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Old 09-24-2013, 08:21 AM   #26
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I don't understand the hand wringing about "garbage points".

The game is well in hand at that point. Who cares if the other team scores a few garbage points?

Is winning by 2+ TD's no longer an acceptable blowout? Do we need to win by 40 before we are satisfied?

The Broncos are completely rolling teams right now. This game was over halfway through the 2nd quarter. I wish Ball didn't fumble, but that's really about it.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:38 AM   #27
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Where do you not see them winning one on ones? I see them winning one on ones at every position on a regular basis.
In the run game, no question they are Charlie Sheen winning on most plays!

However, they are not winning on pass plays very often up front without blitz scheme to pressure the QB and even on the back end they have made some major errors and simply been beaten in man coverages too often from what I have seen. Pryor is not quite very good yet and he still had time to make plays in the passing game and had several open players available even if he missed a bunch early with poor throws.

Sure, losing Carter and Nacho hurt in the second half, but Adams and Moore had major communication issues and Trevathan got beat several times in man by the TE Rivera on blitzes.

I guess your definition of regular basis may be different than mine here, but not enough plays are being made in the passing game to call them nasty right now...
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:44 AM   #28
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Where do you not see them winning one on ones? I see them winning one on ones at every position on a regular basis.
I don't see the DL winning one on ones in the pass rush department. Von should help that but they have been dominant in the run defense department.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:47 AM   #29
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Where is the love for Sly? I see everyone talking up the whole defense except for Sly. Sure he isnt racking up the tackles and sacks BUT he is taking valuable space for the others to make the plays, he has been a great addition so far.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:53 AM   #30
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...and simply been beaten in man coverages too often...
Made Denarius Moore (who?!?) look good last night. Need to clean it up or the Eagles will bust some big plays on us this Sunday.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:03 AM   #31
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In the run game, no question they are Charlie Sheen winning on most plays!

However, they are not winning on pass plays very often up front without blitz scheme to pressure the QB and even on the back end they have made some major errors and simply been beaten in man coverages too often from what I have seen. Pryor is not quite very good yet and he still had time to make plays in the passing game and had several open players available even if he missed a bunch early with poor throws.

Sure, losing Carter and Nacho hurt in the second half, but Adams and Moore had major communication issues and Trevathan got beat several times in man by the TE Rivera on blitzes.

I guess your definition of regular basis may be different than mine here, but not enough plays are being made in the passing game to call them nasty right now...
We played contain with him last night tried to have him beat us in the pocket through the air. No pressure means people will get open and Pryor took advantage of that.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:24 AM   #32
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We played contain with him last night tried to have him beat us in the pocket through the air. No pressure means people will get open and Pryor took advantage of that.
Do not be confused about how DEN played Pryor last night, they used a double twist stunt to make sure Pryor had no running lanes to the outside when they had no Spy dedicated to him in man coverage. They also wanted to gain more inside pressure to get him to make bad decisions.

Just because they ran stunts, does not mean they did not try and apply pressure. They just were not as effective as they wanted to be there or in regular pass rush mode when they dedicated a Spy on him in zone coverage.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
In the run game, no question they are Charlie Sheen winning on most plays!

However, they are not winning on pass plays very often up front without blitz scheme to pressure the QB and even on the back end they have made some major errors and simply been beaten in man coverages too often from what I have seen. Pryor is not quite very good yet and he still had time to make plays in the passing game and had several open players available even if he missed a bunch early with poor throws.

Sure, losing Carter and Nacho hurt in the second half, but Adams and Moore had major communication issues and Trevathan got beat several times in man by the TE Rivera on blitzes.

I guess your definition of regular basis may be different than mine here, but not enough plays are being made in the passing game to call them nasty right now...
That's crazy talk! What you're describing is the Redskins' D.

Everything you're attributing to lost one-on-one matchups is directly caused by two things:

1. Large point margin
2. Soft defenses

People aren't getting beat. They're playing off and even getting bored.

One could argue quality of offensive opposition, but that's the only legitimate concern moving forward.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:40 AM   #34
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That's crazy talk! What you're describing is the Redskins' D.

Everything you're attributing to lost one-on-one matchups is directly caused by two things:

1. Large point margin
2. Soft defenses

People aren't getting beat. They're playing off and even getting bored.

One could argue quality of offensive opposition, but that's the only legitimate concern moving forward.
I am not watching the Redskins "D" at all, that is way too painful right now

I disagree with people not getting beat, I do agree the quality of the QB's to do something about it has not been very good. Eli has struggled horribly this year and Pryor as I said missed a lot early.

I am also not giving them a pass for not playing 60 minutes either. You might be ok with calling them bored, but I never will and you know that. DRC got beat straight up several times by Denarius Moore last night before it was garbage time or he was bored. They did get tricked several times with the option pass play and read option.

They were very good last night against a very limited offense with a young QB who made some plays on them in the second half. However, Oak missed a bunch of plays early that they made late and that was as much a reason for those 3 and outs as it was straight up winning one on one IMHO. And, they still have not figured out how to cover Marcel Reece. I like that kid he played like a stud last night...
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:45 AM   #35
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A good passing QB would of had a great game last night. There were plenty of open players that Pryor couldn't find. Denver struggled getting consistent pressure against one of the worst OL in the league that is filled with cast offs and has beens. Reminded me of the Coyer D's back in the day with the lack of rush without sending extra guys.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:45 AM   #36
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Made Denarius Moore (who?!?) look good last night. Need to clean it up or the Eagles will bust some big plays on us this Sunday.
The other team gets paid too...they will make plays. But that long TD was a fluke. A nice 15-17 yard gain that turned into a 70 yarder because we went full retard
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:47 AM   #37
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A good passing QB would of had a great game last night. There were plenty of open players that Pryor couldn't find. Denver struggled getting consistent pressure against one of the worst OL in the league that is filled with cast offs and has beens. Reminded me of the Coyer D's back in the day with the lack of rush without sending extra guys.
Plenty of open players says the guy who im sure didnt want the all-22. And the defense we play week to week will look different depending on the team.

We also barely threw in a blitz. And essentially gave up 14 points (one of which was a fluke TD). But, by all means, its panic time.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:51 AM   #38
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Plenty of open players says the guy who im sure didnt want the all-22. And the defense we play week to week will look different depending on the team.

We also barely threw in a blitz. And essentially gave up 14 points (one of which was a fluke TD). But, by all means, its panic time.
Hell no, it's NOT panic time.

The name of the thread is this is a NASTY Defense implying they oppose their will on opposing Offenses. I am simply stating it is not Nasty yet and has plenty of issues with pass Rush that allows guys to come open even against good coverage right now.

There are plenty of negative threads out there, however this one would be full on homer to suggest this is an elite or nasty defense at this point IMHO.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:52 AM   #39
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Plenty of open players says the guy who im sure didnt want the all-22. And the defense we play week to week will look different depending on the team.

We also barely threw in a blitz. And essentially gave up 14 points (one of which was a fluke TD). But, by all means, its panic time.
I would take the all-22 not sure what that means. Your right Denver barely blitz but that still doesn't change my point that Denver is having trouble getting a CONSISTENT pass rush with the 4 down linemen. Von will help out for sure and it isn't panic time yet. It is just a point that I am concerned with because the Oakland Offensive line is terrible.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:54 AM   #40
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Hell no, it's NOT panic time.

The name of the thread is this is a NASTY Defense implying they oppose their will on opposing Offenses. I am simply stating it is not Nasty yet and has plenty of issues with pass Rush that allows guys to come open even against good coverage right now.

There are plenty of negative threads out there, however this one would be full on homer to suggest this is an elite or nasty defense at this point IMHO.
Fair enough. I def. don't think its elite. But i dont think last night's performance was indicative of a paper tiger either.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #41
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I would take the all-22 not sure what that means. Your right Denver barely blitz but that still doesn't change my point that Denver is having trouble getting a CONSISTENT pass rush with the 4 down linemen. Von will help out for sure and it isn't panic time yet. It is just a point that I am concerned with because the Oakland Offensive line is terrible.
Sorry, i meant watch the all-22.

And I agree the pass rush wasnt amazing yesterday, but they also seemed very concerned with keeping Pryor contained. Which they did a pretty decent job of doing.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:02 AM   #42
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Everything you're attributing to lost one-on-one matchups is directly caused by two things:

1. Large point margin
2. Soft defenses

People aren't getting beat. They're playing off and even getting bored.
Joe Flacco had 183 yards passing in the first half against us in week 1.
Eli Manning had 180 yards passing in the first half against us in week 2.

Both of those are too much to give up in a half, and neither can or should be attributed to a "large point margin" or players being "bored" since both opponents were very much in the game in the first half. Translation: somebody was getting beat.

Panic time? No. Improvement needed? Yes.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:04 AM   #43
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But that long TD was a fluke.
The getting soundly beat part wasn't a fluke. But yes, the part where the defenders ran into each other and fell down allowing a long TD was a bit flukey.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #44
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@TerrellePryor: Sorry about the loss RaiderNation. I don't remember much ! Good hit by whoever it was. I heard our team fought well .. We will be back!
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:06 AM   #45
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The getting soundly beat part wasn't a fluke. But yes, the part where the defenders ran into each other and fell down allowing a long TD was a bit flukey.
Soundly getting beat for a 15 yard gain. It's gonna happen. its not gonna be 3 and outs every time.

The other guys get paid too.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #46
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Conclusion: change the title of the thread to "This run defense is nasty" and nobody has a problem.

43 rushing yds per game (next closest gives up 66!). Even after last night's game, Oakland is still #3 in the league in rushing with 150 yds per game, so it's not like we have faced only creampuffs.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:12 AM   #47
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The getting soundly beat part wasn't a fluke. But yes, the part where the defenders ran into each other and fell down allowing a long TD was a bit flukey.
DRC was not soundly beat on that play, the fluke was his positioning after Moore had the catch. He was in trail technique but overran the WR's outside hip and instead of being underneath and going through him he got behind and inside of him right where nacho was coming to hit him.

The only thing I can attribute to that is he was trying to make up the position with the ball in the air and the WR adjusted to the throw and it got DRC on the wrong side and caused Nacho to drill him instead of Moore. That was the fluke.

What I am trying to figure out there is why Nacho and Moore were reversed in their roles and why Moore was so shallow with no receivers underneath unless he was Spying Pryor. There was a huge throwing lane there that even Pryor could put that ball on target.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:12 AM   #48
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They ARE playing nasty! Love it!

Now they need to take the next step and become DOMINATING! Me thinks it will take Champ and Miller to take this group to the next level.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:16 AM   #49
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This defense won't be recognized for as good as it is because they will be playing with a lead, and they will have to defend more possessions as fast as Manning scores. That said, Pryor looked pretty good last night, and the pass rush was almost non-existent. We need Von back, and that will change things A LOT...

The run defense has been amazing. Take out the one big run by Pryor, and the raiders were 16-26yds. Giants went 19-23 yds. Ravens went 21-58 yds (26 were on 12 and 14 yd runs by Rice and Pierce respectively).

Travathon, Harris and DRC have been awesome in coverage. Bring back Champ healthy, and get Von back to rush the passer, and the defense will be much better.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:16 AM   #50
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Conclusion: change the title of the thread to "This run defense is nasty" and nobody has a problem.
That's pretty much it. Just some puzzling lapses here and there in pass defense. Like the kind that cost us that playoff game last year.
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