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Old 08-06-2013, 10:28 PM   #51
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Yep. It was tripe a few days ago (after he read it in one of my posts). We should keep a running tally.

I would rather not. It is sad enough coming to the realization that somewhere behind a computer screen there is a nyuk nyuk.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:57 AM   #52
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You've been educated in many more elementary subjects than vocabulary on this board. I could probably teach you a bit on penmanship, too, but I imagine that might further test the limits of your womanly facade.
Yes, of course. Now what does this juvenile ad hominem from the usual crowd of angry boys have to do with the topic of this thread?

An attempt to intentionally derail and trying to bait into a brawl, perhaps? Yes. That tends to happen around here when people can't deal with a topic.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:16 AM   #53
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so nyuk nyuk really is a woman ? I thought you guys were kidding
No. "nyuk nyuk" is epicsocialism4tw, and before that dramallama.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:14 AM   #54
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When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:24 AM   #55
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BS. You have issues with marriage rates? Who the **** cares. That is the problem with conservatives, what difference does it make to you the marriage rates among ALL colors white,brown or black. Jim Crow?!

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db123.htm

Teen birth rates are all trending downwards for WHITES, BLACKS and LATINOS.
Besides there's no law that requires marriage in order have a child. Nor is it required to have both a mother & father for there to be a family. A single parent household is just as strong as a traditional one.
Teen birth rates aren't all they're cracked up to be. Better(statistically) to be the product of a teen birth in rural Minnesota than a single parented child born to a 30 yo on the south side of Chicago.

And its not the marriage certificate that provides any benefit. Its the healthy marriage.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:06 AM   #56
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When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol
Do you think the economist who wrote the OP article is right?
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:12 PM   #57
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When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol
What do you think of Tyler the Creator?
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:19 PM   #58
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so nyuk nyuk really is a woman ? I thought you guys were kidding
There is what I say I am and what those who hate me say I am. Take your pick.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #59
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Majority rules, chadta. Follow your heart.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:11 PM   #60
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When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol
This is a big diversion off the topic of the thread. Liberals tend to do that when confronted with accurate data they don't like and/or that contradicts their belief system, much like a bunch of religious zealots who attack science for saying anything the Bible doesn't.

Lovely to observe, isn't it?
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:14 PM   #61
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Majority rules, chadta. Follow your heart.
The majority here being a small clique of ticked off liberal she-males with hopelessly trampled egos and inflated senses of knowledge and self-worth.

I'll be at the Century Aurora Friday for Elysium. Care to join me?
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:14 PM   #62
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There is what I say I am and what those who hate me say I am. Take your pick.
honestly, in order to decide id have to first care, and im sorry but i dont, it matters not to me, altho i have to admit i thought you were epic dramalamas latest incarnation, just by the way you talk, its ok tho, I agree with most of what you post, just not the bat **** crazy stuff which lately has been most of it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:16 PM   #63
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honestly, in order to decide id have to first care, and im sorry but i dont, it matters not to me, altho i have to admit i thought you were epic dramalamas latest incarnation, just by the way you talk, its ok tho, I agree with most of what you post, just not the bat **** crazy stuff which lately has been most of it.
I don't post here very often. There's only so long a person can watch a group of children finger paint without getting extremely bored and leaving. What have I said lately that is bat **** crazy?
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:01 PM   #64
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Comparatively speaking, and by social and economic measurements, there is not a worse group of people in the United States than the inner-city black population. Some of that is due to circumstances outside their control, but a lot of it isn't. People are people. They have agency -- they can navigate their lives how they choose and thus bear some responsibility in what happens to them more often than not. These inner-city folk are the most violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, superstitious, anti-intellectual, charity-leeching band of people I have ever come across. That's my personal experience, but it's also correlated by the crazily disproportionate statistics when it comes to figuring out what elements of our society are harmful -- i.e., the inner-city populations.

Of course, nobody says this outright. Blacks who do get railroaded into being Uncle Toms. Whites get accused of racism. Conservatives use it as a critique of liberal policies. Liberals just state it's in the penumbra of slavery's afterglow. I just look at it for what it is, which is not a particularly good thing. Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed, though ending the war on drugs would probably be a great start.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #65
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Comparatively speaking, and by social and economic measurements, there is not a worse group of people in the United States than the inner-city black population. Some of that is due to circumstances outside their control, but a lot of it isn't. People are people. They have agency -- they can navigate their lives how they choose and thus bear some responsibility in what happens to them more often than not. These inner-city folk are the most violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, superstitious, anti-intellectual, charity-leeching band of people I have ever come across. That's my personal experience, but it's also correlated by the crazily disproportionate statistics when it comes to figuring out what elements of our society are harmful -- i.e., the inner-city populations.

Of course, nobody says this outright. Blacks who do get railroaded into being Uncle Toms. Whites get accused of racism. Conservatives use it as a critique of liberal policies. Liberals just state it's in the penumbra of slavery's afterglow. I just look at it for what it is, which is not a particularly good thing. Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed, though ending the war on drugs would probably be a great start.
Having lived within 2 miles of downtown Denver since 1987, I can concur with this totally. Noticing it, of course, is a no-no. Now of course the first hostile liberal knee-jerk reaction is the false accusation that you are saying they "all" are like this.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:57 AM   #66
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Do you think the economist who wrote the OP article is right?
Well, the guy makes valid points. Very valid points. No question about that. But at the same time I don't think that certain white folks should use what he is saying to act as if white America does not have anything to do with the situation that black people are in now.

Now, let me make this clear. I am not blaming white America for black people's problems. Black people need to be accountable for themselves. But lets not act like black people did all of this stuff to themselves.

I'm always conflicted on this topic, and I try to be as objective as possible. So I put the blame on both sides. When I have this conversation with black folks, especially those who blame white people, they try to act like I'm defending white folks, or question my blackness. When I have this conversation with white folks (usually on a message board), and I point out things that white America has done to create this situation, people act as if I won't hold black people accountable and that I'll always take the black angle.

Neither side can take all of the blame, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, in a nut shell, is that many of the problems that plague the black community, were created several generations ago by a racist country. Black folks were set up to fail. I believe Malcolm X said something like that there is a vicious cycle where a black person grows up in a poor environment, gets a poor education, which leads to a poor job when he/she grows up, and then their kids grow up in the same poor environment, and the cycle just repeats itself. Well, who started this cycle? It can be traced back to 250 or so years of slavery, and then the 100 years of segregation.

Okay, but since the Civil Rights era this country has made great strides toward equality. We certainly aren't there yet, but things are way better than before. There is no legal segregation. But yet these cycles continue. Well, that's where black people of today have to be more accountable. Can't really blame the white America, or the government, or The Man, or whoever to the same degree. Everybody has a chance. It's still not an equal chance (especially when looking at the education in poor areas), but there is nothing stopping anybody today. Black folks today are shooting themselves in the foot. They aren't taking advantage of opportunities presented, and they don't value education. Well, not that there is a good education for us in a lot of cases, but even in hood schools, if a student applies him/herself, they can get a good education. But that's where a major problem is. Can we really expect a kid, who probably doesn't have a father in the home and an uneducated mother, to really figure out how to get a good education on their own? Yeah, come on folks. That **** ain't happening.

I've been a part of mentoring programs, and have gone to elementary schools to give presentations on what I do for a career, and talk about the value of education. Dealing with the black kids, especially in the hood schools, it's a losing battle. I hate to say it, but some of these kids have very little hope. They are a part of a cycle that they do not know how to get themselves out of, and if there isn't an adult there with them on a daily basis to help them get out of that cycle, they'll end up with a poor education, and probably turn to a life of crime and have children out of wedlock. A few people here and there showing up at school to promote education isn't going to do much of anything, because the messages that stick come from home, with a parent who is with the kids every day.

The school systems suck really bad in poor areas, and now there aren't as many after school programs for these kids because of budget cuts. So what are these kids supposed to do? Where do they go? They hang out in the streets. They join gangs, they have kids at an early age.

Money needs to be pumped into poor areas. Not just black areas, because I'm pretty sure a lot of these same problems happen in white poor areas, and poor areas of all races. It's almost like poor people are being told to figure it out themselves, and if they can't get their **** together, it's all their faults. Well in black communities, the origin of these problems really didn't start with us. But we certainly keep them going.

Bottom line, there is no one group that should take all, or the bulk of the blame. But everybody should be accountable. And there should be an effort from everybody to solve the problems with people in poor areas.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:00 AM   #67
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What do you think of Tyler the Creator?
I've never heard of him. I just googled him. I'll listen to a few of his songs.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:08 AM   #68
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Comparatively speaking, and by social and economic measurements, there is not a worse group of people in the United States than the inner-city black population. Some of that is due to circumstances outside their control, but a lot of it isn't. People are people. They have agency -- they can navigate their lives how they choose and thus bear some responsibility in what happens to them more often than not. These inner-city folk are the most violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, superstitious, anti-intellectual, charity-leeching band of people I have ever come across. That's my personal experience, but it's also correlated by the crazily disproportionate statistics when it comes to figuring out what elements of our society are harmful -- i.e., the inner-city populations.

Of course, nobody says this outright. Blacks who do get railroaded into being Uncle Toms. Whites get accused of racism. Conservatives use it as a critique of liberal policies. Liberals just state it's in the penumbra of slavery's afterglow. I just look at it for what it is, which is not a particularly good thing. Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed, though ending the war on drugs would probably be a great start.
There is truth to that. And I would say that is true about poor people in general. Those same issues are present in poor people of every race.

The thing that frustrates me is that those issues defines the black race, and not other races that deal with similar issues. Now it can be said that those issues happen to a higher degree in the black community than other races. But that doesn't mean that the entire race is made up of a bunch of murderers, thieves, and druggies. There are a whole lot of black people who abide by the law, raise their children, have jobs. But the perception is that those type of black people are few and far between. That's what annoys me abut the entire debate.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:06 AM   #69
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...And I would say that is true about poor people in general. Those same issues are present in poor people of every race.
Exactly. This isn't an African American thing. It's a poverty thing. And yes, there is some difference between the urban poor and rural poor. But a "black ghetto" isn't really all that different from a "hispanic/latino ghetto", for example. This is about the cycle of poverty, a cycle that's always been extremely difficult to get out of and has probably gotten more difficult to escape.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:51 PM   #70
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The majority here being a small clique of ticked off liberal she-males with hopelessly trampled egos and inflated senses of knowledge and self-worth.

I'll be at the Century Aurora Friday for Elysium. Care to join me?
Only if you follow my rules.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:12 PM   #71
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Well, the guy makes valid points. Very valid points. No question about that. But at the same time I don't think that certain white folks should use what he is saying to act as if white America does not have anything to do with the situation that black people are in now.

Now, let me make this clear. I am not blaming white America for black people's problems. Black people need to be accountable for themselves. But lets not act like black people did all of this stuff to themselves.

How is black out of wedlock births the fault of white society if black out of wedlock birthrates were far lower before the civil rights movement?
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:12 PM   #72
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Only if you follow my rules.
What rules, pet? Aren't you stuck up in the Dakotas?
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:14 PM   #73
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Exactly. This isn't an African American thing. It's a poverty thing. And yes, there is some difference between the urban poor and rural poor. But a "black ghetto" isn't really all that different from a "hispanic/latino ghetto", for example. This is about the cycle of poverty, a cycle that's always been extremely difficult to get out of and has probably gotten more difficult to escape.
Then why were black out of wedlock birthrates far lower in the Jim Crow era?
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #74
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Well, the guy makes valid points. Very valid points. No question about that. But at the same time I don't think that certain white folks should use what he is saying to act as if white America does not have anything to do with the situation that black people are in now.

Now, let me make this clear. I am not blaming white America for black people's problems. Black people need to be accountable for themselves. But lets not act like black people did all of this stuff to themselves.

I'm always conflicted on this topic, and I try to be as objective as possible. So I put the blame on both sides. When I have this conversation with black folks, especially those who blame white people, they try to act like I'm defending white folks, or question my blackness. When I have this conversation with white folks (usually on a message board), and I point out things that white America has done to create this situation, people act as if I won't hold black people accountable and that I'll always take the black angle.

Neither side can take all of the blame, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, in a nut shell, is that many of the problems that plague the black community, were created several generations ago by a racist country. Black folks were set up to fail. I believe Malcolm X said something like that there is a vicious cycle where a black person grows up in a poor environment, gets a poor education, which leads to a poor job when he/she grows up, and then their kids grow up in the same poor environment, and the cycle just repeats itself. Well, who started this cycle? It can be traced back to 250 or so years of slavery, and then the 100 years of segregation.

Okay, but since the Civil Rights era this country has made great strides toward equality. We certainly aren't there yet, but things are way better than before. There is no legal segregation. But yet these cycles continue. Well, that's where black people of today have to be more accountable. Can't really blame the white America, or the government, or The Man, or whoever to the same degree. Everybody has a chance. It's still not an equal chance (especially when looking at the education in poor areas), but there is nothing stopping anybody today. Black folks today are shooting themselves in the foot. They aren't taking advantage of opportunities presented, and they don't value education. Well, not that there is a good education for us in a lot of cases, but even in hood schools, if a student applies him/herself, they can get a good education. But that's where a major problem is. Can we really expect a kid, who probably doesn't have a father in the home and an uneducated mother, to really figure out how to get a good education on their own? Yeah, come on folks. That **** ain't happening.

I've been a part of mentoring programs, and have gone to elementary schools to give presentations on what I do for a career, and talk about the value of education. Dealing with the black kids, especially in the hood schools, it's a losing battle. I hate to say it, but some of these kids have very little hope. They are a part of a cycle that they do not know how to get themselves out of, and if there isn't an adult there with them on a daily basis to help them get out of that cycle, they'll end up with a poor education, and probably turn to a life of crime and have children out of wedlock. A few people here and there showing up at school to promote education isn't going to do much of anything, because the messages that stick come from home, with a parent who is with the kids every day.

The school systems suck really bad in poor areas, and now there aren't as many after school programs for these kids because of budget cuts. So what are these kids supposed to do? Where do they go? They hang out in the streets. They join gangs, they have kids at an early age.

Money needs to be pumped into poor areas. Not just black areas, because I'm pretty sure a lot of these same problems happen in white poor areas, and poor areas of all races. It's almost like poor people are being told to figure it out themselves, and if they can't get their **** together, it's all their faults. Well in black communities, the origin of these problems really didn't start with us. But we certainly keep them going.

Bottom line, there is no one group that should take all, or the bulk of the blame. But everybody should be accountable. And there should be an effort from everybody to solve the problems with people in poor areas.
Wow! Going all heavy and ****. Thanks for the in depth response. I agree that the current situation was born in hundreds of years of slavery and a hundred more years of Jim Crow. The economics follow the bigotry. Unfortunately, nothing evolves more slowly than consciousness, and that's the only way out of it.

There are both blatant, and subtle lines of prejudice running through, not just America, but all of mankind. In most countries, the darker you are, the lower you go on the social totem poll. This seems to be a recurrent, human theme. For one of the subtle lines, let's face it, until JFK, every one of our presidents was a WASP. That is still the dominant culture in America's top economic percentile. Every day you can see an example of that leftover Puritan streak raising its ugly head in judgment of others. We can't seem to get it out of our system no matter how "pluralistic" we try to get as a nation. Look at the backlash against Obama's presidency from some quarters? Anybody who thinks race is not a component of that is living in a fantasy.

On the economic side, I just think humans are hard-wired to default into hierarchical systems. We praise the rich and abandon the poor. We can't seem to shed our primordial king-of-the-hill social modeling. For the last thirty years we have watched this chasm of inequality open and done nothing about it. We've supported the candidates and policies that made it happen. Listen to half the people in government now (especially on the Right) and you hear them passing moral judgment on the poor. Why? So they can abandon them without guilt.

In the poor community (and not just black), it is ten times harder to get things done. That's just a fact. Yes, the community must step up. Yes, the parents must step up. But it's not a fight they can win alone. And if they feel the leadership of the country has abandoned them, it's just another burden they must carry forward. They must have hope. If they see that chasm of inequality just getting wider and wider and their hope getting smaller and smaller, you can expect more defeats and fewer victories. Do people think those single mothers don't want a man in the house, helping her raise her family? Think those men don't want jobs that give them pride in themselves and support them staying in their homes? Poverty dismantles social mores. That's just a fact.

For those who haven't seen it, I post it again. This is what is happening in America, folks. This is what we must address:


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Old 08-08-2013, 02:30 PM   #75
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I agree that the current situation was born in hundreds of years of slavery and a hundred more years of Jim Crow. The economics follow the bigotry. Unfortunately, nothing evolves more slowly than consciousness, and that's the only way out of it.
Oboy! The Narrative!

According to The Narrative, black out of wedlock birth rates have always been high, due to The Legacy of Slavery. However in reality as has already been shown on this thread, that assertion is a load of horse ****.

Blaming society is the first thing liberals do and they rarely bother looking at the facts. What a shame.
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