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Old 09-26-2013, 01:32 PM   #251
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Taco good effort and you made a lot of strong points. At the end of the day the war forum is a liberal forum and they simply believe in more spending and want/need the government to take care of them. It's that simple.

Hell I don't even think there is a right or wrong. It's just the way it is. Some people look to the government for help and some of us prefer the government to stay our of our way so we can create jobs, websites, businesses etc.
Get over yourself.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:36 PM   #252
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You are clearly very confused. The cloture vote that matters happens this weekend. Cruz's opponent in 2018 isn't going to mention the vote that happened yesterday, are you kidding me? I can't decide if you're trolling me, or if you're really don't understand this stuff.
Who said 2018?

I said next.

Honestly, do you think Cruz's next "opponent" will be seeking his Senate seat? Is his own seat all you think of Cruz's political aspirations?

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

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Old 09-26-2013, 01:43 PM   #253
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Actually it's still around $1T a year in total spending (DoD, DoE, DHS, VA, treasury dept which pays military pensions, etc.). About $500bn/year more than just a little over a decade ago (inflation adjusted).
Uh oh. Now ant1999e's gonna come in here and claim you guys hate the military...
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:46 PM   #254
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Who said 2018?

I said next.

Honestly, do you think Cruz's next "opponent" will be seeking his Senate seat? Is his own seat all you think of Cruz's political aspirations?

Someone hasn't been paying attention.
Nice save. I'll award you full points on that maneuver (despite the fact that you earlier in this thread said that "Ted Cruz is Done.".

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Old 09-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #255
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Boehner says he will not pass a clean bill from Reid

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) insisted Thursday that the government would not shut down, but he also flatly refused to pass a "clean" spending bill to keep Uncle Sam in business next week when the bank account runs dry.

"I do not see that happening," Boehner told reporters on Capitol Hill after meeting with Republican legislators.

The House passed a measure last week to fund the government after Sept. 30 only if Democrats agree to strip spending from Obamacare. The Senate is in the process of removing the health care defunding and plans to send a simple spending bill back to the House by this weekend. That bill would keep the government running until Nov. 15.

Boehner declared, "I don't expect" the government to close. But he did not explain how he and his Republican caucus could amend the Senate bill, debate it, vote on it and send it back to the Senate for more action there before Oct. 1.

"There will be options available to us," Boehner said. "There's not going to be any speculation about what we're going to do or not do until the Senate passes their bill."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3996800.html
You guys like to get busy in the business of personal attacks... Let's keep this on track.

Boehner is going for concessions here. He's got an opportunity to show the base that he, too, can be a fighter. What's more - he'll get practically anything he asks for at this point.

So the question is - provided there is no surprises in the Senate between now and then - what trophy does Boehner get to hand to Cruz for these efforts?

After some discussion and consideration, I'm thinking it will be something in this neighborhood:
  • A 6-12 month delay in the individual mandate
  • A repeal of the medical device tax

These two things would play very well broadly with the American public and make good talking points for Republicans for the 2014 referendum on Obamacare.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:15 PM   #256
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You guys like to get busy in the business of personal attacks... Let's keep this on track.

Boehner is going for concessions here. He's got an opportunity to show the base that he, too, can be a fighter. What's more - he'll get practically anything he asks for at this point.

So the question is - provided there is no surprises in the Senate between now and then - what trophy does Boehner get to hand to Cruz for these efforts?

After some discussion and consideration, I'm thinking it will be something in this neighborhood:
  • A 6-12 month delay in the individual mandate
  • A repeal of the medical device tax

These two things would play very well broadly with the American public and make good talking points for Republicans for the 2014 referendum on Obamacare.
I am not certain Reid would accept delaying the mandate, it would be a loss of face. Boehner will presumably get some concession, but I think it will be fairly minimal, in the current climate it seems there is a pretty broad consensus that if government shuts down it will be blamed on congress and specifically Boehner which would not play well with an election cycle coming up in 2014, a democratic president and a democratic majority in the senate already - if the GOP lose control of the house in this next cycle it will be the end of the road for Boehner as a power broker.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:24 PM   #257
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I am not certain Reid would accept delaying the mandate, it would be a loss of face. Boehner will presumably get some concession, but I think it will be fairly minimal, in the current climate it seems there is a pretty broad consensus that if government shuts down it will be blamed on congress and specifically Boehner which would not play well with an election cycle coming up in 2014, a democratic president and a democratic majority in the senate already - if the GOP lose control of the house in this next cycle it will be the end of the road for Boehner as a power broker.
I think the GOP losing control of the House in 2014 is just as unlikely as them gaining the Senate. However, the Democrats hold all the cards here, as they have and will maintain control the Senate and presidency, and there is no chance in hell that Obama will sign a bill that does anything to make major changes to his signature piece of legislation, including the individual mandate. He has nothing to lose, so the ACA will remain as-is until he is no longer the President.

But you're right. The shutdown in 95-96 hurt the Republicans...not severely, but it definitely hurt. I think if anything, the GOP's best bet is to tack to the the moderate side, shrug off firebrands like Cruz and prepare for the next election.

Polls are showing that the public will hold them more accountable than the President or the Democrats, and polls also show that only the rightiest of righties want a shutdown, which will only accomplish one thing anyway: proving a point. The GOP may have gerrymandered their way into an easier way to hold the House, but the Republican "base" is not nearly as hard-line right as some people choose to think.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:07 PM   #258
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Anyone here truly understand obamacare? Read all 20,000 pages? Be careful what you wish for people........
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:19 PM   #259
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Anyone here truly understand obamacare? Read all 20,000 pages? Be careful what you wish for people........
There's the irony, I don't think anyone understands it all.

Yet many want it repealed, not negotiated or amended, just squashed......and I doubt they understand what they are doing.
Too much knee jerk, not enough compromise.

Neither side makes much sense.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:25 PM   #260
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Neither side makes much sense.
Agreed. Basic logic says to me if the system isn't perfect (yet functioning) currently why in the hell would we rely on the government to run it for us? Is there anyone here that truly believes the government can run this more efficiently? Anyone?
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:35 PM   #261
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Agreed. Basic logic says to me if the system isn't perfect (yet functioning) currently why in the hell would we rely on the government to run it for us? Is there anyone here that truly believes the government can run this more efficiently? Anyone?
The government isn't running it, the insurance companies are. Logic tells us that the more customers you have in a pool, the cheaper the rates are going to be. Now is everyone happy with the way things were handled? Obviously not. But you can't deny that most of the provisions in the law were things that were supported by conservatives 20 years ago, and disliked by liberals. Now liberals propose it, pass it (usually what we call a "compromise" in the political world), and the conservatives hate it. You've got to wonder what their motivation is.

I guess it also depends on what your definition of "functioning" is. I'm sure many have a different view of "functioning" than you do...the people who hit lifetime limits in their 30s, 20s or in the first few weeks after being born, people with "pre-existing conditions" found after years of digging by some shmoe behind a desk, young adults unable to find a job and parents of those adults concerned about their health now able to keep them on their policy, to name a few.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:25 PM   #262
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The government isn't running it, the insurance companies are. Logic tells us that the more customers you have in a pool, the cheaper the rates are going to be. Now is everyone happy with the way things were handled? Obviously not. But you can't deny that most of the provisions in the law were things that were supported by conservatives 20 years ago, and disliked by liberals. Now liberals propose it, pass it (usually what we call a "compromise" in the political world), and the conservatives hate it. You've got to wonder what their motivation is.

I guess it also depends on what your definition of "functioning" is. I'm sure many have a different view of "functioning" than you do...the people who hit lifetime limits in their 30s, 20s or in the first few weeks after being born, people with "pre-existing conditions" found after years of digging by some shmoe behind a desk, young adults unable to find a job and parents of those adults concerned about their health now able to keep them on their policy, to name a few.
The legislation is the size of a phone book and it's going to tax people who do not comply. Healthcare will certainly be controlled by the government.

As far as functioning goes I agree. Like I said earlier which wasn't too popular. Some people around here obviously want it and or need it. I guess admitting that makes it personal? Many people simply don't want it or need it. I went on record saying there is no right or wrong. People just have different expectations from the government.

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Old 09-26-2013, 06:51 PM   #263
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The legislation is the size of a phone book and it's going to tax people who do not comply. Healthcare will certainly be controlled by the government.

As far as functioning goes I agree. Like I said earlier which wasn't too popular. Some people around here obviously want it and or need it. I guess admitting that makes it personal? Many people simply don't want it or need it. I went on record saying there is no right or wrong. People just have different expectations from the government.
If you can't understand why framing people that disagree with you as leeches and/or unable to take care of themselves is viewed as a personal attack, you're beyond hope buddy.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:59 PM   #264
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this neighborhood:

[*]A 6-12 month delay in the individual mandate
If Boehner could delay the individual mandate (indefinitely) while retaining the sequester, it would be a win of epic proportions.

Still don't know where Democrats think they are going to get the money for Obamacare subsidies. The federal deficit will be at least $850B for FY2013 including a massive tax increase to start the year (and sequestration).

Lol that Obama will probably only able to get the federal deficit under $1T for one year of his 8 year presidency. The 8 largest deficits in American history, adding more debt than all the other Presidents combined.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:03 PM   #265
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I am not certain Reid would accept delaying the mandate, it would be a loss of face. Boehner will presumably get some concession, but I think it will be fairly minimal, in the current climate it seems there is a pretty broad consensus that if government shuts down it will be blamed on congress and specifically Boehner which would not play well with an election cycle coming up in 2014, a democratic president and a democratic majority in the senate already - if the GOP lose control of the house in this next cycle it will be the end of the road for Boehner as a power broker.
Reid won't have a choice but to accept whatever the house sends him if the hot potato ends up in his lap. I'm pretty sure it will be a one year delay on the individual mandate.

As far as blame goes, I'm sure the media will try to lay it at the feet of the Republicans, but ultimately, Obama would take the blame just as much as anyone. New polls out today are starting to show that. I'll try to dig them up...
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:04 PM   #266
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Logic tells us that the more customers you have in a pool, the cheaper the rates are going to be.

Come on... Really?

Nobody is price checking. What does it matter how big the pool is if nobody is price checking?
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:32 PM   #267
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So the GOP House doesn't even have the votes to pass their hostage plan, bwhahaha. What a comedic Party they've become!
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #268
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If you can't understand why framing people that disagree with you as leeches and/or unable to take care of themselves is viewed as a personal attack, you're beyond hope buddy.
You took it personally. I'm talking in general terms. More and more people are on welfare then ever before, taxes are on the rise, we're about to hit the debt ceiling again, infinite QE has not had the job creation results that were "wanted". Are you seeing a pattern? How many more failed ideas/policies can our country handle before it truly breaks?

I can see the headlines in a couple years. "Due to the cost of health Insurance we have no choice but to raise taxes on all Americans otherwise the economy will enter a depression". Rinse and repeat.

You want to see healthy Americans? We should be eating the same organic food you get at the White House. I had breakfast there last winter. Let me tell you the big boys are eating top notch while the masses are poisoning themselves with Mcdonalds, GMO food, coca cola and chemicals.

Fedyakin...I'm well beyond the right vs left battle. It's all BS and by design.

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Old 09-26-2013, 10:10 PM   #269
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The validity of the public debt shall not be questioned.

Ace in the hole, regardless of whether he says he'll use it or not. My guess is he won't even need to use it, because the Republicans can't get their **** together as it is.

Like I said, the Republicans have no hand to play here.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:23 PM   #270
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The Democrats are already starting to blink on a one year delay of the individual mandate. This is all playing out perfectly for Cruz. If he walks away with this trophy, he'll have accomplished killing several birds with one stone - showing up the Republican leadership and DC punditry class, and making 2014 a referendum on Obamacare, not to mention providing much needed relief for the American people.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...te_757177.html

This is playing out brilliantly for Cruz.

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Old 09-26-2013, 10:38 PM   #271
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The Democrats are already starting to blink on a one year delay of the individual mandate. This is all playing out perfectly for Cruz. If he walks away with this trophy, he'll have accomplished killing several birds with one stone - showing up the Republican leadership and DC punditry class, and making 2014 a referendum on Obamacare, not to mention providing much needed relief for the American people.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...te_757177.html

This is playing out brilliantly for Cruz.
Joe Manchin?

Okay.

How about the long laundry list of R's in the House who think Cruz is a fraud?
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:45 PM   #272
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Joe Manchin?

Okay.

How about the long laundry list of R's in the House who think Cruz is a fraud?
Show me one that crossed him in the vote to defund Obamacare? Cruz isn't up there to make friends with the old guard.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:52 PM   #273
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Show me one that crossed him in the vote to defund Obamacare? Cruz isn't up there to make friends with the old guard.
Scott Rigell
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:18 PM   #274
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Show me one that crossed him in the vote to defund Obamacare? Cruz isn't up there to make friends with the old guard.
"That crossed him"?

Please. No one is afraid of a first year senator with a 37% approval rating in his own state.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:53 AM   #275
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The Democrats are already starting to blink on a one year delay of the individual mandate. This is all playing out perfectly for Cruz. If he walks away with this trophy, he'll have accomplished killing several birds with one stone - showing up the Republican leadership and DC punditry class, and making 2014 a referendum on Obamacare, not to mention providing much needed relief for the American people.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...te_757177.html

This is playing out brilliantly for Cruz.
Manchin doing that to play to the folks in WV. He is the same guy that ran an ad shooting the original bill when he was running for the Senator Byrd's seat. But he will vote with his party for CR and tell his folks that he wanted to ensure that WV got federal funds and continue forward.

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