The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2013, 03:48 PM   #201
alkemical
Guerrilla Ontologist
 
alkemical's Avatar
 
rorrim|mirror

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 43,051

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Prima Materia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Yeah, but a war in Syria just wouldn't generate enough money to get us out of this economic mess. We need a bigger fish to fry. Iran. Or Russia. That would do it. The MIC could rake in some serious dough.
Serfs don't get spoils of war.
alkemical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 02:42 PM   #202
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,900
Default

Putin's next move?

This would not surprise me. MHG

The Syrian Gambit-The Next Surprise Move?

by Barry Lando

http://barrymlando.com/https/barry-landosquarespacecom/

Just a hunch, but Bashar al-Assad and Vladimir Putin may have another surprise chess move to play—one that may catch Israel and its U.S. ally completely off guard.

From the start, Syria’s leaders have viewed their Chemical Weapons as a kind of poor man’s weapon of mass destruction—an affordable way for them to present a meaningful deterrent to Israel’s overwhelming military might, and particularly to Israel’s nuclear capability.

As I previously wrote, that’s the bottom line of several serious studies of Syria’s weapons program, done over the past few years by American and other experts, such as Charles Blair of the Federation of American Scientists. Aa a paper published by the European Union’s non-proliferation consortium in July 2012, concluded, “Syria’s CWs are not tactical or battlefield weapons, but rather a strategic deterrence against Israel’s conventional superiority and its nuclear weapons arsenal.”

Now, Syria and its Russian sponsors have announced that Syria would be willing to give up its CW and sign the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The next move? What would be more natural than for the Assad and Putin to call upon Israel to give up its WMD —i.e. its nuclear weapons, and to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty.

A perfectly reasonable request, they would say. The U.S. and Israel and Israel’s backers would squirm and fume: Israel, after all, is a civilized state, they would say, run by civilized men, like Bibi Netanyahu not tyrants like Assad.

Will Assad and Putin make that move? It would seem a natural.
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 02:51 PM   #203
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,900
Default

When was the last time a US president spoke with the clarity and sanity displayed in Putin's NYTimes op-ed, yesterday?

You'd have to go back 50 years to JFK. MHG


September 11, 2013

A Plea for Caution From Russia
By VLADIMIR V. PUTIN

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...gewanted=print

MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 03:51 PM   #204
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 53,665

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

Der Gaffo doesn't realize that Russia is Assad's largest weapons supplier and probably gave him the sarin gas. Did Putin mention how this civil war got started? Assad's snipers were picking off peaceful protesters in the streets from rooftops. The leadership of the peaceful protests disappeared and haven't been seen since. Putin has vetoed every attempt made by the international community to bring any kind of relief to the Syrian people. He moans that the UN might collapse like the League of Nations and yet he is the one blocking every action the UN takes. Putin knows that Assad has killed thousands and was responsible for the chemical attacks (where the hell does he think the opposition would get chemical weapons?) and yet he has also blocked efforts to turn the whole thing over to the International Court which would investigate both sides.

Why am I not surprised that he's Gaffo's new hero? One of the biggest thugs on the world stage attacks America and what does Gaffo do? He shakes his cheerleader pom poms.

BTW, an old KGB spook lecturing Obama on "God creating us equal" is pretty damn laughable.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 09-12-2013 at 03:57 PM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 07:12 AM   #205
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Der Gaffo doesn't realize that Russia is Assad's largest weapons supplier and probably gave him the sarin gas. Did Putin mention how this civil war got started? Assad's snipers were picking off peaceful protesters in the streets from rooftops. The leadership of the peaceful protests disappeared and haven't been seen since. Putin has vetoed every attempt made by the international community to bring any kind of relief to the Syrian people. He moans that the UN might collapse like the League of Nations and yet he is the one blocking every action the UN takes. Putin knows that Assad has killed thousands and was responsible for the chemical attacks (where the hell does he think the opposition would get chemical weapons?) and yet he has also blocked efforts to turn the whole thing over to the International Court which would investigate both sides.

Why am I not surprised that he's Gaffo's new hero? One of the biggest thugs on the world stage attacks America and what does Gaffo do? He shakes his cheerleader pom poms.

BTW, an old KGB spook lecturing Obama on "God creating us equal" is pretty damn laughable.
Sorry, it won't wash. Ro, you should spend more time doing your homework.

We are witnessing a replay of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Assad probably has Sarin -- as a strategic weapon to be used against Israel as a last resort. He does not have tactical chemical weapons.

Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.

Ro can't face the probability that the opposition (Al Qaeda) did the attack -- to set up Assad. A classic false flag.

Ro also can't face the fact that a Russian pres has become more credible than our own. I agree it's a sad day -- but there it is.
MHG
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 07:36 AM   #206
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,142

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 08:00 AM   #207
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 53,665

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
Sorry, it won't wash. Ro, you should spend more time doing your homework.

We are witnessing a replay of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Assad probably has Sarin -- as a strategic weapon to be used against Israel as a last resort. He does not have tactical chemical weapons.

Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.

Ro can't face the probability that the opposition (Al Qaeda) did the attack -- to set up Assad. A classic false flag.

Ro also can't face the fact that a Russian pres has become more credible than our own. I agree it's a sad day -- but there it is.
MHG
You would call a trip to the grocery store a false flag operation. Nothing that ever happens is simply what it appears to be, right Gaffo?

BTW, if Al Queda got its hands on some sarin gas, it wouldn't waste it in Syria.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 08:05 AM   #208
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 53,665

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateHoboW/Shotgun View Post
Right wingers hate Obama so much, they're climbing on board with the KGB.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 08:23 AM   #209
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
When was the last time a US president spoke with the clarity and sanity displayed in Putin's NYTimes op-ed, yesterday?
GD, Gaff. That's some crazy **** you're huffing. Whatever it is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #210
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,268

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
Sorry, it won't wash. Ro, you should spend more time doing your homework.

We are witnessing a replay of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Assad probably has Sarin -- as a strategic weapon to be used against Israel as a last resort. He does not have tactical chemical weapons.

Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.

Ro can't face the probability that the opposition (Al Qaeda) did the attack -- to set up Assad. A classic false flag.

Ro also can't face the fact that a Russian pres has become more credible than our own. I agree it's a sad day -- but there it is.
MHG
You support any tyrant, no matter how evil, who's on the opposite side of the US. Pathetic.
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 10:26 AM   #211
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
You support any tyrant, no matter how evil, who's on the opposite side of the US. Pathetic.
Yep. gaffe wants the US utterly eviscerated and humiliated, regardless of context, because he views the US as nothing more than a tool of the Jews and only when the US is gutted, will we get rid of our Zionist puppetmasters and take back our country. He's just like Hitler. Always looking for a scapegoat.

gaffe sucks up to America's enemies because he's a spineless prick.
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 10:46 AM   #212
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,142

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Right wingers hate Obama so much, they're climbing on board with the KGB.
Just the same way you hated Bush and sided with KGB. What's the diff.
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 10:48 AM   #213
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,142

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 10:55 AM   #214
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,667
Default

W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 01:14 PM   #215
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 53,665

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateHoboW/Shotgun View Post
Just the same way you hated Bush and sided with KGB. What's the diff.
Everybody already knows you're a dumbass. You don't have to keep proving it over and over again.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 07:04 PM   #216
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,142

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 07:54 PM   #217
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,268

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Syria crisis: UN report to confirm chemical arms attack
A UN report expected next week will "overwhelmingly" confirm that chemical weapons were used in Syria last month, the secretary general says.

Ban Ki-moon made no comment on who was to blame for the 21 August attack in the Ghouta area of Damascus, as that is not part of the report's remit.

But he did say Syria's president was guilty of "crimes against humanity".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24088277
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 10:11 PM   #218
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,142

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
Syria crisis: UN report to confirm chemical arms attack
A UN report expected next week will "overwhelmingly" confirm that chemical weapons were used in Syria last month, the secretary general says.

Ban Ki-moon made no comment on who was to blame for the 21 August attack in the Ghouta area of Damascus, as that is not part of the report's remit.

But he did say Syria's president was guilty of "crimes against humanity".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24088277
But who fired the rounds?
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 08:17 AM   #219
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,667
Default

One of the godfathers of the Right, Faux News chief Roger Ailes, on Syria, in 2012:

Quote:
“Putin is angry. He thinks the United States doesn’t take him seriously or treat Russia as a major player. Okay, fine, that’s how he feels. If I were president, I’d get in a room with him and say, ‘Look at the slaughter going on in Syria. You can stop it. Do it, and I’ll see to it that you can get all the credit. I’ll tell the world it was you who saved the innocent children of Syria from slaughter. You’ll be an international hero. You’ll go down in history.’ Hell, Putin would go to bed thinking, ‘That’s not a bad offer.’ There will still be plenty of other issues I’d have with Russia. But instead of looking for one huge deal that settles everything, you take a piece of the problem and solve it. Give an incentive for good behavior. Show the other guy his self-interest. Everybody has an ego. Everybody needs dignity. And what does it cost? You get what you want you give up nothing.”
Roger Ailes's Syria solution
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 09:01 AM   #220
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
One of the godfathers of the Right, Faux News chief Roger Ailes, on Syria, in 2012:



Roger Ailes's Syria solution


I wonder how far back the conservative knob slobbering of Russian ideals goes back?

Perhaps the whole McCarthyism era was really one of those situations where someone protests so much against homosexuality and then gets caught with a male hooker in their hotel room.
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 09:49 AM   #221
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 53,665

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

The Right has always had a thinly disguised fondness for despotism.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 10:00 AM   #222
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post


I wonder how far back the conservative knob slobbering of Russian ideals goes back?
When the Right calls for "leadership", usually what they have in mind is a Putinesque authoritarian.
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 10:27 AM   #223
nyuk nyuk
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Obama rescued by a blue eyed ex KGB devil. Oh my!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 10:28 AM   #224
nyuk nyuk
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
The Right has always had a thinly disguised fondness for despotism.
How about a little context?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 10:29 AM   #225
nyuk nyuk
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
Yep. gaffe wants the US utterly eviscerated and humiliated, regardless of context, because he views the US as nothing more than a tool of the Jews and only when the US is gutted, will we get rid of our Zionist puppetmasters and take back our country. He's just like Hitler. Always looking for a scapegoat.

gaffe sucks up to America's enemies because he's a spineless prick.
Just replace the word Jews here with capitalists and you have much of the modern left.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Denver Broncos