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Old 07-06-2013, 06:18 PM   #1
g6matty
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Default On topic.. Lets discuss our DBs

Soo we havent had much discussion on here lately actually about football beings it is the off season and theres a lot of down time .

We have a plethora of capable of DB's being it corner or safety. Id like to see how people think it will shake out this season . Starters back ups and cuts. Elway has shown hes not afraid to let young guys step up and cut veterans he just signed like he did last year.

Personally hate when people refer to chris harris as strictly a nickle corner. Last year he was our number 2 when tracy porter went down with bis issues. I realise he kicks inside at times and covered welker almost exclusivley when we played the patriots but that kid has real skills. Hes a freakin diamond in the rough if we ever found one. Does anyone think he could replace champ long term as our number 1 corner if he continues to develope? He was ranked #5 by PFF last year.

Another thing id like to see playout is quinton carter securing the SS spot. Im a big mike adams hater and was sad when carter got hurt . He had a few ints last year that was nice to see as a rook. Idk how his skills translate really between ss and fs but coming from college i thought he was the more physical between he and rahim. Thats an oldschool aproach by sayin the ss has to be a more physical guy but i kinda stick by that and i think fox & del rio would like to i they could.

The way id like to seethe depth chart shake out is as follows

Champ
DRC
harris
Bolden/webster

And cut tony carter. Hes too small to play on our D i never really liked him he gets picked on big time by taller receivers.

At safety

Rahim / carter
Bruton / jammer

Cut mike adams. Not sure if he has any garentees forcing us to keep him around but i guess id be ok with him for depth if that is the case
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:30 PM   #2
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Probably the most interesting battle going into to TC will be in the secondary

I have full trust in Harris to be a starter when Champ retires, but for whatever reason the FO seems to like Harris best as the nickel corner

I guess they want more size on the outside with the additions of guys like Webster, Bolden, and DRC

I think at corner the locks are Harris, DRC, Bailey, and Webster with Bolden and Carter fighting for the last spot if we only keep 5

At safety it seems that we want our SS to cover TEs and will ask man coverage of him a lot
Because of that I am not sure Q Carter is an ideal fit to start for us there
I really liked him a lot coming out of OU, but I could see him being the odd man out here

Jammer will take Jim Leanoard's role

Moore and Bruton are locks, and I think Jammer and Adams make the team as well

Overall I think we keep 10 in the backfield with Q Carter getting cut so we can keep 6 corners
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:00 PM   #3
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I have always found Carter to be overrated by this forum.. But I would still like to get something back for him! I do agree he's the odd man out, Bolden was just drafted last year, and they won't give up on him already.

The safety battle should be interesting. I see no reason to cut the solid Adams. We aren't strapped for cap space, unless he's in the package to get another player with Tony Carter, I see no reason to move him.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by g6matty View Post
Soo we havent had much discussion on here lately actually about football beings it is the off season and theres a lot of down time .

We have a plethora of capable of DB's being it corner or safety. Id like to see how people think it will shake out this season . Starters back ups and cuts. Elway has shown hes not afraid to let young guys step up and cut veterans he just signed like he did last year.

Personally hate when people refer to chris harris as strictly a nickle corner. Last year he was our number 2 when tracy porter went down with bis issues. I realise he kicks inside at times and covered welker almost exclusivley when we played the patriots but that kid has real skills. Hes a freakin diamond in the rough if we ever found one. Does anyone think he could replace champ long term as our number 1 corner if he continues to develope? He was ranked #5 by PFF last year.

Another thing id like to see playout is quinton carter securing the SS spot. Im a big mike adams hater and was sad when carter got hurt . He had a few ints last year that was nice to see as a rook. Idk how his skills translate really between ss and fs but coming from college i thought he was the more physical between he and rahim. Thats an oldschool aproach by sayin the ss has to be a more physical guy but i kinda stick by that and i think fox & del rio would like to i they could.

The way id like to seethe depth chart shake out is as follows

Champ
DRC
harris
Bolden/webster

And cut tony carter. Hes too small to play on our D i never really liked him he gets picked on big time by taller receivers.

At safety

Rahim / carter
Bruton / jammer

Cut mike adams. Not sure if he has any garentees forcing us to keep him around but i guess id be ok with him for depth if that is the case
What about Tony Carter? Nobody at CB made more plays than Carter. He'll be the dime back with Boldin and Webster fight for the final spots.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:05 PM   #5
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What about Tony Carter? Nobody at CB made more plays than Carter. He'll be the dime back with Boldin and Webster fight for the final spots.
Nobody made more plays than Carter? Two INTs off overthrown and under thrown balls, and a right place right time fumble recovery for TD. But I'm curious what other standout plays he made in coverage?

There's no way Bolden and Webster battle for one spot. They are safe.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:07 PM   #6
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I don't understand the hate for Tony Carter, he is a stud at Man to man.

If you read between the lines in a DRC fluff piece a week or so ago it sounds like we are going to play a ton of Man this year. If so we need to keep Tony Carter.

The other thing to consider is that Fox and JDR seem to like to rotate guys in a lot.

Look at all the playing time Leonhard got at Safety last year and the time Carter got as well.

The thing I really love about Tony Carter is that even when he is giving up a size to a tall guy, like he did in the 1st week of PS vs Alton Jefferies, he doesn't change his game or let it get him down. He forces the QB to place the ball and does what the staff asks of him. You cannot discount guys like that on your team.

As far as Q. Carter I don't like his off field baggage (even if it was dropped) and the fact he can't stay healthy to find the field. The last thing I read about him said he still wasn't medically cleared to workout with the team. We should know more when TC starts in a few weeks but the Signing of Jammer and DRC doesn't bode well for Q.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:10 PM   #7
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Nobody made more plays than Carter? Two INTs off overthrown and under thrown balls, and a right place right time fumble recovery for TD. But I'm curious what other standout plays he made in coverage?

There's no way Bolden and Webster battle for one spot. They are safe.
Carter played well last year until the final few games when coaches believed he was worn out. Bolden and Webster will both make the team but they wiull have the final spots. T. Carter will be ahead of both of them, unless of course Webster just blows up in camp and preseason. That would be good if it happens.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:16 PM   #8
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I have this image of carter getting mossed in the sandiego game burned in my head. Hes an ok man to man guy but lets be real he is under sized and gives up a lot of catches. For a 4th cb i guess u cant do much better but if drc/bailey get hurt id hate to see him start for us on the outside. Let the young guys step up and see what they got
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:30 PM   #9
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I have always found Carter to be overrated by this forum.. But I would still like to get something back for him! I do agree he's the odd man out, Bolden was just drafted last year, and they won't give up on him already.

The safety battle should be interesting. I see no reason to cut the solid Adams. We aren't strapped for cap space, unless he's in the package to get another player with Tony Carter, I see no reason to move him.
He played quite a bit better than Moore in their rookie years. Carter to was just drafted recently. Unless he is total garbage in TC and preseason I don't see him getting cut.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:31 PM   #10
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Here is a huge article on Denver's defensive backs also has a video.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-an...e-85857a953cdc
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:04 PM   #11
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Here is an article discussing the versatility of the secondary.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-an...8-474ab95d97af
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:06 PM   #12
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What do you pay Chris Harris when his contract is due?

A five year $36 million with $12 million sound fair?
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:08 PM   #13
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He played quite a bit better than Moore in their rookie years. Carter to was just drafted recently. Unless he is total garbage in TC and preseason I don't see him getting cut.
I think carter is Ufda.

He was here, we cut him, he went to the pats for a year, they cut him, we got him back and he played for a year.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:33 PM   #14
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What do you pay Chris Harris when his contract is due?

A five year $36 million with $12 million sound fair?
He's good and I'd like him in Denver a long time, but that is a big deal.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:42 PM   #15
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First let's just roll out what we know.

Starters - Champ (CB) Moore (Safety)

After that there are going to be some fabulous battles.

I think Fox likes Harris as the Nickle because he is savy for how young he is and he is better within 20 yards of the LOS. He lacks great speed on the outside. DRC has elite physical attributes and has played at a really high level before so I see those 2 as the other 2 CB's on the field the most.

Webster being a rookie will make the team but he'll be just soaking it all up and I don't see him getting a ton of minutes regular season. This is the year Boldin has to show some significant improvement. If he's not pushing the starters towards the end of the year (if he's healthy) I'm not sure he's starting material. Tony Carter I think makes the team. He's little but he's sticky as all hell in 1 on 1. You could always use a guy like that. Quinton Carter also has to show a big jump. Know he was hurt last year but they're not going to just cut Adams if Quinton isn't pushing him. Bruton stays, too important on ST's. Jammer, just a huge question mark. Honestly I think he's a safety valve in case a few of the younger guys don't look like they are making enough strides.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:46 PM   #16
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He's good and I'd like him in Denver a long time, but that is a big deal.
I agree, but he is so good. Him being underrated will help the Broncos in negotiations. I hope DRC has a greta year comes back next year and Denver cn work on signing Harris to a long term deal as a NB instead of a CB which he would demand more money.

The salary cap is going to go up a lot in the next two years so maybe he will be easy to sign.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:48 PM   #17
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First let's just roll out what we know.

Starters - Champ (CB) Moore (Safety)

After that there are going to be some fabulous battles.

I think Fox likes Harris as the Nickle because he is savy for how young he is and he is better within 20 yards of the LOS. He lacks great speed on the outside. DRC has elite physical attributes and has played at a really high level before so I see those 2 as the other 2 CB's on the field the most.

Webster being a rookie will make the team but he'll be just soaking it all up and I don't see him getting a ton of minutes regular season. This is the year Boldin has to show some significant improvement. If he's not pushing the starters towards the end of the year (if he's healthy) I'm not sure he's starting material. Tony Carter I think makes the team. He's little but he's sticky as all hell in 1 on 1. You could always use a guy like that. Quinton Carter also has to show a big jump. Know he was hurt last year but they're not going to just cut Adams if Quinton isn't pushing him. Bruton stays, too important on ST's. Jammer, just a huge question mark. Honestly I think he's a safety valve in case a few of the younger guys don't look like they are making enough strides.

I agree with you on Carter. His man to man play is terrific. He is undersized and probably does not have the makeup as an everyday starter but I see no instance he does not make the team.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:51 AM   #18
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He played quite a bit better than Moore in their rookie years. Carter to was just drafted recently. Unless he is total garbage in TC and preseason I don't see him getting cut.
Other Carter...
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:56 AM   #19
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I don't understand the hate for Tony Carter, he is a stud at Man to man.

If you read between the lines in a DRC fluff piece a week or so ago it sounds like we are going to play a ton of Man this year. If so we need to keep Tony Carter.

The other thing to consider is that Fox and JDR seem to like to rotate guys in a lot.

Look at all the playing time Leonhard got at Safety last year and the time Carter got as well.

The thing I really love about Tony Carter is that even when he is giving up a size to a tall guy, like he did in the 1st week of PS vs Alton Jefferies, he doesn't change his game or let it get him down. He forces the QB to place the ball and does what the staff asks of him. You cannot discount guys like that on your team.

As far as Q. Carter I don't like his off field baggage (even if it was dropped) and the fact he can't stay healthy to find the field. The last thing I read about him said he still wasn't medically cleared to workout with the team. We should know more when TC starts in a few weeks but the Signing of Jammer and DRC doesn't bode well for Q.
We have had this discussion before.. As your dime back he is solid. He got away with man to man and looked decent because he was faster than most of the WRs he went up against.

Watch him closely, he has no recognition of the route tree, he doesn't force anyone to do anything, he just slowly mirrors the WR. He is not going to be the future of this team at CB, physical press man? Please...
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:16 AM   #20
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Cutting Mike Adams seems sort of foolish because he is a steady vet and we could end up needing him. But if Bruton and Carter both make the team and are healthy it could happen. I think it all depends on Bruton being good enough to play some and Carter being healthy.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:44 AM   #21
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Carter played well last year until the final few games when coaches believed he was worn out. Bolden and Webster will both make the team but they wiull have the final spots. T. Carter will be ahead of both of them, unless of course Webster just blows up in camp and preseason. That would be good if it happens.
He got lazy. Both Baltimore games
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #22
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We have had this discussion before.. As your dime back he is solid. He got away with man to man and looked decent because he was faster than most of the WRs he went up against.

Watch him closely, he has no recognition of the route tree, he doesn't force anyone to do anything, he just slowly mirrors the WR. He is not going to be the future of this team at CB, physical press man? Please...
Let's see if we understand this. You want a CB that knows route trees, so that he can try and guess which route the WR is going to run, instead of a CB who knows how to just stick on a guy? C'mon get real will ya. TC knows basic routes, he's an NFL corner and I'm sure he's seen every route there is. I think you're putting too much into this thing. I can't say that I know what an elite CB in the NFL is thinking but I have to say that I don't think they are going to flip a coin and simply just guess what route the WR is going to run. If in man coverage, it's all about reaction, speed and strength. He isn't and won't be a top CB in this league because he's not physical enough. But he's a really scrappy 1 on 1 CB. Most WR's are not going to get alot of separation on him. I feel he has an excellent chance to make this team as the 4th or 5th CB.

Last edited by ZONA; 07-07-2013 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:00 AM   #23
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Let's see if we understand this. You want a CB that knows route trees, so that he can try and guess which route the WR is going to run, instead of a CB who knows how to just stick on a guy? C'mon get real will ya. TC knows basic routes, he's an NFL corner and I'm sure he's seen every route there is. I think you're putting too much into this thing. I can't say that I know what an elite CB in the NFL is thinking but I have to say that I don't think they are going to flip a coin and simply just guess what route the WR is going to run. If in man coverage, it's all about reaction, speed and strength. I don't know about anybody else but I'm not here to day TC is a top rated CB. I don't think he is, he's got his flaws. But he's a really scrappy 1 on 1 CB. Most WR's are not going to get alot of separation on him. I feel he has an excellent chance to make this team as the 4th or 5th CB.
Your right you can't say what an Elite NFL corner is thinking, because you are mocking me for insinuating a shutdown corner knows the route tree inside and out, and will know where the receiver is going based on his movement, where he is lined up, where they are on the field, his and the QB's tendencies.

Revis uses all of those elements in his game as I'm sure other great CBs do as well.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:04 AM   #24
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..........and I also wanted to comment, if DRC can regain some of his mojo from a few years ago..........whoa, this secondary could be special.

You'd have Champ, who still gets it done. A bad day here or there but overall still top 5 CB. Harris, a young playmaker who doesn't almost everything well. Not elite speed but savy for his age and good tackler. Same as Champ, both guys tackle really well. And if we get the DRC from 3 years ago, this becomes the best CB squad in the league. If Moore can improve as much this year as he did last year and then one other guy steps up to be really solid. Honestly it could be the best overall secondary in the league.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #25
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Your right you can't say what an Elite NFL corner is thinking, because you are mocking me for insinuating a shutdown corner knows the route tree inside and out, and will know where the receiver is going based on his movement, where he is lined up, where they are on the field, his and the QB's tendencies.

Revis uses all of those elements in his game as I'm sure other great CBs do as well.
I'm sure all of what you said is mostly pre-snap. Once that WR takes off and it's live bullets, that CB is reacting, I don't care what you say. QB and WR tendencies have nothing to do with knowing route trees. That's just basic film study of what tendencies a player might have that he gives away. And in man on man, it really is all about reaction. I think position and anticipation come more into play when a CB is in zone.
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