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Old 09-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #226
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All of them call themselves "non-partisan"

AEI, Heritage... Brookings, Commonwealth Fund, etc. Yet all have ideological bents.

non-partisan does not mean non-ideological. Commonwealth Fund is no more objective than Cato. That's not to say you can't listen to either or both. But one's face value is no higher than the other's.
So why don't you address the data The Commonwealth Fund is using.

Which is incorrect?? Based upon their history and the data that we see each year, I'd say little or none.

The US system has been broken for decades, whilst no system is perfect, we have a most dysfunctional and absurdly expensive system.

I just don't understand (never have) the resistance to updating our healthcare.......other than lobbyists influence.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #227
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Yeah, it sure sounds like Ted Cruz is finished...

https://soundcloud.com/senator-ted-c...z-talks-defund

Like with Coulter, I'm no fan of Limbaugh, but Limbaugh speaks to a large part of the base. The establishment is the one out on a limb right now. McConnell is about to get primaried...
Limbaugh? Really taco? The guy who compared obamacare to slavery? You've gone off the deep end
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:19 PM   #228
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Limbaugh? Really taco? The guy who compared obamacare to slavery? You've gone off the deep end
I don't get it? What do you mean "Limbaugh, Really taco?"

Do those words take away the enormous amount of influence Limbaugh has with the conservative base? Am I supposed to ignore that influence just because I don't personally like the guy?

I'm for discussing the substance of what his happening on the playing field right now, not talk about whether or not anyone likes the players in the game.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:06 PM   #229
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I don't get it? What do you mean "Limbaugh, Really taco?"

Do those words take away the enormous amount of influence Limbaugh has with the conservative base? Am I supposed to ignore that influence just because I don't personally like the guy?

I'm for discussing the substance of what his happening on the playing field right now, not talk about whether or not anyone likes the players in the game.
Nope, the guy is an idiot and so is Cruz,just because they have a big influence on all the wackos in the GOP does not mean that you guys will win the presidency. If you need an example look no further than what happened with Palin.they may fire up the far right but will turn off moderates.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:20 PM   #230
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Nope, the guy is an idiot and so is Cruz,just because they have a big influence on all the wackos in the GOP does not mean that you guys will win the presidency. If you need an example look no further than what happened with Palin.they may fire up the far right but will turn off moderates.
Not only will it turn off the moderates, it will turn off the majority of the "base". Hint: the Tea Party is not the base.

Just look at the latest Pew poll. The ONLY segment in favor of not compromising, of shutting down the government to get what they want, is the Tea Party. The rest is in favor of compromise, and it's pretty much at 60-70% across the board on all voting blocs except the Tea Party.

And they are in the vast minority.

But keep beating that drum. Hear me now, believe me later.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:36 PM   #231
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At the time of the above report (2010) Karen Davis was president of the Commonwealth Fund. Prior to that, she was a chairman at John Hopkins School of Public Health, which is arguably the best public health school in the country.
Carter Administration official, previously worked for the Brookings Institution (Liberal Think Tank)

Textbook.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:56 PM   #232
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Responding to the confusion in here about Cruz's vote today in favor of cloture...

There is a lot of confusion out there about which cloture vote is important. Even most of the pundit class doesn't understand this like they should and are making fools of themselves because of it.

This one that happened today was not important to oppose. Not matter what, the Senate isn't going to accept a house bill without amendments. Everyone knows that, including Cruz. There's nothing to gain by voting against this procedural step, which is simply to call up the bill for debate. Why would Cruz be against that?

The cloture vote today passed at 100%. What happens next is that Harry Reid will get first crack at the floor - he'll wipe out the house bill and replace it with his own, and THEN file cloture. THIS is the cloture vote that matters.

Here's Cruz's own words on the subject:
"The central vote the Senate will take on this fight will not occur today and it will not occur tomorrow. The first vote we are going to take on this is a vote on what is called cloture on the motion to proceed. Very few people not on this floor have any idea what that means and even, I suspect, a fair number of people on this floor are not quite sure what that means. That will simply be a vote whether to take up this bill and to begin debating this bill. I expect that vote to pass overwhelmingly, if not unanimously. Everyone agrees we ought to take this up, we ought to start this conversation.

The next vote we take will occur on Friday or Saturday and it will be on what is called cloture on the bill. That is the vote that matters. Cloture on the bill, the vote Friday or Saturday, is the vote that matters.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/gover...#ixzz2fyHbTLBB
So look at your calendar. Today is the 25th. The government shut down is October 1st. Cloture was filed today, so there is a 30 hour clock right now allowing debate on this bill (every bill is given at least 30 hours of opportunity for debate as part of the legislative rules around cloture). This also gives the people a chance to contact their senators and let them know what they think.

Friday is when the rubber meets the road in the Republican party, and those dudes are sweating bullets right now because Reid needs 60 votes for cloture, and there are 20 Democrat and 15 Republican seats in play for 2014.

Reid will get his cloture vote, but the score card for 2014 for the Republicans races will be set based on how this vote goes. Any of those 15 Republicans who vote in favor of cloture are basically voting in favor of being primaried - and many of the Democrats will be voting in favor of an expensive primary race.

So sometime Friday, Reid will pull his maneuver, and another cloture vote will happen, and once that vote passes (which everyone expects it will, including Cruz), Senate rules kick in and the floor will be open to debate Reid's new bill for 30 hours. Which means that it won't be until sometime late Saturday night or Sunday morning that they can vote on the final bill itself.

Sunday, the 29th.

...and it's not even done then because then the bill goes back to the House. I have no idea what is going to happen once it gets to that point.

Last edited by Taco John; 09-25-2013 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:06 AM   #233
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If you're explaining in politics, you're losing. Ted Cruz was the big loser in all this, his own party "f..ing hates" him and Obamacare is here to stay.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:20 AM   #234
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:25 AM   #235
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If you're explaining in politics, you're losing. Ted Cruz was the big loser in all this, his own party "f..ing hates" him and Obamacare is here to stay.
That's the thing. No one here is "confused" about a mundane political process like cloture.

There is a big difference between political science and political reality. If you don't understand that, regardless of whether it was a procedural vote or not, it will be brought up multiple times by Cruz's next opponent, and that he'll have to answer questions about it, and that it will have a negative impact on his campaign, well...you're living in a dream world, and probably think Rand Paul will be the next president. So there you are.

Look at John Kerry. "I voted for it before I voted against it." No one cared that it was a vote for a democrat-supported amendment to the bill that would increase funding for the troops. All they cared about was that it "seemingly" negated Kerry's vote against the next bill.

But whatever, you can't convince the deaf to hear.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:50 AM   #236
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Side note, CNN, MSNBC and that bastion of liberalism C-SPAN () aired Obama's speech about the ACA in Maryland this morning live and unedited.

Fox News ran an editorial on a Somali terrorist network and the government shutdown.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:56 AM   #237
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There is a big difference between political science and political reality. If you don't understand that, regardless of whether it was a procedural vote or not, it will be brought up multiple times by Cruz's next opponent, and that he'll have to answer questions about it, and that it will have a negative impact on his campaign, well...you're living in a dream world, and probably think Rand Paul will be the next president. So there you are.
Dream World as described by the guy talking about the risk of a Texas Republican Senator losing his seat to a Democrat over some Obamacare demagogue theater.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:18 AM   #238
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Dream World as described by the guy talking about the risk of a Texas Republican Senator losing his seat to a Democrat over some Obamacare demagogue theater.
Did I say democrat?

I said opponent.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:43 AM   #239
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That's the thing. No one here is "confused" about a mundane political process like cloture.
You are clearly very confused. The cloture vote that matters happens this weekend. Cruz's opponent in 2018 isn't going to mention the vote that happened yesterday, are you kidding me? I can't decide if you're trolling me, or if you're really don't understand this stuff.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:56 AM   #240
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You are clearly very confused. The cloture vote that matters happens this weekend. Cruz's opponent in 2018 isn't going to mention the vote that happened yesterday, are you kidding me? I can't decide if you're trolling me, or if you're really don't understand this stuff.
No he's not trolling but yes to confused and don't understand stuff................
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:04 PM   #241
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Taco good effort and you made a lot of strong points. At the end of the day the war forum is a liberal forum and they simply believe in more spending and want/need the government to take care of them. It's that simple.

Hell I don't even think there is a right or wrong. It's just the way it is. Some people look to the government for help and some of us prefer the government to stay our of our way so we can create jobs, websites, businesses etc.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:06 PM   #242
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What I don't get is all the teabaggers kept saying that Obama wasn't born in america, and now they are flocking to a guy that was born in canada and likes to read green eggs and ham, quotes duck dynasty, and star wars? yep you can't make this shet up.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:09 PM   #243
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...they simply believe in more spending and want/need the government to take care of them...
Oh good grief...
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:16 PM   #244
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Taco good effort and you made a lot of strong points. At the end of the day the war forum is a liberal forum and they simply believe in more spending and want/need the government to take care of them. It's that simple.Hell I don't even think there is a right or wrong. It's just the way it is. Some people look to the government for help and some of us prefer the government to stay our of our way so we can create jobs, websites, businesses etc.
That's the nice way to put it, but I prefer liberal circle-jerk. I think most of us agree that Rush Limbaugh is a radio personality that for the most part is an overbearing buffoon but to deny that he's not a major influence over the ultra-conservative vote is asinine.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:52 PM   #245
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Boehner says he will not pass a clean bill from Reid

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) insisted Thursday that the government would not shut down, but he also flatly refused to pass a "clean" spending bill to keep Uncle Sam in business next week when the bank account runs dry.

"I do not see that happening," Boehner told reporters on Capitol Hill after meeting with Republican legislators.

The House passed a measure last week to fund the government after Sept. 30 only if Democrats agree to strip spending from Obamacare. The Senate is in the process of removing the health care defunding and plans to send a simple spending bill back to the House by this weekend. That bill would keep the government running until Nov. 15.

Boehner declared, "I don't expect" the government to close. But he did not explain how he and his Republican caucus could amend the Senate bill, debate it, vote on it and send it back to the Senate for more action there before Oct. 1.

"There will be options available to us," Boehner said. "There's not going to be any speculation about what we're going to do or not do until the Senate passes their bill."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3996800.html
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:56 PM   #246
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Taco good effort and you made a lot of strong points. At the end of the day the war forum is a liberal forum and they simply believe in more spending and want/need the government to take care of them. It's that simple.

Hell I don't even think there is a right or wrong. It's just the way it is. Some people look to the government for help and some of us prefer the government to stay our of our way so we can create jobs, websites, businesses etc.
what a crock, there are just as many "conservatives" here as there are liberals.the only difference is that many only want to be conservative when a dem is in the white house. When it's one of their own they don't give a rat's ass about spending. For all the belly aching about food stamps and obamacare costs they pale in comparison to the $600 billion that is spent on defense each year. But the "consevatives" will get their panties in a wad if anyone dares mention spending cuts there.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:59 PM   #247
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That's the nice way to put it, but I prefer liberal circle-jerk. I think most of us agree that Rush Limbaugh is a radio personality that for the most part is an overbearing buffoon but to deny that he's not a major influence over the ultra-conservative vote is asinine.
wow, glad that you finally admit that the ultra conservatives are bufoons
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:06 PM   #248
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Taco good effort and you made a lot of strong points. At the end of the day the war forum is a liberal forum and they simply believe in more spending and want/need the government to take care of them. It's that simple.
Same old tripe. Can't deal with the actual conversation, so make (deeply flawed) personal attacks.

Pathetic.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:14 PM   #249
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what a crock, there are just as many "conservatives" here as there are liberals.the only difference is that many only want to be conservative when a dem is in the white house. When it's one of their own they don't give a rat's ass about spending. For all the belly aching about food stamps and obamacare costs they pale in comparison to the $600 billion that is spent on defense each year. But the "consevatives" will get their panties in a wad if anyone dares mention spending cuts there.
Actually it's still around $1T a year in total spending (DoD, DoE, DHS, VA, treasury dept which pays military pensions, etc.). About $500bn/year more than just a little over a decade ago (inflation adjusted).
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #250
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Obama wasn't born in america
Wow, I'm glad you said that not me ........
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