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Old 08-23-2013, 04:49 PM   #126
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CO2 doesn't create heat - its radiative properties lessen the amount of outgoing IR from the surface that can be emitted to space. Surface temperatures then increase until the energy balance is attained. Since warmer air can hold more water vapor, as the atmosphere warms, more H2O is evaporated and thus increases.

These two facts were known long before climate models existed.
Yes, I was aware that as a greenhouse gas, CO2 warmed via the greenhouse effect. And that it didn't spontaneously create chemical heat literally out of thin air.

Anyway, most models attempt to account for the water vapor feedback loop based on different understandings of it. It becomes difficult, as reality fails to meet prediction, whether the fundamental mistake is in overestimating CO2 warming, or overestimating the feedback loop. It could be one, the other, or more likely both.

But in any case, they're failing pretty badly at being predictive. And should not be relied upon for any kind of economic planning until reality falls in line (or their models can be adjusted, and proven to work)
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:54 PM   #127
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Anyway, most models attempt to account for the water vapor feedback loop based on different understandings of it. It becomes difficult, as reality fails to meet prediction, whether the fundamental mistake is in overestimating CO2 warming, or overestimating the feedback loop. It could be one, the other, or more likely both.
You're using the wrong measure to estimate GHG warming if you rely only on surface temperature.

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But in any case, they're failing pretty badly at being predictive.
By what measure? Please don't give us Spencer's mid-troposphere tropical temperatures spaghetti plot. It's bull****. I haven't seen any reference as what exactly his analysis was so it can be replicated. If you have his precise analysis, please provide it here.

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And should not be relied upon for any kind of economic planning until reality falls in line (or their models can be adjusted, and proven to work)
I'd rather rely on climate models for economic planning that economic models for climate planning. Economics isn't even a science. It's about 90% rationalist ad hoc mumbo-jumbo divorced from reality.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:58 PM   #128
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There you have it folks.

climate models in W*gs universe means one thing: a carbon tax.

And that translates to BIG money to be made.

It also means control by the banksters -- they will end up controlling it.

It also means a Nazi-style police state -- or as PCR would say -- a stasi police state -- six of one half a dozen of another -

W*gs is a carpet Capitalist -- by which I mean he would sweep everybody -- all of us -- under the bus -- while making off on a magic carpet of cash.

MHG

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Old 08-23-2013, 05:01 PM   #129
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There you have it folks.

climate models in W*gs universe means one thing: a carbon tax.

And that translates to BIG money to be made.

W*gs is a carpet Capitalist -- by which I mean he would sweep everybody (except himself) under the bus -- while making off with the cash.
Figures. Expecting a 9/11 troofer not to deny AGW is expecting far too much.

You're just a plain lunatic.

Who does video calls while he's pinching loaves.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:05 PM   #130
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #131
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #132
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:07 PM   #133
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #134
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:11 PM   #135
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No Al Gore, no global warming.

Yeah, right.

I hear he's kinda chubby, too.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:13 PM   #136
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Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth'? -- A $30,000 Utility Bill
Feb. 26, 2007
By JAKE TAPPER
Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.

Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:14 PM   #137
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No Al Gore, no global warming.

Yeah, right.

I hear he's kinda chubby, too.


Global Warming = Big Business, Really really big business.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:20 PM   #138
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Go ahead, knock Gore all you want.

Doesn't change a thing about the science.

Pretty lame on your part, actually.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:30 PM   #139
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Go ahead, knock Gore all you want.

Doesn't change a thing about the science.

Pretty lame on your part, actually.

Science is manipulated to fit the political agenda. There are too many variables to make these predictions.

When in doubt follow the money and look at the players.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:33 PM   #140
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Science is manipulated to fit the political agenda. There are too many variables to make these predictions.
Who's manipulating the science, and how can they get away with it?
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:38 PM   #141
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Who's manipulating the science, and how can they get away with it?

The One world order control freaks that need a common global threat (boggy man) to achieve their dream of One World Government - Global Warming is the perfect "enemy" to accomplish this and the cash cow part is a bonus.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:40 PM   #142
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The One world order control freaks that need a common global threat (boggy man) to achieve their dream of One World Government - Global Warming is the perfect "enemy" to accomplish this and the cash cow part is a bonus.
OK, how do they manage to manipulate all those data stretching back over a century?

Is every climate and other scientist who accepts AGW corrupt?

Your belief system is completely unbelievable.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:44 PM   #143
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Man, at least Beavis made an attempt to look like he knew what he was talking about, feeble though it may have been.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:49 PM   #144
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Man, at least Beavis made an attempt to look like he knew what he was talking about, feeble though it may have been.
You won't have to worry about these things the Lizard people are going to pay you a visit. They have your IP address. First you will notice the little things like feeling glad when you see a bug in your soup.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:51 PM   #145
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You won't have to worry about these things the Lizard people are going to pay you a visit. They have your IP address. First you will notice the little things like feeling glad when you see a bug in your soup.
I can always use a little extra protein.

I just don't like to get mine from PCR.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:36 PM   #146
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OK, how do they manage to manipulate all those data stretching back over a century?

Is every climate and other scientist who accepts AGW corrupt?

Your belief system is completely unbelievable.
A WHOLE century?

Damn, that's a LONG time...

Lol
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:22 AM   #147
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A WHOLE century?

Damn, that's a LONG time...

Lol
More than a century - in some places, much more - over just about the entire globe and consisting of observations of air, land, and sea.

baja simply doesn't have a clue. He's being very right-wing regarding AGW.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:57 AM   #148
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Follow the money.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:11 AM   #149
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Follow the money.
To where?

Just how were the data manipulated? Explain.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:16 AM   #150
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My guess is partly to you.
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