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Old 08-13-2013, 06:17 PM   #1
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Default Won't Turn Over Your Customer Info to the Government? Get Arrested.

The owner of an encrypted email service used by ex-NSA contractor Edward Snowden said he has been threatened with criminal charges for refusing to comply with a secret surveillance order to turn over information about his customers.

"I could be arrested for this action," Ladar Levison told NBC News about his decision to shut down his company, Lavabit LLC, in protest over a secret court order he had received from a federal court that is overseeing the investigation into Snowden.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...nce-order?lite
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:18 PM   #2
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The court order that prompted the action is believed by legal observers to be a sealed subpoena or a national security letter requiring him to cooperate in surveillance related to the Snowden investigation. Recipients of such legal orders are barred from publicly comment on them. Levison said he believes this prohibition is a violation of his First Amendment rights while the underlying request violated the Fourth Amendment rights of his customers. "I'm fighting it in every way," said Levison, adding that he is challenging the government’s action in a federal appeals court.

"Because the government has barred Lavabit from disclosing the nature of its demands, we still don't know what information the government is seeking, or why it's seeking it," said Ben Wizner, a national security lawyer for the ACLU. "It's hard to have a debate about the reasonableness of the government's actions — or Lavabit's response, for that matter — when we don't know what we're debating."


Secret courts? Secret investigations? Secret subpoenas? Public comment outlawed? No probable cause?

It strikes me that the Founders wouldn't go along with this bull****.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 08-13-2013 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:23 PM   #3
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As much as I have never liked Obama the red diaper baby, the least I had hoped was that he'd get rid of Bush's bull****. Instead he's making it worse.

Thanks, Obama Coalition!
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:25 PM   #4
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It strikes me that the Founders wouldn't go along with this bull****.
Ignore existing laws you don't like and pretend that ones you do like do exist without worrying about constitutionality.

You gotta love this commitment to transparency and reform.

SUCKERS.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:35 PM   #5
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Currently reading Orwells 1984. Quite frightening.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:02 PM   #6
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Currently reading Orwells 1984. Quite frightening.
As long as you do your job and participate in Two Minutes Hate, you'll be fine. This sub-forum is where liberals gather for Two Minutes Hate. I think the guys here are expecting to be rewarded for their enthusiastic ranting with a new pair of Outer Party coveralls.

That book should be required reading. It wasn't for us when I was a kid. We read Hiroshima instead. I guess the teachers wanted us to know how evil and war mongering Democrats are.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:08 PM   #7
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I love seeing who's quoting Orwell these days.

Orwell, the democratic socialist.
Orwell, the vehement anti-fascist who equated capitalism with fascism. Orwell, the advocate of class warfare.
Orwell, the man whose very views on life stood against the top 1%.

Yeah, that Orwell.
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:41 AM   #8
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I love seeing who's quoting Orwell these days.

Orwell, the democratic socialist.
Orwell, the vehement anti-fascist who equated capitalism with fascism. Orwell, the advocate of class warfare.
Orwell, the man whose very views on life stood against the top 1%.

Yeah, that Orwell.
Not that there isn't some truth to what you're saying, but it's always a dangerous exercise to transplant the slide rule of ideas from one century to the next.

To some extent, the ideas stand on their own, or they don't. Reverse ad-hominem is no more effective than the original.

Anyway, thank god for people like Levison. Taking a stand and taking that standing to (public) court is the best thing that can happen.

Last edited by BroncoBeavis; 08-14-2013 at 06:43 AM..
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:03 AM   #9
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I love seeing who's quoting Orwell these days.

Orwell, the democratic socialist.
Orwell, the vehement anti-fascist who equated capitalism with fascism. Orwell, the advocate of class warfare.
Orwell, the man whose very views on life stood against the top 1%.

Yeah, that Orwell.
Tell me all about it when they alligator clip the electrodes to your nipples and send 10,000 volts through your naked body just to see you dance and take bets as to when you will shiit yourself.

Watch the movie "V" for Vengeance and see if you see any similarities to the direction the US government is going.

Smug blind trust won't save you.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:07 AM   #10
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Tell me all about it when they alligator clip the electrodes to your nipples and send 10,000 volts through your naked body just to see you dance and take bets as to when you will shiit yourself.

Watch the movie "V" for Vengeance and see if you see any similarities to the direction the US government is going.

Smug blind trust won't save you.
You apparently, and this is not entirely out of character for you, completely missed the point of my statement.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:11 AM   #11
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You apparently, and this is not entirely out of character for you, completely missed the point of my statement.
and the guys running the juice through the electrodes will be equally as nonsensical
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:14 AM   #12
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I get your point. I speak to your over all cavalier attitude toward the take over of the American government. It's frustrating because you're smart and still don't get it.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:08 AM   #13
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I get your point. I speak to your over all cavalier attitude toward the take over of the American government. It's frustrating because you're smart and still don't get it.
It's not a takeover. It's not a "conspiracy" so much as it is generation after generation of people in power who use that power to make it easier for them to suckle on the teat of the system they created. The end result is the same. The only difference is that in my scenario the system is more or less self sustaining because if they kill the hog they starve.

Your scenario ends with Armageddon and requires belief in a bunch of barely plausible "events". It's so like a religion it's scary.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:19 PM   #14
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That doesn't change the text in his book. I always find it funny how you libs avoid the thread topics and only criticize others. Comment on the topic or stfu you coward.

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Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
I love seeing who's quoting Orwell these days.

Orwell, the democratic socialist.
Orwell, the vehement anti-fascist who equated capitalism with fascism. Orwell, the advocate of class warfare.
Orwell, the man whose very views on life stood against the top 1%.

Yeah, that Orwell.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #15
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It's not a takeover. It's not a "conspiracy" so much as it is generation after generation of people in power who use that power to make it easier for them to suckle on the teat of the system they created. The end result is the same. The only difference is that in my scenario the system is more or less self sustaining because if they kill the hog they starve.
Kinda like in Orwell's book. We just haven't reached its levels of control yet.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:02 PM   #16
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Kinda like in Orwell's book. We just haven't reached its levels of control yet.
It's an allegory. That level of control on that kind of scale simply isn't possible. That doesn't mean some people won't try. The novel wasn't about what he thought might happen some day in the future, it was about what was happening right now. Orwell did not realistically believe that there would be three nations and all that stuff. It's a story, much like Animal Farm. Those animals didn't really talk, btw.

But the solution to preventing a society like that, and I'm sure Orwell would have agreed, is not to eschew the public, move to another country, buy gold and preach the end is nigh.

Orwell was a socialist, but a democratic socialist. It is within our power to keep things from getting too far out of hand. The power is with the proles, and the power is in the vote. We need to be letting every last citizen be able to voice their opinion through the election process. More voting rights, not fewer.

Oh and btw, that statement about it being amazing who quotes Orwell wasn't directed at you, necessarily. There are plenty of people on both the left and the right (mostly on the right), however, who would have told you Orwell wrote War of the Worlds back when the Patriot Act was passed, and now all of the sudden they're ****ing literary scholars.

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Old 08-14-2013, 08:41 PM   #17
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That doesn't change the text in his book. I always find it funny how you libs avoid the thread topics and only criticize others. Comment on the topic or stfu you coward.
So well said. They whined and complained for 8 years before Obama about any and everything, even imagined things, but now, it's "oh well, everyone does it" accepting BS. Phonies are the liberals who support Obama and showing clear evidence they stand for nothing except wanting power over others and tell everyone what to do.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:55 PM   #18
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So well said. They whined and complained for 8 years before Obama about any and everything, even imagined things, but now, it's "oh well, everyone does it" accepting BS. Phonies are the liberals who support Obama and showing clear evidence they stand for nothing except wanting power over others and tell everyone what to do.
They must support "The Party".
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:57 PM   #19
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So well said. They whined and complained for 8 years before Obama about any and everything, even imagined things, but now, it's "oh well, everyone does it" accepting BS. Phonies are the liberals who support Obama and showing clear evidence they stand for nothing except wanting power over others and tell everyone what to do.
And this guy, ant199e, is example A No. 1 of what I was talking about.

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"whine about rights violations from the Patriot Act despite still unable to find one law abiding citizen whose rights have been violated"

"The pissants complain about the Patriot Act, but have yet to offer even one, much less the countless people that claim whose rights would be violated from it. Forget it has actually saved lives. That's beside the point for the "smart" ones."

"The Patriot Act was supposedly so bad and would take away everyone's rights, yet I have yet to see whose rights have been violated."
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpos...&postcount=214
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:15 AM   #20
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Ouch!
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:01 AM   #21
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And this guy, ant199e, is example A No. 1 of what I was talking about.



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpos...&postcount=214
http://www.kean.edu/~eslprog/accents...ge2006_13.html

Or goggle "How does the patriot act violate the constitution"


You will get more links that you can read in a reasonable length of time.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:19 AM   #22
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thanks again Patriot Act...

edit: baja beat me to it
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