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Old 08-08-2013, 02:38 PM   #76
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I think when it comes to the inner city, white flight has brought back many of the practical problems of segregation.

And School choice maybe isn't the answer in and of itself. But you have to start with the kids. And throwing more money at the problem, if not to give those kids other options, is essentially doing nothing.

Those pockets of desperation need to be broken up. I can't think of any more realistic way (long term) to do it than getting the kids out of there often enough to see what the world around them really looks like.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:50 PM   #77
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Oboy! The Narrative!

According to The Narrative, black out of wedlock birth rates have always been high, due to The Legacy of Slavery. However in reality as has already been shown on this thread, that assertion is a load of horse ****.

Blaming society is the first thing liberals do and they rarely bother looking at the facts. What a shame.
I knew before I posted it that as far as you were concerned, it would be like watering the rocks in my garden and expecting something to grow out of them.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:29 PM   #78
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I knew before I posted it that as far as you were concerned, it would be like watering the rocks in my garden and expecting something to grow out of them.
I'm merely reiterating that statistical data doesn't support The Narrative. It simply doesn't. Furthermore, since the early 20th century, out of wedlock births for ALL races have increased. Please refer to this book for info on historical black family data, and you'll see what I am referring to.

Everyone's getting hit. Families of all races are disintegrating.

As I have said before, if you guys are going to insist on pointing fingers of blame at society, at least do some damned research first. Is this too much ask??!
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:15 PM   #79
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I knew before I posted it that as far as you were concerned, it would be like watering the rocks in my garden and expecting something to grow out of them.
Racism is hard-wired into some people at an early age. I just except their limited minds and move on. Life is more enjoyable to take in all the diversity. The only purpose of these threads is to stir the pot of racism. Misery enjoys company. It will take a few generations for racism to die out. The newer generations are less racist overall.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:35 PM   #80
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I'm merely reiterating that statistical data doesn't support The Narrative. It simply doesn't. Furthermore, since the early 20th century, out of wedlock births for ALL races have increased. Please refer to this book for info on historical black family data, and you'll see what I am referring to.

Everyone's getting hit. Families of all races are disintegrating.

As I have said before, if you guys are going to insist on pointing fingers of blame at society, at least do some damned research first. Is this too much ask??!
Glaringly obvious that you couldn't be bothered to watch the video I posted. Your "damned research" is right there.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #81
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How is black out of wedlock births the fault of white society if black out of wedlock birthrates were far lower before the civil rights movement?
I never stated that black out of wedlock births is the fault of the white society. I made several points in my statement, many of which were eluding to black people having to be accountable for their own situation. It seems to me that you, and I'm assuming that you are a white person, but I could be wrong, are trying to act as if white America has nothing to do with the state of black America. As a black person, I'll say that black America has greatly contributed to the situation, and is continuing the cycle of poverty and everything that comes with that. But lets not act like none of this has anything to do with this country's past, or that black America is the sole reason for this. And I'm not just talking about things that happened a few hundred years ago. That would also include things that have happened during the lifetime of a good amount of the current U.S. population.

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Old 08-08-2013, 06:13 PM   #82
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What rules, pet? Aren't you stuck up in the Dakotas?
First rule is look pretty. Do you pass?

If you are white -- I am not interested.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #83
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I think when it comes to the inner city, white flight has brought back many of the practical problems of segregation.

And School choice maybe isn't the answer in and of itself. But you have to start with the kids. And throwing more money at the problem, if not to give those kids other options, is essentially doing nothing.

Those pockets of desperation need to be broken up. I can't think of any more realistic way (long term) to do it than getting the kids out of there often enough to see what the world around them really looks like.
What?
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:12 AM   #84
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First rule is look pretty. Do you pass?

If you are white -- I am not interested.
Too late, the movie was yesterday. You'd have liked the idiotic leftwing theme of Elysium.

I pass on pretty, but I'm white. If you don't like white chicks, I'd suggest a move out of the Dakotas.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:14 AM   #85
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Glaringly obvious that you couldn't be bothered to watch the video I posted. Your "damned research" is right there.
Considering I posted my source on page 1 and you ignored it, your whining here is pretty funny. It clearly shows that black marriage rates were higher during Jim Crow years. Considering that, then, blaming the dissolution of the black family on segregation or "the legacy of slavery" is a load of ****. It's not hard to figure out.

Economic inequality has NOTHING to do with the decline of black marriage rates, unless you're idiotic enough to think they made more money in Jim Crow than they make now?

Last edited by nyuk nyuk; 08-10-2013 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:18 AM   #86
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I never stated that black out of wedlock births is the fault of the white society. I made several points in my statement, many of which were eluding to black people having to be accountable for their own situation. It seems to me that you, and I'm assuming that you are a white person, but I could be wrong, are trying to act as if white America has nothing to do with the state of black America. As a black person, I'll say that black America has greatly contributed to the situation, and is continuing the cycle of poverty and everything that comes with that. But lets not act like none of this has anything to do with this country's past, or that black America is the sole reason for this. And I'm not just talking about things that happened a few hundred years ago. That would also include things that have happened during the lifetime of a good amount of the current U.S. population.
I take issue with people who point fingers externally first and never bother to look in the mirror first.

Whites have not been the ones to discourage black children from staying in school. That is a longterm mindset in which black children are told that to go to school is to "act white" and "get a white man's education."

Consider that black Americans are the most prosperous and educated black people on the planet, yet somehow their condition is one of unending misery attributed to white people, even while people immigrate here from places like Ethiopia and open businesses nearly right away. Sorry I don't buy structural oppression lefty meme.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:19 AM   #87
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Racism is hard-wired into some people at an early age. I just except their limited minds and move on. Life is more enjoyable to take in all the diversity. The only purpose of these threads is to stir the pot of racism. Misery enjoys company. It will take a few generations for racism to die out. The newer generations are less racist overall.
I found this mentality common when I was a liberal and I always thought it odd. Conflict of groups be they ethnic, racial, religious, or otherwise, has always existed in one form or another. If you seriously think this is going away or will going away, I have a tropical island in Antarctica to sell you.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:19 AM   #88
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I like how nyuk nyuk is still pretending to be "a chick". Probably fun for him since it's the most intimate he ever gets with one.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:28 AM   #89
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Neither side can take all of the blame, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, in a nut shell, is that many of the problems that plague the black community, were created several generations ago by a racist country. Black folks were set up to fail. I believe Malcolm X said something like that there is a vicious cycle where a black person grows up in a poor environment, gets a poor education, which leads to a poor job when he/she grows up, and then their kids grow up in the same poor environment, and the cycle just repeats itself. Well, who started this cycle? It can be traced back to 250 or so years of slavery, and then the 100 years of segregation.
What does any of this external blame-gaming have to do with high black dropout rates?

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they don't value education.

Well there you go. Value education, stop dropping out, finish your studies and see how much you financially struggle. Until then, stick a sock in it with your blaming.



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Can we really expect a kid, who probably doesn't have a father in the home and an uneducated mother, to really figure out how to get a good education on their own? Yeah, come on folks. That **** ain't happening.
Actually yes. I grew up in such a situation as did many people in this country of various races. I didn't suck my thumb. I didn't cry. I didn't blame society. I got a full time job and went to part-time college.

The biggest disservice you can do to anyone is to accept their self-pity and excuse-making for why they don't lift a finger for themselves.


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The school systems suck really bad in poor areas, and now there aren't as many after school programs for these kids because of budget cuts. So what are these kids supposed to do? Where do they go? They hang out in the streets. They join gangs, they have kids at an early age.
If living in a poor area is related to educational success, I'd like to know why people come over here from places like India with graduate degrees in mathematics. Even poor districts in the US have it much better off than third world countries do. They are spoiled brats in comparison. I had a trigonometry professor from India who described conditions in which students had to work with other there. You have no concept, and you're using poverty as an excuse. Apply yourself and focus on your studies, and it doesn't matter how poor you are.

As far as after school programs, would they need them if the economy wasn't so undermined that both parents had to work (if both parents were around) thus leaving the kids to rot at home alone or in daycare with strangers? I don't think so. I didn't need an after school program to stop me from behaving like a hoodlum.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:29 AM   #90
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I like how nyuk nyuk is still pretending to be "a chick". Probably fun for him since it's the most intimate he ever gets with one.
Off topic ad hominem. We have a certified MENSA member here, folks.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:32 AM   #91
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If living in a poor area is related to educational success, I'd like to know why people come over here from places like India with graduate degrees in mathematics.
It's generally the wealthier from countries like India who come here and succeed. India has an outstanding education system for those with wealth and/or those in a higher caste.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:43 AM   #92
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It's generally the wealthier from countries like India who come here and succeed. India has an outstanding education system for those with wealth and/or those in a higher caste.
Outstanding? Their textbooks come from a list of books they can choose from a library that have the same general content as the class syllabus because they don't have textbooks to give out. Americans have never had to do such a thing as their textbook though I have done it as a helpful supplement. They also have one final exam at the end of the year which is their only exam, no quizzes at all. How's that for pressure?
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #93
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Outstanding? ...
So, the wealthy and/or higher caste people leave India highly educated but their whole education system sucks?
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #94
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Considering I posted my source on page 1 and you ignored it, your whining here is pretty funny. It clearly shows that black marriage rates were higher during Jim Crow years. Considering that, then, blaming the dissolution of the black family on segregation or "the legacy of slavery" is a load of ****. It's not hard to figure out.

Economic inequality has NOTHING to do with the decline of black marriage rates, unless you're idiotic enough to think they made more money in Jim Crow than they make now?
I didn't ignore it. It's an economist citing some numbers and making a few mild conclusions based on those numbers and then you hysterically extrapolating those opinions into much more than even William's argument. He's an economist. Ever notice that Exxon Mobil's number one spokesman against AGW is a geologist? What does an economist know about history, or the social sciences? Is it because he's black that you add freight to his opinion?

Obviously, your hysteria doesn't allow you to critically take in the opinions of others. If you read my post you would see that I said these problems were "...born in..." slavery and Jim Crow, which is undeniable. Unless you simply want to ignore history in service of, once again, blind Right Wing ideological dogma. Were you this dogmatic when you were a Marxist?

Black poverty and the decline of black marriage and the black teenage birth rate and black violence and racism has just got to be the fault of blacks, doesn't it? This is one of the foundational principles of Right Wing thought (if you can call it that): Everybody is to blame for their own situation. If you are failing, it simply means you are not working hard enough. If your wages keep dropping relative to the rest of the economy, it means you are losing value, and rightfully so. Otherwise, that might mean it's something else, like income inequality, like a society that is not working, like a glaring failure of capitalism to solve all our problems. It would mean that capitalism is not perfect. And to the Right Wingers, that idea is heresy.

You're like the geologist focusing in on the microclimate and ignoring the macroclimate. It's snowing, ergo global warming doesn't exist. Take a few minute to watch the video. Richard Wilkenson is a Professor Emeritus of Social Epidemiology at the University of Nottingham, not an economist dabbling in social science.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 08-10-2013 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:26 AM   #95
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Even poor districts in the US have it much better off than third world countries do.
And you can thank seventy years of progressive politics for that. Otherwise, we'd be no different than Rio, which is where the Right Wing wants us to go back to; castles surrounded by slums. Politics created the middle class in America, and politics is taking it apart.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #96
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I like how nyuk nyuk is still pretending to be "a chick". Probably fun for him since it's the most intimate he ever gets with one.
He's the same guy as angryllama/epicsocialism4TW. They have the same writing style, views, sense of humor, or lack thereof. So many others have noticed this too. We all notice different things, but taken together as a group, we can be sure it's the same guy.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:36 AM   #97
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And you can thank seventy years of progressive politics for that. Otherwise, we'd be no different than Rio, which is where the Right Wing wants us to go back to; castles surrounded by slums. Politics created the middle class in America, and politics is taking it apart.
Mass migration of cheap uneducated foreign labor is what is wrecking the middle class, dude, and Democrats are the main culprit in pushing its continuance in the form of amnesty. If the "right wing" are the big evil culprits here, I'd love to know why they're some 90% of the opposition to amnesty?
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:38 AM   #98
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He's the same guy as angryllama/epicsocialism4TW. They have the same writing style, views, sense of humor, or lack thereof. So many others have noticed this too. We all notice different things, but taken together as a group, we can be sure it's the same guy.
What I see is a small circle of angry liberals with rabies disliking my views and using as a tactic to discredit them without addressing them rumors and feminine gossip tales about my being some guy in Texas.

Apparently this includes you.

Gossip is clearly yet another characteristic of the emasculated, feminine modern liberal male.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:43 AM   #99
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Mass migration of cheap uneducated foreign labor is what is wrecking the middle class, dude, and Democrats are the main culprit in pushing its continuance in the form of amnesty. If the "right wing" are the big evil culprits here, I'd love to know why they're some 90% of the opposition to amnesty?
So, now we're going from "It's the black peoples' fault" to "It's the brown peoples' fault."

BTW, "mass migration of cheap uneducated foreign labor" is what built America.

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Old 08-10-2013, 11:45 AM   #100
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I didn't ignore it. It's an economist citing some numbers and making a few mild conclusions based on those numbers and then you hysterically extrapolating those opinions into much more than even William's argument. He's an economist. Ever notice that Exxon Mobil's number one spokesman against AGW is a geologist? What does an economist know about history, or the social sciences? Is it because he's black that you add freight to his opinion?

Obviously, your hysteria doesn't allow you to critically take in the opinions of others. If you read my post you would see that I said these problems were "...born in..." slavery and Jim Crow, which is undeniable. Unless you simply want to ignore history in service of, once again, blind Right Wing ideological dogma. Were you this dogmatic when you were a Marxist?

Black poverty and the decline of black marriage and the black teenage birth rate and black violence and racism has just got to be the fault of blacks, doesn't it? This is one of the foundational principles of Right Wing thought (if you can call it that): Everybody is to blame for their own situation. If you are failing, it simply means you are not working hard enough. If your wages keep dropping relative to the rest of the economy, it means you are losing value, and rightfully so. Otherwise, that might mean it's something else, like income inequality, like a society that is not working, like a glaring failure of capitalism to solve all our problems. It would mean that capitalism is not perfect. And to the Right Wingers, that idea is heresy.

You're like the geologist focusing in on the microclimate and ignoring the macroclimate. It's snowing, ergo global warming doesn't exist. Take a few minute to watch the video. Richard Wilkenson is a Professor Emeritus of Social Epidemiology at the University of Nottingham, not an economist dabbling in social science.
None of this has dick to do with the topic of this thread or the facts of the previous relative health of the black family in comparison to today. That being said, how was the modern massive black out of wedlock birth rate "born in slavery or Jim Crow"? Clearly you're full of it. Clearly even more that in the same span of time, out of wedlock birth rates for all races in this country - including whites - has increased.

I don't think it's unfair of me to expect people to look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others and blaming society, but unfortunately, liberals in general react in anger whenever I have the audacity to suggest such a thing.

If you wish to focus on the economic health of the American worker, I've already posted two US government sources - from liberal US administrations - discussing how poor border control and massive immigration of even legal unskilled workers is undercutting American working class wages. Want to help these people out? Stop importing cheaper replacements so they can have a job and have one paying at a higher rate in a job market that doesn't have artificially deflated wages due to the massive influx of cheaper labor that Americans can't compete with.

Capitalism is one thing. Unethical, predatory capitalism is another.
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