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Old 08-19-2013, 05:12 PM   #76
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Really, how do you make that comparison? Irving hasn't played enough to determine his career path. Why is this board so quick to judge a player that never had the chance to play? These guys aren't first rounders for a reason. They need a chance to play and develop.
seriously, I'd like to see where the logic in calling him the next Chukwurah comes from because I don't see it. Aside from the dreads.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:14 PM   #77
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is it the dreads that make you come to that conclusion?
His best skill is rushing the passer off the edge in space, just like Chukwurah. But is better as a backup special teams guy, like Chukwurah.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:18 PM   #78
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Thank god. I've had enough of the Bradley/Irving show.


1. Trevathan should be MLB (bigger than Wood).
2. The only difference between Nickel and Base is Chris Harris and Terrance Knighton? Uh, please get Knighton off the field.
3. Wood gets blocked too easily (too small against OG's).

But, it's the best of a bad situation. Guess Brooking ain't coming back.
Still don't get why your down on Knighton..
Woodyard will not be engaging OGs directly very often, our DTs will be two gapping.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #79
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Really, how do you make that comparison? Irving hasn't played enough to determine his career path. Why is this board so quick to judge a player that never had the chance to play? These guys aren't first rounders for a reason. They need a chance to play and develop.
Uh, he's been in the league for 3 years. I have never once seen anything from him to make me believe that Irving is either an MLB, or a starter at any LB position.

1. Doesn't have the instincts, demeanor, or ability to play MIKE.
2. He's ok at making plays in space, but not fast enough to be a WLB.
3. Not better than Von.

Backup SOLB.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:21 PM   #80
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His best skill is rushing the passer off the edge in space, just like Chukwurah.
There are HOF players whose best skill was rushing the passer off the edge.

btw, I disagree with that assessment. He wasn't an edge rusher in college and I haven't seen a lot of his edge rushing prowess in the pros.

incredibly small sample size, but his instincts alone are better than Chukwura's. I don't get why you are so down on him when we haven't seen many meaningful snaps from him on d and when Jack of the River and Fox are set on him replacing our best defensive player pending the suspension.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:22 PM   #81
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Still don't get why your down on Knighton..
Woodyard will not be engaging OGs directly very often, our DTs will be two gapping.
Knighton did the same thing this game as last game. Get's moved off the line easily (unlike Bannan). Spends a lot of time on the ground.

Unrein started at 3-tech. Knighton started at NT, but isn't better than Vickerson. Pretty sure Vickerson will regain starting NT this week.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:22 PM   #82
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3. Not better than Von.
Dude, name 1 LB in the league that is. Come. on. that's really why you are knocking Irving?
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:26 PM   #83
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There are HOF players whose best skill was rushing the passer off the edge.

btw, I disagree with that assessment. He wasn't an edge rusher in college and I haven't seen a lot of his edge rushing prowess in the pros.

incredibly small sample size, but his instincts alone are better than Chukwura's. I don't get why you are so down on him when we haven't seen many meaningful snaps from him on d and when Jack of the River and Fox are set on him replacing our best defensive player pending the suspension.
Irving has made a few plays this preseason, while blitzing into the backfield. That's about all I've noticed. I'm not calling him an "edge-rusher" per se, more like a backup SAM in the Broncos scheme. Kinda like Boss Bailey, similar to Chukwurah.

He fits the position he plays now. I don't see him projecting to anything else. He could develop into a starter decent eventually like Mario Haggans, maybe.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #84
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Knighton did the same thing this game as last game. Get's moved off the line easily (unlike Bannan). Spends a lot of time on the ground.

Unrein started at 3-tech. Knighton started at NT, but isn't better than Vickerson. Pretty sure Vickerson will regain starting NT this week.
Knighton fell once against San Fran and otherwise looked very solid getting into the backfield, demanding a double team, and anchoring.

I will be rewatching the Seattle game indepth, but he looked very solid against San Fran. Both will be starting and two gapping base downs. You will see, as you acknowledged, we can't have WW engaging linemen. Our scheme protects our LBs.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #85
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seriously, I'd like to see where the logic in calling him the next Chukwurah comes from because I don't see it. Aside from the dreads.
Terry Pierce may be a much closer comparison
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #86
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Dude, name 1 LB in the league that is. Come. on. that's really why you are knocking Irving?
He's just not good enough to get on the field. That's all I'm saying. Not a starter. Not from what I've seen the last 3 years. Same thing for Bradley.

Starter on a bad team? Maybe. But not a superbowl contender. Not a top 5 or top 10 defense.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:32 PM   #87
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Knighton fell once against San Fran and otherwise looked very solid getting into the backfield, demanding a double team, and anchoring.

I will be rewatching the Seattle game indepth, but he looked very solid against San Fran. Both will be starting and two gapping base downs. You will see, as you acknowledged, we can't have WW engaging linemen. Our scheme protects our LBs.
I watched the whole Seattle game, but unfortunately I only recorded it for 1 hour. I noticed Knighton getting pushed to the side, and Bradley getting sealed off a couple times in the 1st drive, leading to complete breakdowns against the run. Knighton too slow in pursuit, and just never makes plays.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:35 PM   #88
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Let me address this size issue. It doesn't matter if he is 230 or 250. It's all about how he plays. I actually would prefer Trevethan at MLB and think he could play and hold up there.

Our DTs will be two gapping. That means whichever two DTs (Knighton and Vickerson) in whichever order along with Wolfe or Malik will all be two gapping in base downs. This will keep our LBs clean as there are more gaps filled allowing the LBs to flow.

Where I have the issue is Irving starting over Phillips at SOLB. I think Phillips would be a solid replacement option there, bringing a similar skill set. Irving may be better verse the run, but is that really worth sacrificing the pass rush Phillips offers?

It will almost be as if we are in Nickel, just with Irving at SAM instead of Phillips for whatever reason..
I agree with everything here. Al Wilson weighed 230 lbs. Trevethon is a tackling machine and he should be the MLB.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:41 PM   #89
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I watched the whole Seattle game, but unfortunately I only recorded it for 1 hour. I noticed Knighton getting pushed to the side, and Bradley getting sealed off a couple times in the 1st drive, leading to complete breakdowns against the run. Knighton too slow in pursuit, and just never makes plays.
It's not a common trait of a DT to be able to pursue and run plays down from behind. Vickerson has that kind of tenacity and is a reason why Knighton is our NT and Big Vick our more active DT. But they will both be two gapping running downs.

We agree about Trevethan at Mike, but I don't think it's just because he's bigger..but I disagree about Irving at SAM, I would prefer Phillips start at SAM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:47 PM   #90
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Well it looks as if Irving just couldn't hack it and Bradley has surgery


The plan showed itself very early on with Irving playing the Sam instead of Mike. I think Irving starts in Von's absence and Philips plays DE.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:49 PM   #91
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Still don't get why your down on Knighton..
Woodyard will not be engaging OGs directly very often, our DTs will be two gapping.
Knighton has been very disappointing so far. Look for Jackson to pass him on the depth chart. Due to his salary who knows if he'll even make the team.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #92
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wasn't the knock on Bradley was he cant stay healthy I didn't have my hopes up
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #93
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It's not a common trait of a DT to be able to pursue and run plays down from behind. Vickerson has that kind of tenacity and is a reason why Knighton is our NT and Big Vick our more active DT. But they will both be two gapping running downs.

We agree about Trevethan at Mike, but I don't think it's just because he's bigger..but I disagree about Irving at SAM, I would prefer Phillips start at SAM.
1. Woodyard can't shed blocks. Trevathan is bigger, might be better at shedding blocks (don't know yet). Why move Wood? Trev should be at MIKE.
2. I prefer Phillips at starting closed End, because Ayers isn't any good. But he would be good at SAM too. Probably better to put Phillips at SAM and Malik Jackson at closed End. Who knows.
3. Knighton and Vickerson didn't play together against Seattle. Who knows what their long-term plans are. I don't think Knighton can 2-gap very well. So why not have a guy like Malik Jackson or Mitch Unrein in at 3-tech instead? I think they are more immovable than Knighton.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:55 PM   #94
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Knighton has been very disappointing so far. Look for Jackson to pass him on the depth chart. Due to his salary who knows if he'll even make the team.
Jackson will be playing LDE in Wolfe's absence. I don't think Malik will be playing DT in base running downs. He's a disruptive DE/DT hybrid player. Good against the run and offers some explosiveness off the edge.

I think he's a much better fit at DE or inside in the Nickel.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:59 PM   #95
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Jackson will be playing LDE in Wolfe's absence. I don't think Malik will be playing DT in base running downs. He's a disruptive DE/DT hybrid player. Good against the run and offers some explosiveness off the edge.

I think he's a much better fit at DE or inside in the Nickel.
Malik played great against San Fran's 1st string OL at DT in Base Defense. Was one of the primary reasons for Colt McCoy's 3-and-out. Malik juked Iupati easily one of the plays.

But yeah, he will fill in for Wolfe the rest of the preseason. I still think he should start somewhere. He makes way more of an impact than Ayers or Knighton.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:02 PM   #96
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Knighton fell once against San Fran and otherwise looked very solid getting into the backfield, demanding a double team, and anchoring.

I will be rewatching the Seattle game indepth, but he looked very solid against San Fran. Both will be starting and two gapping base downs. You will see, as you acknowledged, we can't have WW engaging linemen. Our scheme protects our LBs.
THANK YOU! I have been saying that! I think he played decent against the Seahawks.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:02 PM   #97
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1. Woodyard can't shed blocks. Trevathan is bigger, might be better at shedding blocks (don't know yet). Why move Wood? Trev should be at MIKE.
2. I prefer Phillips at starting closed End, because Ayers isn't any good. But he would be good at SAM too. Probably better to put Phillips at SAM and Malik Jackson at closed End. Who knows.
3. Knighton and Vickerson didn't play together against Seattle. Who knows what their long-term plans are. I don't think Knighton can 2-gap very well. So why not have a guy like Malik Jackson or Mitch Unrein in at 3-tech instead? I think they are more immovable than Knighton.
1. Agree with most, Trevethan plays there in Nickel anyway, essentially that will be the same, except with a DT instead of Harris as you so kindly pointed out. Trevethan plays more physical and Woody is exceptional at what he does.

2. Now your talking my language about Malik! I think he starts at LDE in Wolfe's absence and could play RDE and DT in Nickel. I couldn't agree more with your suggestion. In fact right above your post I suggested this!

3. Right now they are experimenting with players and combinations to see what they have, this includes DT. I will watch and study the Seattle game and have further analysis. I'm not big on Unrein and don't think he makes the team necessarily. Because we are two galling on run downs, Malik would be better served playing DE and kicking inside in Nickel.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:06 PM   #98
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THANK YOU! I have been saying that! I think he played decent against the Seahawks.
I recorded the game, NFL Network replayed it today. I will have to watch analyze, but he played very solid against San Fran.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #99
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I'm not big on Unrein and don't think he makes the team necessarily.
Unrein was probably one of our best pass-rushers against Seattle. Had penetration on at least a few plays with the starters.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #100
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Unrein was probably one of our best pass-rushers against Seattle. Had penetration on at least a few plays with the starters.
JDR finally unleashed Unrein and turned him loose.
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