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Old 10-08-2013, 11:55 AM   #526
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I agree with all of this. Citizens vote people into office to better serve this country. Having all these different groups fund a campaign basically means those groups buy their causes. Causes that weren't necessarily campaigned for or voted for.

At the minimum, I'd like a lot more transparency. Personally, would like to get rid of the Super Pac's and Corporate Donations. Doesn't have a place in a political system imo
Until we have public funded elections, it will be business as usual. Those candidates who can raise millions will continue to be the party choice and controlled by those who fund them. Fresh voices and ideas will remain sidelined in favor of the usual suspects.

This batch of politicians have turned the US government from one representing the world's economic powerhouse into something resembling that of a third world country.

On another note, The Economist is running an excellent commentary about the current standoff.

Democrats should tell Republicans what they really want

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BACK in the late 1990s a New York-based magazine ran a hilarious quote from a gorgeous Russian-born socialite who had been overheard expressing dissatisfaction with the monetary terms of her marriage to a wealthy businessman: "Why should he just get to sleep with me? No, I should get something too!" Something similar is going on in Washington at the moment, as one of the parties has begun describing things that were previously understood to be an intrinsic part of the arrangement of governance—not shutting down the government, not defaulting on the national debt—as if they were concessions for which it deserves to be rewarded. Barack Obama's position, repeated over and over for months, has been that allowing the threat of shutdown or default to become a routine part of budget negotiations will fatally cripple the government, and will ultimately guarantee a default sooner or later.

..................

When Mr Obama stops speaking as a partisan advocate of ambitious liberal goals, adopts his mature school-principal voice, and demands simply that political players adhere to reasonable norms of democratic governance, Republicans are left with nothing to oppose except the reasonable norms of democratic governance. At the moment, Republicans need to be reminded that Democrats do not want the government to reopen and the interest on our debt to be paid. They want the government to reopen, double its infrastructure spending and guarantee pre-school from age three to poor Americans; they want to pay the interest on our debt, then borrow more to run larger deficits right now and for the next couple of years, and lock in higher taxes five to ten years down the road to handle the long-term deficit problem. A fight between Democrats and Republicans over whether or not those are good ideas is a fight America can survive and even thrive with. A fight over whether or not to default on our debt isn't.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ.../10/shutdown-0
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:45 PM   #527
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the system to some extent,granted its not single payer per say,is already in place with medicare.
yeah, there just aren't as nearly many people on it. And there's a lot of changes being done to medicaid at the state level (at least in Kansas). We'll see how a lot of that pans out, but my guess is probably not good.

Implementing on a nation wide scale, would be a bigger task
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:40 PM   #528
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Until we have public funded elections, it will be business as usual. Those candidates who can raise millions will continue to be the party choice and controlled by those who fund them. Fresh voices and ideas will remain sidelined in favor of the usual suspects.

This batch of politicians have turned the US government from one representing the world's economic powerhouse into something resembling that of a third world country.

On another note, The Economist is running an excellent commentary about the current standoff.

Democrats should tell Republicans what they really want

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ.../10/shutdown-0
The last thing I want to see is government-run election funding. That would be an ultimate cluster ****, just like every other damn program the government funds. More bureaucratic bull**** and red tape.

Putting a cap on funding would be the way to go. Public funded campaigns is ridiculous.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:43 PM   #529
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The last thing I want to see is government-run election funding. That would be an ultimate cluster ****, just like every other damn program the government funds. More bureaucratic bull**** and red tape.

Putting a cap on funding would be the way to go. Public funded campaigns is ridiculous.
It's also begging for government abuse by placing under the auspices of the government free political expression.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:19 PM   #530
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This is why I think the core issue in America today is campaign finance reform. End Citizens United. End lobbying. America really needs to wake up to the real fight. TR pointed it out back in 1910: At many stages in the advance of humanity, this conflict between the men who possess more than they have earned and the men who have earned more than they possess is the central condition of progress. In our day it appears as the struggle of freemen to gain and hold the right of self-government as against the special interests, who twist the methods of free government into machinery for defeating the popular will. We have yet to win the fight, primarily because special interests buy government and government can stuff the legislation. It's like asking pirates to legislate away their own booty, figuratively speaking.
We also need electoral reforms, such as letting independent commissions draw district boundaries. Too many states let politicians draw their own electoral maps. Unsurprisingly, they tend to draw ultra-safe districts for themselves. This means that a typical congressman has no fear of losing a general election but is terrified of a primary challenge. Many therefore pander to extremists on their own side rather than forging sensible centrist deals with the other.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:42 PM   #531
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Post a credible source that agrees with you and states that private healthcare is not regulated.
Click the llink. You might learn something.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/bre...k-to-singapore

"Touting arguably the best health care system in the world and a per capita income higher than America, Singapore is the answer economists have no doubt been shouting at their televisions during every health care debate the last eight years. The Singapore health care system presents an ideal blend of left and right ideas on health care and still manages to be more free-market than U.S. health care has been since prior to the "New Deal." Due to the creation of Medicare in 1965, the federal government has been spending more each year on health care; which has brought us to a current rate of 17 percent of GDP on health care"...
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:47 PM   #532
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No, Denver Brit, the public and private healthcare sectors in Singapore DO NOT compete against each other. Taxpayer liability is limited to the heavily regulated hospital system. Whereas, the private family practice is free market, and largely without government influence.

If you have a minor, inexpensive, routine procedure you would go through your family practice.

If you have to go into the hospital for an expensive procedure, or lengthy stay, obviously you would be in the public hospital system, where costs are limited by government regulation.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:50 PM   #533
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You heard it here first: The U.S. will go to a single payer, universal health care system. And there will be price controls. It's only a matter of time, and how much money we want to waste, to arrive at that point of consciousness.
Not happening. Western European single-payer is unsustainable, arcane, unfair, non-innovative, and expensive compared to the alternative (Singapore model).

US healthcare spending - 18% of GDP
German healthcare spending - 12% of GDP
Singapore healthcare spending - 4%
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:35 AM   #534
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It's also begging for government abuse by placing under the auspices of the government free political expression.
Yeah. Much better to turn our elections into billion dollar dog and pony shows run by corporations, because, of course, if you don't like what the corporation is doing, you can always vote...

Oh wait, no you can't. Can you?

Known and rampant abuse up against some imagined abuse?
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:51 AM   #535
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Not happening. Western European single-payer is unsustainable, arcane, unfair, non-innovative, and expensive compared to the alternative (Singapore model).

US healthcare spending - 18% of GDP
German healthcare spending - 12% of GDP
Singapore healthcare spending - 4%
Can you list some examples of it being unsustainable? There's a long list of countries where you could make the argument that they have been both very sustainable and less expensive then current US healthcare spending.

Can't say whether it is particularly non-innovative, nor would I personally care. Although it's pretty clear, healthcare in the US is far from innovative.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:45 AM   #536
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Click the llink. You might learn something.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/bre...k-to-singapore

"Touting arguably the best health care system in the world and a per capita income higher than America, Singapore is the answer economists have no doubt been shouting at their televisions during every health care debate the last eight years. The Singapore health care system presents an ideal blend of left and right ideas on health care and still manages to be more free-market than U.S. health care has been since prior to the "New Deal." Due to the creation of Medicare in 1965, the federal government has been spending more each year on health care; which has brought us to a current rate of 17 percent of GDP on health care"...
A link to a "Tea Party" website is not a non-partisan independent research study. The RAND Corp study assigns the correct costs of the this problem.
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:41 AM   #537
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Can you list some examples of it being unsustainable? There's a long list of countries where you could make the argument that they have been both very sustainable and less expensive then current US healthcare spending.

Can't say whether it is particularly non-innovative, nor would I personally care. Although it's pretty clear, healthcare in the US is far from innovative.
Wrong answer. Nowhere is healthcare more innovative than here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/bu...cene.html?_r=0
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:00 AM   #538
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Wrong answer. Nowhere is healthcare more innovative than here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/bu...cene.html?_r=0
get a ****ing clue. you reply with something that is 7 yrs old and totally misses the point of the conversation. typical.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:18 AM   #539
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get a ****ing clue. you reply with something that is 7 yrs old and totally misses the point of the conversation. typical.
Does the age matter? Some more reading.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kennet..._b_807796.html

Quote:
While there are many opinions about our nation's health care system (particularly in Washington), there's one overwhelming area of consensus -- the United States leads the world in medical innovation.

In addition to the best and brightest practicing medicine and state-of-art medical facilities, we have benefited from having the best and, usually, the earliest access to the latest medical technologies and innovations. In large part, this is because they were discovered, developed and produced here in America.
and

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...399350874.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemar...is-threatened/

There is virtually nobody credible anywhere who would point to any other country as the leader in overall medical innovation.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:04 AM   #540
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_1...ogrammer-says/

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(CBS News) Healthcare.gov launched more than a week ago, and while millions of Americans have signed into the site, not many have been able to actually sign up for insurance because of glitches with the website.
...
No one knows how many people have managed to enroll because the administration refuses to release those numbers, but the website's launch has been rocky.

Media outlets have struggled to find anyone who's actually been successful. The Washington Post even illustrated that sought-after person as a unicorn, and USA Today called the launch an "inexcusable mess" and a "nightmare."
...
However, computer experts say the website has major flaws.

"It wasn't designed well, it wasn't implemented well, and it looks like nobody tested it," said Luke Chung, an online database programmer.

Chung supports the new health care law but said it was not the demand that is crashing the site. He thinks the entire website needs a complete overhaul.

"It's not even close. It's not even ready for beta testing for my book. I would be ashamed and embarrassed if my organization delivered something like that," he said.


By the time this is said and done, Democrats will be begging behind closed doors for Republicans to impose a delay on this dog****.

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Old 10-09-2013, 09:05 AM   #541
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The last thing I want to see is government-run election funding. That would be an ultimate cluster ****, just like every other damn program the government funds. More bureaucratic bull**** and red tape.

Putting a cap on funding would be the way to go. Public funded campaigns is ridiculous.
Have to admit that the thought of another government dept makes me nauseous, but public funded elections are a way forward and many states have already gone in that direction. It goes hand in hand with 'non public' contributions, which as you say, should be 'capped.' Campaign finance reform and electoral process reform are overdue.

Quote:
Public Financing in the States

Largely lost in the attention paid to national campaign reforms, a simultaneous and far more comprehensive public financing revolution was beginning on the state and local level. In 1957 Puerto Rico implemented the first public financing within the jurisdiction of the United States in the wake of the Costa Rican and Argentinean reforms. The Puerto Rican Election Fund Act, which provided significant block grants to the island’s two major political parties, was designed to reduce the dependence of the territory’s political parties on the powerful sugar industry and end the informal practice of requiring civil servants to contribute 2% of their income to the ruling political party.[13] Internationally, twenty German and Austrian laender and the Canadian provinces of Quebec and Nova Scotia had instituted public financing of local elections by the 1980’s.[14] However, there are no indications that public financing in American states was directly modeled on any of the local overseas measures.

In 1973 four states, Iowa, Maine, Rhode Island, and Utah, enacted the first public financing in the United States. The movement continued as the Watergate scandal heated up, with five more states passing public financing measures in 1974, three in both 1975 and 1976, two in 1977, and one in 1978.[15] In 1979, Seattle, Washington implemented the first municipal public campaign finance system.[16] State public financing of elections hit something of a plateau in the 1980’s, with only six states and two municipalities implementing systems over the course of the decade.[17] In the early 1990’s a number of states which had implemented the most comprehensive measures during the 1970’s reformed and expanded their systems.[18] The adoption of full public financing measures in Maine in 1996 and Vermont in 1997, heralded in a subsequent reform movement dubbed Clean Elections, which eventually spread to Arizona, Massachusetts, and the municipalities of Austin, Boulder, Cincinnati, Oakland, and San Francisco.

Between 1972 and 2001 fourteen local governments and twenty-seven state governments instituted public financing for at least some of the political offices or parties under their jurisdiction:
http://www.octobernight.com/bwyatt/chap1.htm

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Old 10-09-2013, 09:35 AM   #542
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Click the llink. You might learn something.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/bre...k-to-singapore

"Touting arguably the best health care system in the world and a per capita income higher than America, Singapore is the answer economists have no doubt been shouting at their televisions during every health care debate the last eight years. The Singapore health care system presents an ideal blend of left and right ideas on health care and still manages to be more free-market than U.S. health care has been since prior to the "New Deal." Due to the creation of Medicare in 1965, the federal government has been spending more each year on health care; which has brought us to a current rate of 17 percent of GDP on health care"...

I must have missed the section that claims Singapore has 'Unregulated Private Healthcare.' Would you mind posting it?

The Credit Suisse, Hong Kong office wrote an extensive survey of the Singapore private healthcare for investors.

Number 1 on the list of risks?

Risks

Regulatory

Quote:
Private healthcare operators, like Raffles Medical, are vulnerable to changes in policies driven by the government and its affiliated agencies, which license and regulate all medical establishments and healthcare professionals in the country and to a large extent therefore, influence the supply of medical infrastructure in the system. For now, we believe that reforms have been biased towards demand for private healthcare services which have likewise benefited the private operators.
And because you ignore anything that disagrees with your 'opinion'

Here a front page statement from the Singapore MOH: (ministry of health)

Quote:
Healthcare Regulation

Singapore's healthcare regulatory framework consists mainly of 2 parties; the regulator (comprising MOH along with its statutory boards) and the regulated (comprising public and private providers).

Healthcare institutions

All Healthcare facilities such as hospitals, medical centers, community health centers, nursing homes, clinics (including dental clinics), and clinical laboratories (including x-ray laboratories) are required to apply for licence under the Private Hospitals & Medical Clinics (PHMC) Act/Regulations.
End of discussion!

Last edited by DenverBrit; 10-09-2013 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:45 AM   #543
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No, Denver Brit, the public and private healthcare sectors in Singapore DO NOT compete against each other. Taxpayer liability is limited to the heavily regulated hospital system. Whereas, the private family practice is free market, and largely without government influence.

If you have a minor, inexpensive, routine procedure you would go through your family practice.

If you have to go into the hospital for an expensive procedure, or lengthy stay, obviously you would be in the public hospital system, where costs are limited by government regulation.


Really?

Quote:
Private healthcare Facilities

Private healthcare facilities in Singapore are as good as any in the world with excellent level of medical care and service levels. For non-Singaporeans, the difference in cost between government and private healthcare facilities is negligible as they directly compete with each other. Since private healthcare facilities in general offer better service level and minimum waiting times, most of the expatriates living in Singapore (as well as medical tourists from abroad) prefer to visit a private healthcare facility.
http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relo...e-in-singapore
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:17 PM   #544
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has pjj brought you your coffee & donuts yet?
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:26 PM   #545
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If there's one thing I know, it's the lunatic Right Wing. Watch. It's just about time for them to change course and start telling everybody, "It's not about Obamacare. It's about the debt! It's always been about the debt! In fact, the only thing it's EVER been about, is the debt! Hear me now and believe me later!"

And the trogs will suck it up. I don't usually go with the term "Orwellian" but this one fits to a tee. "The war is with Eastasia! It's always been with Eastasia!"

It just shows the power of having your own 24/7 propaganda machine.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:44 PM   #546
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has pjj brought you your coffee & donuts yet?
Soon as he's finished washing my car and picking up the dry cleaning.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:02 PM   #547
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If there's one thing I know, it's the lunatic Right Wing. Watch. It's just about time for them to change course and start telling everybody, "It's not about Obamacare. It's about the debt! It's always been about the debt! In fact, the only thing it's EVER been about, is the debt! Hear me now and believe me later!"

And the trogs will suck it up. I don't usually go with the term "Orwellian" but this one fits to a tee. "The war is with Eastasia! It's always been with Eastasia!"

It just shows the power of having your own 24/7 propaganda machine.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:24 PM   #548
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If there's one thing I know, it's the lunatic Right Wing. Watch. It's just about time for them to change course and start telling everybody, "It's not about Obamacare. It's about the debt! It's always been about the debt! In fact, the only thing it's EVER been about, is the debt! Hear me now and believe me later!"

And the trogs will suck it up. I don't usually go with the term "Orwellian" but this one fits to a tee. "The war is with Eastasia! It's always been with Eastasia!"

It just shows the power of having your own 24/7 propaganda machine.
Dude, the Obamacare delay train is just getting started. Tomorrow is day 10 in a 75 day enrollment window for many millions of people. And virtually none of it works.

The front end doesn't work. Insurers are saying the back end is feeding them garbage. Soon Democrats will be begging for Boehner to give them an out by making it look like he's pushing them into a delay, when really there's no other real choice.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #549
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Does shutting down government prevent it fixing the ACA website bugs??
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:36 PM   #550
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Does shutting down government prevent it fixing the ACA website bugs??
You'd think so. But no. They're working overtime, even over the weekend to try to make this anchor float.
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