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Old 07-25-2013, 10:37 AM   #1
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Default Scientists discover whatís killing the bees and itís worse than you thought

http://qz.com/107970/scientists-disc...n-you-thought/

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Old 07-25-2013, 10:42 AM   #2
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We need less regulation, not more! Besides, the bee problem is obviously a government-concocted scheme to get more money out of the taxpayer. Look, you can even see live bees in that very picture you posted! Nothing to see here, folks!
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:49 AM   #3
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You mean we can't just spray fungicides and pesticides all over our environment with impunity? That's weird. Fortunately, the corporations who control our government, like Monsanto, don't have to worry about this ****.

Bee populations are so low in the US that it now takes 60% of the country’s surviving colonies just to pollinate one California crop, almonds. And that’s not just a west coast problem—California supplies 80% of the world’s almonds, a market worth $4 billion.
Somebody is knocking on the door, humanity. Keep pretending your not at home.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:52 AM   #4
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bees are like trees and polar bears, who needs them! stupid liberals....
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:20 PM   #5
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bees are like trees and polar bears, who needs them! stupid liberals....
What's funny is you think there's some sort of turnkey solution that da librals have on the shelf. Does Potato Famine sound like an acceptable alternative? Fungicides, like most agricultural advancements, will inevitably have side effects. So far the good far outweighs the bad.

We learn, we run into new challenges, we try to address them, and we move on. The world as it stands could not function under this organic-agrarian pipe dream so many people subscribe to.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:08 PM   #6
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What's funny is you think there's some sort of turnkey solution that da librals have on the shelf. Does Potato Famine sound like an acceptable alternative? Fungicides, like most agricultural advancements, will inevitably have side effects. So far the good far outweighs the bad.

We learn, we run into new challenges, we try to address them, and we move on. The world as it stands could not function under this organic-agrarian pipe dream so many people subscribe to.
It can also not function without bees.

Oh, and coral reefs. And trees. And atmosphere. And water.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:10 PM   #7
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So it is a giant wielding a mean looking ice pick. IT.ALL.MAKES.SENSE.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:57 PM   #8
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What's funny is you think there's some sort of turnkey solution that da librals have on the shelf. Does Potato Famine sound like an acceptable alternative? Fungicides, like most agricultural advancements, will inevitably have side effects. So far the good far outweighs the bad.

We learn, we run into new challenges, we try to address them, and we move on. The world as it stands could not function under this organic-agrarian pipe dream so many people subscribe to.
What caused the blight?
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #9
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What's funny is you think there's some sort of turnkey solution that da librals have on the shelf. Does Potato Famine sound like an acceptable alternative? Fungicides, like most agricultural advancements, will inevitably have side effects. So far the good far outweighs the bad.

We learn, we run into new challenges, we try to address them, and we move on. The world as it stands could not function under this organic-agrarian pipe dream so many people subscribe to.
bs.you righties don't want to address shet.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:01 PM   #10
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bs.you righties don't want to address shet.
Heh. Truth of the matter is, many progressives only like theoretical improvement. Because theory rarely exhibits real-world drawbacks. Once that theory is driven into production, however, they become aghast at the imperfection of it all and start dreaming about the future again (at the expense of the present)

Irony is, this method of progressivism only leads to paralysis. We need to figure out how to accommodate the bees for sure. But it can't be at the cost of the return of large-scale agricultural blight.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:07 PM   #11
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Heh. Truth of the matter is, many progressives only like theoretical improvement. Because theory rarely exhibits real-world drawbacks. Once that theory is driven into production, however, they become aghast at the imperfection of it all and start dreaming about the future again (at the expense of the present)

Irony is, this method of progressivism only leads to paralysis. We need to figure out how to accommodate the bees for sure. But it can't be at the cost of the return of large-scale agricultural blight.
Yes, because large scale blight will affect a large amount of people for a relatively short amount of time. No bees, on the other hand, that will only affect everyone everywhere forever.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:10 PM   #12
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The arrogance and stupidity of man will cause him to live in conflict with nature until nature finally wins and does away with man.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:18 PM   #13
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The arrogance and stupidity of man will cause him to live in conflict with nature until nature finally wins and does away with man.
Assuming we are the only planet with "man". Who's to say their isn't intelligent live out there? Are we really that special here on little ole Earth?
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:22 PM   #14
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stupidity of man
I would argue that we have too much intelligence for our own good.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:15 PM   #15
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organic farming methods wont produce another dust bowl due to the dead soil that erodes.

organic farms are also more drought resistant and have shown (see rodale's 30yr study) greater prooduction.

blight can be combated in a number of organic methods: crop rotation being one of them. using aact, will breed a larger more diverse colony of bacteria, fungus and protoza which can also out compete the pathogen.

part of the issue with the potato famine/blight was due to monoculture methods, coupled with the serf rules placed upon the irish from the british crown (see corn laws) and the exportation of food from british owned assets in ireland, to british interests.

by citing the potato famine as an example of a failure of organic farming is incorrect. monoculture, with little diversity creates stressors that enable disease to become more rampent.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:37 AM   #16
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organic farming methods wont produce another dust bowl due to the dead soil that erodes.

organic farms are also more drought resistant and have shown (see rodale's 30yr study) greater prooduction.

blight can be combated in a number of organic methods: crop rotation being one of them. using aact, will breed a larger more diverse colony of bacteria, fungus and protoza which can also out compete the pathogen.

part of the issue with the potato famine/blight was due to monoculture methods, coupled with the serf rules placed upon the irish from the british crown (see corn laws) and the exportation of food from british owned assets in ireland, to british interests.

by citing the potato famine as an example of a failure of organic farming is incorrect. monoculture, with little diversity creates stressors that enable disease to become more rampent.
Nice post. This is very easy problem to fix, but man being lazy will whine and b**** about solving it until we have to act.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:49 AM   #17
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Nice post. This is very easy problem to fix, but man being lazy will whine and b**** about solving it until we have to act.
I'm starting a Not-For-Profit, as well as building a business. The best thing I can do is try to build vehicles to get to goals. Creating jobs, getting people to grow their own is huge!

During the Victory Gardens era 40% of the nations consumed produce came from victory gardens. It is possible to create jobs in an agrarian & technologically driven society. People like to assume there is one magic bullet answer, there isn't. The one thing that is great about the AG industry is you can MAKE things. If you want to grow the finest jasmine and make the finest jasmine oil, you will always have a market. If you grow great microgreens you can sell them to a local biz.

I just see lots of opportunity and have taken action on several projects. Once my paperwork is filed i'll share more about the not for profit i'm starting and share the vision of what we're trying to accomplish.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:09 AM   #18
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I'm starting a Not-For-Profit, as well as building a business. The best thing I can do is try to build vehicles to get to goals. Creating jobs, getting people to grow their own is huge!

During the Victory Gardens era 40% of the nations consumed produce came from victory gardens. It is possible to create jobs in an agrarian & technologically driven society. People like to assume there is one magic bullet answer, there isn't. The one thing that is great about the AG industry is you can MAKE things. If you want to grow the finest jasmine and make the finest jasmine oil, you will always have a market. If you grow great microgreens you can sell them to a local biz.

I just see lots of opportunity and have taken action on several projects. Once my paperwork is filed i'll share more about the not for profit i'm starting and share the vision of what we're trying to accomplish.
Rolling out of the depression, Americans tended to be both thrifty and resourceful. And agricultural production has multiplied many many times since those days.

Cajoling today's Joe-six pack into some gardening is going to produce a drop in the bucket compared to modern industrial agriculture.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not personally against some effort towards self-sufficiency. I just don't see it having any measurable macro-impact on the demand for a $1 head of lettuce at Wally World.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:35 AM   #19
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That article is about America’s population of apis mellifera. That bee species was brought over from Europe. There have always been other pollinators in America for as long as flowers have grown here. Environmentalists have been saying "the end is near" for decades just like the economists.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #20
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Rolling out of the depression, Americans tended to be both thrifty and resourceful. And agricultural production has multiplied many many times since those days.

Cajoling today's Joe-six pack into some gardening is going to produce a drop in the bucket compared to modern industrial agriculture.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not personally against some effort towards self-sufficiency. I just don't see it having any measurable macro-impact on the demand for a $1 head of lettuce at Wally World.
Agricultural production of what? Inferior products? Lack of sustainable practices that increase cost of food while decreasing quality?

I don't need to "cajole" anyone, people who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear understand the message of: Grow.Your.Own.

Not seeing any measurable impact from transportation costs, packaging costs, putting chemical ferts into the land that run into the waterways for a $1. Well, that's just ignorance and short sighted isn't it?

I suggest you keep eating the peasants food, and that's the last bit of time i'll waste on you.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #21
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That article is about Americaís population of apis mellifera. That bee species was brought over from Europe. There have always been other pollinators in America for as long as flowers have grown here. Environmentalists have been saying "the end is near" for decades just like the economists.
Yes and we are killing off those other pollinators too.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:16 PM   #22
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That article is about Americaís population of apis mellifera. That bee species was brought over from Europe. There have always been other pollinators in America for as long as flowers have grown here. Environmentalists have been saying "the end is near" for decades just like the economists.
The pollinators indigenous to America were pollinating indigenous flowers, trees and plants, not millions of acres of nut trees, fruit trees, vine fruits, vegetables, etc. etc. etc. Like the article states, the almond crop alone is worth $4 billion. No environmentalist with any scientific knowledge would argue that we are going to wipe out nature. We are simply going to wipe out us or create a new world we will be forced to adapt to.

For example, the nurseries of the oceans are the coral reefs that inhabit the Tropics in a band around the Earth, from thirty degrees North to thirty degrees South. This is where the plankton that feeds the entire seas of the world originate. When we have finished wiping them out through a combination of anthropomorphic climate change and the flushing of billions of tons of agricultural, chemical and human waste into the sea, we won't kill the oceans. The oceans will still be filled with creatures - creatures like jelly fish and urchins and starfish. Detritus and algae eaters. There are already huge bays along the coast of China that are filled with algae. Our Gulf Coast is filling up with algae. Like Darwin taught us, new niches will be opened by the extinguishing of food species and will be populated by new species that can adapt to the temperatures and chemicals. Perhaps we will be able to make food products from jellyfish and algae?

So, if we wipe out the bees will we still survive? Probably. We'll just have to change from a diet that includes nuts and fruits to one that includes new foods like thistles and lichen, algae and cactus, etc. Not to mention, insects. It can be done.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:59 PM   #23
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Agricultural production of what? Inferior products? Lack of sustainable practices that increase cost of food while decreasing quality?

I don't need to "cajole" anyone, people who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear understand the message of: Grow.Your.Own.

Not seeing any measurable impact from transportation costs, packaging costs, putting chemical ferts into the land that run into the waterways for a $1. Well, that's just ignorance and short sighted isn't it?

I suggest you keep eating the peasants food, and that's the last bit of time i'll waste on you.
Not sure why you take it personally. I never said that was a nice $1 head of lettuce. I've grown my own lettuce. Among many other vegetables. I enjoy them. I'm just not under any illusion that I'd ever be able to produce enough to go without the supermarket variety, especially mid-winter.

And I'm especially not under any illusion that a country growing more urban literally by the day is suddenly going to see an explosive growth in the number of people willing to subsistence garden. It's not a trivial amount of work. Most people lead far too busy of lives to suddenly become hobby farmers.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:12 PM   #24
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Don't worry. The top 1% will still be able to procure whatever delicacies their hearts desire.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:07 PM   #25
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One thing I would suggest here, folks, and this is something that happens ALL the time in the media.

They publish ONE study with a scary or semi-scary result and they act like it's unquestioned fact and the world is ending.

Don't blindly swallow it. It's one study, folks.
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