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Old 07-31-2013, 07:10 AM   #76
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I am guessing that Lilja is being looked at as insurance. Just like I think Koppen was (I actually believe the FO when they say ManRam was going to be the starter). The Broncos want someone backing up ManRam who they can feel confident plugging in if he fails. They don't want CJ Davis to be Plan B.

Also - regarding all this hand-wringing. Teams get injuries. You can't possibly have Starter-quality backups at every position. ManRam filled in pretty well last year. If he can do the same this year, we will be fine. We will have to deal with worse, as will probably every other Super Bowl contending team this year.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:13 AM   #77
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lulz at NFL AM saying that out of the five notable injuries,

Michael Crabtree - 49ers
Percy Harvin - Seahawks
Dan Koppen - Broncos
Jeremy Maclin - Eagles
Dennis Pitta - Ravens

that Dan Koppen was the unanimous decision as "most devastating" to their team.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:15 AM   #78
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lulz at NFL AM saying that out of the five notable injuries,

Michael Crabtree - 49ers
Percy Harvin - Seahawks
Dan Koppen - Broncos
Jeremy Maclin - Eagles
Dennis Pitta - Ravens

that Dan Koppen was the unanimous decision as "most devastating" to their team.

! Koppen was a backup
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:15 AM   #79
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I was just pointing out pff isn't e best tool to use when evaluating players. And I'm sure there are more gifs vs weaker dt's out there. I remember manram getting abused in almost every game except the last 2.
If I recall, he was pretty solid in the last 4. I think he'd be fine as long as he can snap consistently
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:16 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by SeedReaver View Post
lulz at NFL AM saying that out of the five notable injuries,

Michael Crabtree - 49ers
Percy Harvin - Seahawks
Dan Koppen - Broncos
Jeremy Maclin - Eagles
Dennis Pitta - Ravens

that Dan Koppen was the unanimous decision as "most devastating" to their team.
Don't the realize he was only signed back like a month ago
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:19 AM   #81
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! Koppen was a backup
According to who?

But when Walton was forced to have more surgery, Denver signed Koppen and he was quickly put into the starting lineup.

Read more: Dan Koppen's knee injury big blow to Denver Broncos' offensive line - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2adIeaw2e
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:21 AM   #82
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According to who?

But when Walton was forced to have more surgery, Denver signed Koppen and he was quickly put into the starting lineup.

Read more: Dan Koppen's knee injury big blow to Denver Broncos' offensive line - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2adIeaw2e
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I read it somewhere here on the mane....go look it up
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:23 AM   #83
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Maybe you haven't read the camp reports.


ManRam on skates. ManRam pulverized in the pit. ManRam pushed into the outskirts of Wichita.
Dude - take a deep breath. You need to read the below thread if you want to get an idea of how important Cecil's analysis of what happens in "the pit" is. Our OL did ok, last year right? Reading the below, you'd think we were going to get destroyed. Also - by this account, Ryan Harris should be an All Pro Right Tackle seeing as how he can handle Von Miller 1x1 in "the pit", right?

NOTE: I am not bashing Cecil or anyone who does Training Camp Reports. I love reading them. You just can't freak out over them.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=106280
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:55 AM   #84
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Don't the realize he was only signed back like a month ago
I'm pretty sure they think Koppens been on the team since last year and he's the only reason why he Oline was any good.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:02 AM   #85
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I was just pointing out pff isn't e best tool to use when evaluating players. And I'm sure there are more gifs vs weaker dt's out there. I remember manram getting abused in almost every game except the last 2.
It is a little more accurate than cherry picking moments where he was beaten. I would say .gif review is pretty low on the scale of evaluation.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:37 AM   #86
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! Koppen was a backup
True, but with Walton also out we're down to our 3rd option.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:41 AM   #87
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True, but with Walton also out we're down to our 3rd option.
also true....I guess I can't really worry about it until I see what happens in the 3rd pre-season game. No offense to everyone, but I find training camp reports to be 90% hyperbole.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:58 AM   #88
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also true....I guess I can't really worry about it until I see what happens in the 3rd pre-season game. No offense to everyone, but I find training camp reports to be 90% hyperbole.
yep, the 3rd preseason game is the true indicator of where the team is at. If ManRam struggles in that game, if there are problems with the snap, etc. then I'll be worried. Until then, I'll trust what Fox says.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:11 AM   #89
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I am guessing that Lilja is being looked at as insurance. Just like I think Koppen was (I actually believe the FO when they say ManRam was going to be the starter).
Yes I believe it too. This Elway-Fox team has always been truthful over the last two years IMO, especially when players are involved.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:13 AM   #90
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According to who?

But when Walton was forced to have more surgery, Denver signed Koppen and he was quickly put into the starting lineup.

Read more: Dan Koppen's knee injury big blow to Denver Broncos' offensive line - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2adIeaw2e
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The article is wrong. Koppen was never put into the starting lineup. OTA's Koppen wasn't here. And every camp report indicated Koppen was second team.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:14 AM   #91
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Not sure why the sky is falling here. The offensive roster on paper looks absolutely dynamic and it's a disaster because there is uncertainty at one position? Not to devalue the importance of the center, but a lot of it has to do with calling protection schemes. That can be learned. In terms of one on one play, IMO it'd be a lot scarier to have an issue at left tackle than center.
Lol LT the only spot worst then center. Being down to what we are a center is a, "blowing our Superbowl yr kind of mistake by Elway" IMO. You will all see how big of a deal this us come having to stop ngata first week of the season.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:36 AM   #92
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Manning under Kuper's pooper ....... it has potential
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:08 AM   #93
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Ramirez isn't great but Watt did have, what 21 sacks last year?
That clip was from the start of the season. Ramirez finished the year putting in three/four weeks of back to back solid performances.

I know it's the orangemane way to fear the sky is falling but Ramirez showed exactly the kind of improvement in one season that OL coaches look for and I would have been comfortable going into this season with him at Guard.

At Center though? That's a whole different question and it's only prudent the team is pursuing other options like Lilja who most likely comes back for another season.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:13 AM   #94
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Being down to what we are a center is a, "blowing our Superbowl yr kind of mistake by Elway" IMO.
Losing your 1st and 2nd option to injury before the season starts is a "mistake by Elway"? Wouldn't it be more fair to call it "bad luck"?
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:15 AM   #95
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Lol LT the only spot worst then center. Being down to what we are a center is a, "blowing our Superbowl yr kind of mistake by Elway" IMO. You will all see how big of a deal this us come having to stop ngata first week of the season.
You're talking as if we're electing not to play with a center period. We're gonna be fine. The Ravens basically shuffled their entire line last playoff and somehow got enough mileage out of Bryant McKinnie's corpse to win a super bowl.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:17 AM   #96
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Lol LT the only spot worst then center. Being down to what we are a center is a, "blowing our Superbowl yr kind of mistake by Elway" IMO. You will all see how big of a deal this us come having to stop ngata first week of the season.
Elway should have followed the lead of the 31 other teams and be 3 deep in starter quality centers.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:17 AM   #97
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Losing your 1st and 2nd option to injury before the season starts is a "mistake by Elway"? Wouldn't it be more fair to call it "bad luck"?
I think putting all your chips in Walton's bag was a mistake. They banked on him being healthy and he wasn't. Koppen was bad luck. But being down to scraps is a result of relying on Walton. Ramirez could be the answer or he could get knocked on his ass and fumble snaps. We're gonna find out.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:19 AM   #98
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Lol LT the only spot worst then center. Being down to what we are a center is a, "blowing our Superbowl yr kind of mistake by Elway" IMO. You will all see how big of a deal this us come having to stop ngata first week of the season.
What do you suggest he could have done? Give any team two injuries at the same spot and they'll struggle, it's just the way things are. Can't expect us to be like 4 deep at C just in case something like this happens.

Personally I'm not overly concerned. C wasn't going to be a position of strength for us this year no matter what, I'm confident that we'll find someone who can do a passable job and then there'll be enough talent on the rest of the line to ensure we keep Manning protected.

This isn't ideal, but it's no disaster IMO. Of the likely starters, Koppen is one of the easiest to replace.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:21 AM   #99
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Losing your 1st and 2nd option to injury before the season starts is a "mistake by Elway"? Wouldn't it be more fair to call it "bad luck"?
Nah.. you totally have starter level depth 5 deep at every position or you just aren't doing your job.

/sarcasm
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:24 AM   #100
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I think putting all your chips in Walton's bag was a mistake.
But they didn't. They clearly had Koppen as a backup option. And - if the FO is to be trusted, Ramirez was a part of the equation. He has been playing center since OTAs. They clearly have had options all along.
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