out. Once they figure it out, they focus on what will work. And to this point its been beyond explosive.


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Old 09-29-2013, 08:13 PM   #115
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Here's the Broncos pass-rush stats from the 1st half. Vick barely escaped at least 2 first half drive-killing sacks with his elite speed.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:20 PM   #116
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Here's the Broncos pass-rush stats from the 1st half. Vick barely escaped at least 2 first half drive-killing sacks with his elite speed.
Maybe you've never watched Vick play before, but he inflates those stats with his style of play. He holds onto the ball too long and tries to make something out of every play. He gets hit after his throws a lot because of this. Yes, in the first half we sometimes got pressure on him and he scrambled out of it. But I also recall more than a few plays where he had far too much time in a clean pocket. We did much better in the 2nd half.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:25 PM   #117
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We need to give credit where it is due. When Vick is on and running well and they avoid turnovers the Eagles have an O that is pretty scary. The D can't really attack the QB in the same way or he will run wild. They have a great running back and very good O-line. Vick made lemonade out of lemons about 6 times this game.

And we held them to 13 points until garbage time. And do you remember when we had Von against Cam Newton?

This D is very good and gonna move to scary once Von returns.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:26 PM   #118
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This defense looks great even with it's best player out. Just wait til Von comes back and we really get a pass rush to go with our lock down corners. Plus add Champ in the mix with that too.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:49 PM   #119
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:57 PM   #120
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Maybe you've never watched Vick play before.
Maybe you didn't watch the game. Broncos Defense held the Eagles starter's to 13 points, while harassing, hitting, knocking-down, and sacking the NFL's most elusive QB on a vast majority of his drop-backs.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:01 PM   #121
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Maybe you didn't watch the game. Broncos Defense held the Eagles starter's to 13 points, while harassing, hitting, knocking-down, and sacking the NFL's most elusive QB on a vast majority of his drop-backs.
But they got lots of yards so our defense must totally suck!!!
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:04 PM   #122
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Subtract the inevitable yardage Vick was going to get no matter what on the ground (41 yards) and add in the fact that McCoy was held to 4.5 ypc instead of his customary 6.9 and you're left with the best rushing team in the league compiling an inaequate running game that logged about 120 yard on the ground from the running backs...not nearly enough in a game like this. Put another way...this offense ran up something like 430 yards last week in spite of 4 turnovers. They didn't turn it over at all in this game, but imagine what the score would have been if they had? I'm sticking to my assessment, that his defense is nasty. It's fast, deep, loaded with playmakers and deep at every position. And we don't even have Champ or Miller in there yet. Denver needed to contain an explosive offense built on speed and keep them from big plays, which for the most part is what they did. Keep in mind...these guys haven't even played together for any length of time yet. Ihenacho is brand new, and so is DRC and Knighton. WWIII is brand new to the MLB spot, Danny Trevathan is a new starter, and Nate Irving is just starting to even approach his potential...this is a guy who almost died just a couple years ago and he's lucky to even be alive let alone playing in the NFL. When this bunch gets some familiarity with each other and grows in Del Rio's system, we're gong to have a monster defense here...wait and see. This is already probably a top 5 group on the back 7 in terms of speed and they are young. I just hope Del Rio doesn't leave for an HC job next year.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:36 AM   #123
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Maybe you didn't watch the game. Broncos Defense held the Eagles starter's to 13 points, while harassing, hitting, knocking-down, and sacking the NFL's most elusive QB on a vast majority of his drop-backs.
lol. Again, this happens to Vick against almost every team. The Redskins sacked him 3 times, Chargers twice, Chiefs six times. This is not a criticism of the Broncos so calm yourself. I'm just telling you not to get carried away with our pressure numbers from this game.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:08 PM   #124
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lol. Again, this happens to Vick against almost every team. The Redskins sacked him 3 times, Chargers twice, Chiefs six times. This is not a criticism of the Broncos so calm yourself. I'm just telling you not to get carried away with our pressure numbers from this game.
And we have just two games to go before the NFL's most prolific pass rusher returns. I'm not complaining about 7 sacks combined from Ayers and Phillips in just four games so far.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:04 PM   #125
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Go ahead and list our sacks and snap-to-sack duration?
That's what I like to do, actually count the seconds from snap to sack/hurry/pressure to get a more accurate account of what's going on.

Phillips got a sack clean just by blowing past his RT in just around 2 seconds which was a true speed rush sack.

Ayers sort of stumbled into his after 2.8-3 seconds or so and I think Woodyard or Wolfe finished it off.

All in all, I'd say both of you and DENVERDUI55 are right.

Our base lineman of Knighton/Vickerson/Wolfe don't beat their guys when it comes to pass rush but they are stout, strong against the run and do disrupt there.

Ayers, Jackson, and then Phillips are our best pass rushers and they do a very good job of beating one on one matchups, altho Phillips goes hot and cold.

Both Jackson and Ayers got consistent pressure on Vick and in the 2nd half when the Eagles more or less abandoned the option game and went traditional drop back passing, our DL and blitzing just abused them.

Malik Jackson especially was getting pressure from all angles, inside, stunting outside, at DE where he nearly destroyed Vick on one play only for him to duck under Jackson.
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