The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-28-2013, 09:30 AM   #376
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineLegion View Post
Because the guy you are expecting to be the keystone of your offense has never started a game in the NFL, has never been healthy for a full season, and has been a project for four years; that and the fact that we don't need any extra cap space.
1. Tamme only played about 40% of snaps LAST year, without Wes Welker.
2. Who are you going to take off the field, so Tamme can play? Welker, DT, or Decker? (answer: none)
3. What % of snaps do you think Tamme will play this year? 20%?
4. Don't just look at the cap savings this year, look at it over the next two years. It's ~$5M in savings (2013/2014) if you cut Tamme now (who can't block).
5. Disregarding the Broncos FA's (Woodyard, Decker, Beadles), what do you think the Broncos could get for $5M in 2014? Maybe a real SS?

If they keep him great. But I don't see keeping both Tamme and Dreessen, especially if Julius Thomas continues to be a focal point of the Offense in pre-season. It would be wise to let go of one of them.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:36 AM   #377
DENVERDUI55
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
1. Tamme only played about 40% of snaps LAST year, without Wes Welker.
2. Who are you going to take off the field, so Tamme can play? Welker, DT, or Decker? (answer: none)
3. What % of snaps do you think Tamme will play this year? 20%?
4. Don't just look at the cap savings this year, look at it over the next two years. It's ~$5M in savings (2013/2014) if you cut Tamme now (who can't block).
5. Disregarding the Broncos FA's (Woodyard, Decker, Beadles), what do you think the Broncos could get for $5M in 2014? Maybe a real SS?

If they keep him great. But I don't see keeping both Tamme and Dreessen, especially if Julius Thomas continues to be a focal point of the Offense in pre-season. It would be wise to let go of one of them.
You talk like Dressen, Tamme, and OJ are all the same player. Dressen is making this team he is only complete TE out of that bunch. Tamme sticks in my opinion because you can't expect OJ to stay healthy even if he has looked like Jimmy Graham.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:43 AM   #378
Br0nc0Buster
2013 AFC Champs
 
Br0nc0Buster's Avatar
 
Shabby, not too

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,473
Default

Darren McKee @dmac1043

Another day where Burrtone is w the ones this time rotating w adams as Moore stays in
Br0nc0Buster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:44 AM   #379
yerner
Ring of Famer
 
yerner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlottesville VA
Posts: 3,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
1. Tamme only played about 40% of snaps LAST year, without Wes Welker.
2. Who are you going to take off the field, so Tamme can play? Welker, DT, or Decker? (answer: none)
3. What % of snaps do you think Tamme will play this year? 20%?
4. Don't just look at the cap savings this year, look at it over the next two years. It's ~$5M in savings (2013/2014) if you cut Tamme now (who can't block).
5. Disregarding the Broncos FA's (Woodyard, Decker, Beadles), what do you think the Broncos could get for $5M in 2014? Maybe a real SS?

If they keep him great. But I don't see keeping both Tamme and Dreessen, especially if Julius Thomas continues to be a focal point of the Offense in pre-season. It would be wise to let go of one of them.
I think you're underestimating how much Peyton likes Tamme. I think it may trump all those points.
yerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:49 AM   #380
baja
It is what it Is.
 
baja's Avatar
 
Pay attention.

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,425

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerner View Post
I think you're underestimating how much Peyton likes Tamme. I think it may trump all those points.
Wait to he has a taste of Wes Welker things may change.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:51 AM   #381
baja
It is what it Is.
 
baja's Avatar
 
Pay attention.

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,425

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

I predict Tamme is traded so we can keep an extra WR. We have too many players at the position who are all more valuable that a TE that duplicates what Welker brings.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:51 AM   #382
DivineLegion
The Surgeon Cometh
 
DivineLegion's Avatar
 
Tic' Toc' The Manning Clock

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Peak of Good Living
Posts: 4,782

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Nate Irving
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
1. Tamme only played about 40% of snaps LAST year, without Wes Welker.
2. Who are you going to take off the field, so Tamme can play? Welker, DT, or Decker? (answer: none)
Yes, none because when we play in a 311 personnel group Tamme will still be on the field, or Thomas. The only player who stands to lose snaps is Joel Dreessen, and he will still probably get just as much action as last season with or without Welker. I don't think they are going to drastically change the personnel groups they use because we upgraded Brandon Stokley.

3. What % of snaps do you think Tamme will play this year? 20%?
Depends on whether or not he wins the starting job. Yesterday JT took primarily second team snaps. Even if he gets less than 40% does that make his presence as QUALITY veteran depth any less valuable?

4. Don't just look at the cap savings this year, look at it over the next two years. It's ~$5M in savings (2013/2014) if you cut Tamme now (who can't block).
I never suggested that we shouldn't look elsewhere next season, I would be more comfortable letting him go next year, when we know without a shadow of doubt we have players that can fill his role with certainty. I would be all for cutting him next season if it meant keeping Woody, Decker, and Beadles. But we have to have a legit replacement in place before I see that as a reasonable progression.

5. Disregarding the Broncos FA's (Woodyard, Decker, Beadles), what do you think the Broncos could get for $5M in 2014? Maybe a real SS?

If they keep him great. But I don't see keeping both Tamme and Dreessen, especially if Julius Thomas continues to be a focal point of the Offense in pre-season. It would be wise to let go of one of them.
You are talking about the 2014 offseason like we are in the middle of it. We are about to enter into the 2013 season, and our roster is equip with quality depth (ie guys who can fill in with little drop in production). As a team that is preparing for a playoff run, I feel like having that flexibility is invaluable. Don't believe me? Ask the Baltimore Ravens. I'm excited Julius is making big plays, but that to me makes this team stronger. Taking away a guy who is a competent, between, with no viable replacement to save 3mil in cap space for next season, which is a full season away, because you are thinking about 8 months from now, and he has real value this season is stupid.

Last edited by DivineLegion; 07-28-2013 at 09:55 AM..
DivineLegion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 09:52 AM   #383
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
You talk like Dressen, Tamme, and OJ are all the same player. Dressen is making this team he is only complete TE out of that bunch. Tamme sticks in my opinion because you can't expect OJ to stay healthy even if he has looked like Jimmy Graham.
Well, yeah. You have to keep Dreessen. Dreessen is the inline TE who will start all the time. O'Connell rounds out the unit. Not sure how long the Julius story lasts, but the Broncos are clearly trying to make him the lead move TE.

Divine Legion:
1. In '11' personnel, Dreessen will always be the starter.
2. In choosing between Stokley and Tamme, you choose Tamme 50% of the time.
3. In choosing between Welker, Tamme, and Julius Thomas...Tamme's snaps drop significantly.
4. If you wait until 2014 to cut Tamme, there is only $3M in cap savings (not $5.6M).

The question is: are 25 balls worth $3M? Doubt it. I wouldn't be hurt if they cut Tamme, nor if they keep him. It really all depends on how good JT can get by the end of preseason.

Last edited by pricejj; 07-28-2013 at 10:04 AM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:03 AM   #384
McDman
Ring of Famer
 
McDman's Avatar
 
Huzzah!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,578

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Why is everyone all of over JT's nuts again? Unless he can block, the kid isn't going to play.
McDman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #385
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

We can have DT, Welker, Decker, and Tamme all on the field at the same time. That means there won't be an additional TE, FB, or WR on the field.

Price is right that Welker will not be coming off the field for Tamme, but that's not to say Tamme can't come on the field, as I have said from day one there isn't much value in a FB in our offense.

I believe the plan was to have Tamme and Dreesen on the roster until JT and Green were ready to play full time. JT is your pass catcher like Tamme, with way more upside.. and Green is your blocker more complete TE similar to Dreesen.

With TEs dropping left and right, I would much rather have all 4 on the roster again, if a spot was needed, cut Hester. His value is very limited moving forward. He didn't run particularly well when it mattered, especially short yardage in the playoff game.. And he's not a better blocker than Green or Dreesen. Green could play FB in a pinch. He won't offer anything to the ground game, but he's an improvement in blocking and at worst a wash as a receiving option.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #386
DivineLegion
The Surgeon Cometh
 
DivineLegion's Avatar
 
Tic' Toc' The Manning Clock

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Peak of Good Living
Posts: 4,782

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Nate Irving
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Well, yeah. You have to keep Dreessen. Dreessen is the inline TE who will start all the time. O'Connell rounds out the unit. Not sure how long the Julius story lasts, but the Broncos are clearly trying to make him the lead move TE.

Divine Legion:
1. In '11' personnel, Dreessen will always be the starter.
2. In choosing between Stokley and Tamme, you choose Tamme 50% of the time.
3. In choosing between Welker, Tamme, and Julius Thomas...Tamme's snaps drop significantly.
4. If you wait until 2014 to cut Tamme, there is only $3M in cap savings (not $5.6M).

The question is: are 25 balls worth $3M? Doubt it. I wouldn't be hurt if they cut Tamme, nor if they keep him. It really all depends on how good JT can get by the end of preseason.
You are totally missing the point. We need to have a backup pass catching TE, its either Julius Thomas or Jacob Tamme, there aren't any other options on the roster. Do you really want to put all your eggs in JTs basket?

Yes we save 5 million dollars over two years right? But the cap savings for the 2014 season would still be the same, so why cut your depth heading into this season with no viable backup on the roster? You an find his replacement next May, and send his ass on the road, that's fine. This season it would be a hell of a lot more reasonable to keep Tamme around, and not risk getting caught without a backup pass catching TE on the roster.

It doesn't matter how much playing time the guy gets, he's fits the mold for an integral part of this offense, and because of that is quality as depth or a starter.
DivineLegion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:16 AM   #387
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,262
Default

Darren McKee ‏@dmac1043 6m Coach fox chatting up bob sanders. pic.twitter.com/jDAOYx2Y7B

Bmore: There will be slightly more value with a FB (Hester) this year, now that Gibbs is in the fold. I expect to see some more 2-back sets to close out games.

Divine Legion: You're points are all valid. It's a tough call.

Last edited by pricejj; 07-28-2013 at 10:19 AM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:18 AM   #388
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quiet honestly it's because Price is looking ahead at our Free Agents and wants to roll over the extra cap money from this year to next.

He doesn't value Tamme at his current value, and is willing to roll the dice in the name of rolling extra cap space to next year..

Just as he would rather cut Kuper, it's about the Cap and long term with Price.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:18 AM   #389
baja
It is what it Is.
 
baja's Avatar
 
Pay attention.

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,425

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
We can have DT, Welker, Decker, and Tamme all on the field at the same time. That means there won't be an additional TE, FB, or WR on the field.

Price is right that Welker will not be coming off the field for Tamme, but that's not to say Tamme can't come on the field, as I have said from day one there isn't much value in a FB in our offense.

I believe the plan was to have Tamme and Dreesen on the roster until JT and Green were ready to play full time. JT is your pass catcher like Tamme, with way more upside.. and Green is your blocker more complete TE similar to Dreesen.

With TEs dropping left and right, I would much rather have all 4 on the roster again, if a spot was needed, cut Hester. His value is very limited moving forward. He didn't run particularly well when it mattered, especially short yardage in the playoff game.. And he's not a better blocker than Green or Dreesen. Green could play FB in a pinch. He won't offer anything to the ground game, but he's an improvement in blocking and at worst a wash as a receiving option.
Running back is probably the biggest question mark of any position on the team , you are right about the value of a FB but i bet they keep Hester at least until Ball rounds into form unless JJ makes the team.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:19 AM   #390
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McDman View Post
Why is everyone all of over JT's nuts again? Unless he can block, the kid isn't going to play.
Perhaps....but then again, they said the same thing about Shannon Sharpe, he improved his blocking to where he was moderately tolerable....but the coaches felt they could live with his adequate blocking because he was a DC's nightmare in the open field.

The coaching staff's confidence in Thomas' ability/potential is evidently pretty high if he's practicing with the 1st teamers
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:23 AM   #391
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,233
Default

Tamme will make the team if Manning has any say in the matter.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:24 AM   #392
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,183

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
I predict Tamme is traded so we can keep an extra WR. We have too many players at the position who are all more valuable that a TE that duplicates what Welker brings.
But who? Rat birds and Patty are both on our schedule.
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:24 AM   #393
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
Quiet honestly it's because Price is looking ahead at our Free Agents and wants to roll over the extra cap money from this year to next.

He doesn't value Tamme at his current value, and is willing to roll the dice in the name of rolling extra cap space to next year..

Just as he would rather cut Kuper, it's about the Cap and long term with Price.
If Kuper is still gimpy, and Tamme only catches 25 balls, it's tough to imagine them contributing significantly to wins this year. Why not put that $14.2M in cap space (2013/2014) to some impact players who WILL contribute to wins in 2014 and beyond? The Broncos are struggling with this very question right now.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:27 AM   #394
CEH
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,911
Default

Denver will be unstoppable with the bubble screens to both dt and welker and wait for the bunch formation of dt,welker and jt

This is going to be fun

I would trade Dressen
CEH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:30 AM   #395
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Darren McKee ‏@dmac1043 6m Coach fox chatting up bob sanders. pic.twitter.com/jDAOYx2Y7B

Bmore: There will be slightly more value with a FB (Hester) this year, now that Gibbs is in the fold. I expect to see some more 2-back sets to close out games.

Divine Legion: You're points are all valid. It's a tough call.
I understand your thinking long term and in particularly having every penny for next year..

But let's think about this from a skill standpoint. What can Hester offer that Green cannot at the FB position? My answer is experience and the ability to run if given a handoff.

What can Green offer as a FB that Hester cannot? Better pass catching, better pass protection, and better run blocking.

Who was the Colts FBs during the Manning era? I'll give you a hint if you have to research, don't look for the acronym FB on the roster!
Hint TE

Edit* Bobby Bob Sanders? As in Bobby Bob "I can't stay healthy" Sanders?

Last edited by Bmore Manning; 07-28-2013 at 10:34 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:33 AM   #396
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
Running back is probably the biggest question mark of any position on the team , you are right about the value of a FB but i bet they keep Hester at least until Ball rounds into form unless JJ makes the team.
I just don't value Hester on our roster.. Green can offer everything he does and more except actual carries. With Hillman, Moreno, and Ball, I don't think there's opportunities for Hester.

Last edited by Bmore Manning; 07-28-2013 at 10:36 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #397
DENVERDUI55
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

The only thing that OJ can be counted on is camp fluff articles and to get hurt. You would be willing to gamble on him and cut Tamme at the start of a SB run? It's not like Denver is in rebuild mode. It is a win now at all costs and you keep Tamme. Hopefully the fluff articles are true about OJ and Tamme never plays but you keep him for insurance.

On a side note can we change the Madise outstanding training camp award to the OJ award?

Last edited by DENVERDUI55; 07-28-2013 at 10:38 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:36 AM   #398
SlyEli
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Darren McKee ‏@dmac1043 32s
Sly Williams just tossed Beadles like yesterday's newspaper. Impressive moment
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:38 AM   #399
jutang
Pro Bowler
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 741
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerner View Post
I think you're underestimating how much Peyton likes Tamme. I think it may trump all those points.
I am sure Peyton loves Stokely more. His main quest is to win another Superbowl. He would trade/cut anybody to make this happen. Same reason why Elway is turning out to be a great GM. No loyalties... All about getting the Lombardi.
jutang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:40 AM   #400
DENVERDUI55
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
I just don't value Hester on our roster.. Green can offer everything he does and more except actual carries. With Hillman, Moreno, and Ball, I don't think there's opportunities for Hester.
Hester is a player you can cut tell him to keep in shape and pick him up if needed. Nobody is going to sign him. Any of the other guys would be gone immediately.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:44 AM.


Denver Broncos