The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-29-2013, 02:11 PM   #51
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
If I were Obama I would put it to a vote in congress, seems everyone in Congress is asking to be consulted but none as I have seen has said to put it to a vote. Everyone,especially rethugs, want to have their cake & eat it too. I would put everybody on the record.
That is the only route he can go without looking like a total fool and hypocrite on this issue. Even then there is nothing that says we always need to be in the van. The Brits are making noise saying this would be justified, and Israel's military can handle anyone in the region. Let one of them take the lead on this one.

The world knows what we're capable of. Sitting this one out unless absolutely necessary won't make people think we're weak. And if they do, well...that's their own mistake.
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 02:17 PM   #52
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 60,726

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

http://www.infowars.com/libya-and-sy...in-five-years/

Watch vid of Wesley Clark disclosing the long standing plan to attack 7 Middle East countries. The plan to engage Syria has just waiting for an excuse to jump in.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 02:22 PM   #53
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,859

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

There hasn't been a left-of-center Democrat with any real power in this country for over thirty years. Obama is to the right of Nixon. Truth hurts.

The propaganda says that there is a counter-balance on the Left. No there isn't. And there hasn't been for years.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 03:09 PM   #54
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,258

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
It's very telling how we're talking about attacking another country and the fact that people will die. That a government is poisoning and killing its own people and all you're worried about is saving face for your lord and saviour and the Party.
It isn't about saving face,it's about a bunch of cowards who want to b**** & complain but don't have the balls to own it with a vote. They want to sit back and say they were for it if its successful but want to point the finger if it isn't.
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 03:49 PM   #55
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,258

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

England is out, their Parliament just voted against any attacks and although Cameron voiced public support for it will not override the vote.
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 03:57 PM   #56
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,674

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
England is out, their Parliament just voted against any attacks and although Cameron voiced public support for it will not override the vote.
That wasn't as surprising as this:

Quote:
But - in an unexpected turn of events - MPs also rejected the government's motion in support of military action in Syria if it was supported by evidence from United Nations weapons inspectors, who are investigating claims President Bashar al-Assad's regime had used chemical weapons against civilians.
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #57
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
It isn't about saving face,it's about a bunch of cowards who want to b**** & complain but don't have the balls to own it with a vote. They want to sit back and say they were for it if its successful but want to point the finger if it isn't.
How would you define "success" in this scenario?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 05:38 PM   #58
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,838
Default

Good for the Brits. Hopefully we follow suit and tell Israel to attack Syria if they feel threatened. I highly doubt it.
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 05:51 PM   #59
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla!
 
L.A. BRONCOS FAN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location
Posts: 54,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
There hasn't been a left-of-center Democrat with any real power in this country for over thirty years. Obama is to the right of Nixon. Truth hurts.

The propaganda says that there is a counter-balance on the Left. No there isn't. And there hasn't been for years.
This.

At the end of the day, Obama answers to the same Wall Street masters as every president since JFK.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 05:57 PM   #60
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla!
 
L.A. BRONCOS FAN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location
Posts: 54,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
It's very telling how we're talking about attacking another country and the fact that people will die. That a government is poisoning and killing its own people and all you're worried about is saving face for your lord and saviour and the Party.
Sort of like you and your fellow Bush blowers with bogus Iraq intel?
L.A. BRONCOS FAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 05:57 PM   #61
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 60,726

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
This.

At the end of the day, Obama answers to the same Wall Street masters as every president since JFK.

You will want to watch this;

http://usawatchdog.com/time-to-tell-...d-karen-hudes/

You can thank me later
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 07:39 AM   #62
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,967

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

I wonder if we'll see demonstrations of "war with Syria all about oil?" No, I doubt it. The double talk is comical, but the norm. I still believe Iraq funneled weapons to Syria a decade ago, but it didn't fit the narrative at the time.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 07:49 AM   #63
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,258

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
I wonder if we'll see demonstrations of "war with Syria all about oil?" No, I doubt it. The double talk is comical, but the norm. I still believe Iraq funneled weapons to Syria a decade ago, but it didn't fit the narrative at the time.
Considering the crap you post,I'm not surprised.
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:36 AM   #64
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Considering the crap you post,I'm not surprised.
Well I mean, I suppose it's possible that Iraq could have independently and coincidentally had WMDs (that they subsequently got rid of in such a way that there was no trace of them)...

But the evidence the administration said they had has long since been proven to be doctored or fabricated entirely.



Like I said though, Obama has a long way to go in proving there is any reason at all we should go in there. The first step would be acknowledging members of Congress' wishes (180 now have signed the petition), calling them back into session, making his case and calling for a vote.

Even then I still don't believe we should commit military assets to the region (any more than are already stationed there), and considering now the Brits are sitting this one out, maybe you know, I dunno, taking a page from his own speeches and realizing that the international community has a voice too, and maybe, just maybe there is something to most of the rest of the world choosing to have nothing to do with it.
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 09:07 AM   #65
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 60,726

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
Well I mean, I suppose it's possible that Iraq could have independently and coincidentally had WMDs (that they subsequently got rid of in such a way that there was no trace of them)...

But the evidence the administration said they had has long since been proven to be doctored or fabricated entirely.



Like I said though, Obama has a long way to go in proving there is any reason at all we should go in there. The first step would be acknowledging members of Congress' wishes (180 now have signed the petition), calling them back into session, making his case and calling for a vote.

Even then I still don't believe we should commit military assets to the region (any more than are already stationed there), and considering now the Brits are sitting this one out, maybe you know, I dunno, taking a page from his own speeches and realizing that the international community has a voice too, and maybe, just maybe there is something to most of the rest of the world choosing to have nothing to do with it.
The trouble is O did not find out who his real boss was until he got into office.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 09:28 AM   #66
Bigloco
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Thought this was a decent opinion piece...other than the "christian" bs..

Obama, Don't Rush!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #67
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,258

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigloco View Post
Thought this was a decent opinion piece...other than the "christian" bs..

Obama, Don't Rush!
I don't know about it being decent but it is an opinion.

I
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:05 AM   #68
alkemical
Guerrilla Ontologist
 
alkemical's Avatar
 
rorrim|mirror

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 43,096

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Prima Materia
Default

So...did the CIA assist in chemical weapons usage in Syria?

Why is Saudi Arabia making raw deals to russia?

One other question, is i wonder whom declassified the Intelligence Agency's papers. I'd like to understand what was being looked for, or motivation.
alkemical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #69
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigloco View Post
Thought this was a decent opinion piece...other than the "christian" bs..

Obama, Don't Rush!
What Christian BS?

1. The arms supplied to the Islamic rebels may well be used against Christians;

I don't know what about this is BS.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:22 AM   #70
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
What Christian BS?

1. The arms supplied to the Islamic rebels may well be used against Christians;

I don't know what about this is BS.
Would the same statement with "Christians" replaced with "citizens" have achieved the same purpose?

Would the statement, as is, argued in Congress for the world to see help or hurt our standing with the Islamic world?
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:31 AM   #71
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
Would the same statement with "Christians" replaced with "citizens" have achieved the same purpose?

Would the statement, as is, argued in Congress for the world to see help or hurt our standing with the Islamic world?
Big picture, I get your point. Especially when it is suspected that Muslim extremists may be among the ones we arm. However, the attacks on Christians in Egypt are a concern.
I think it's too late to give them weapons. That train left the station long ago. I do believe Assad deserves a few cruise missiles up his ass. The retaliation from other countries (Russia, Iran) is a bit worrisome.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:33 AM   #72
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
Big picture, I get your point. Especially when it is suspected that Muslim extremists may be among the ones we arm. However, the attacks on Christians in Egypt are a concern.
I think it's too late to give them weapons. That train left the station long ago. I do believe Assad deserves a few cruise missiles up his ass. The retaliation from other countries (Russia, Iran) is a bit worrisome.
So we fire the missiles.

Then what?

Good plan.
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:40 AM   #73
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Point being, if the goal is to remove (or otherwise punish) Assad, there are other ways to do it. Just ask Israel, they are very good at removing people from power, and have been doing so for generations.

Maybe we can let them do it again.

Or do it ourselves.

If the goal is something else, I'd like to know what it is before we commit anything. Don't we as citizens have that right?

There is not always a need for boots on the ground to affect change. In fact, as the world changes and globalization becomes more entrenched, boots on the ground and conventional warfare makes less and less sense every day.

There is also not always a need for military action to prove we're big and bad. People start coming up missing and the US says "that's a shame, and he was such a nice guy" and shrugs their shoulders, people will fear us, but in a different way.

Do you really think Osama bin Laden was afraid of all our military might? Hell, do you think Hussein was? Yeah, we got him, but at what cost?
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 11:45 AM   #74
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
So we fire the missiles.

Then what?

Good plan.
I'm not the POTUS, that decision's way above my pay grade. Clinton did it a few times. Degradation will work until the regime is eliminated. Elimination would take boots on the ground and nobody wants that. If the dude's gassing his own people, we should do something about it. Sitting by and just watching is unacceptable.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #75
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,859

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Good write-up on Obama's three bad options: http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/opinio...st-bad-option/
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:43 AM.


Denver Broncos