The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #226
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Ooooh, forced federal "current events" lessons. I think Chairman M and JoStal had something like that. This progressive vision just gets better and better.
Pretty much every young person i work with is completely ignorant to current events. Hell, most people I work with are clueless if you gave them a blank map of Europe. Open a ****ing new york times and discuss ****.

THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #227
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
I think anything before 5th grade is too soon for sex education. Make it mandatory and have actual health professionals teach it, not gym coaches. I remember in 9th grade being broken up into boy/girl classes so we could learn about our bodies. Nothing is as awkward as a lesbian gym teacher explaining to a bunch of 14 year old boys the mechanics of an erection.

That's hilarious, and not exactly the same as my experience, but fits with the overall feel of the whole thing. These guys act like public schools are sending out top tier behavioral psychologists and medical professionals to lead these sessions,

Parents may not be perfect. But 80% of them are better than the walking nut cups that get stuck wrapping bananas for a bunch of heckling punks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #228
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
I think anything before 5th grade is too soon for sex education. Make it mandatory and have actual health professionals teach it, not gym coaches. I remember in 9th grade being broken up into boy/girl classes so we could learn about our bodies. Nothing is as awkward as a lesbian gym teacher explaining to a bunch of 14 year old boys the mechanics of an erection.

I agree 5th/6th grade is the appropriate time to start teaching because puberty generally starts about then. And I agree it shouldnt be gym teachers.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #229
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Pretty much every young person i work with is completely ignorant to current events. Hell, most people I work with are clueless if you gave them a blank map of Europe. Open a ****ing new york times and discuss ****.

THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One man's NYT is another man's WSJ. Therein lies the problem. The only reconciliation is in individual liberty.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #230
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
That's hilarious, and not exactly the same as my experience, but fits with the overall feel of the whole thing. These guys act like public schools are sending out top tier behavioral psychologists and medical professionals to lead these sessions,

Parents may not be perfect. But 80% of them are better than the walking nut cups that get stuck wrapping bananas for a bunch of heckling punks.
Most parents never have discussions like that with their kids. Then people walk around afraid they might be pregnant from a blowjob. What the hell are you so afraid of?
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #231
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Pretty much every young person i work with is completely ignorant to current events. Hell, most people I work with are clueless if you gave them a blank map of Europe. Open a ****ing new york times and discuss ****.

THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most young people are completely ignorant of current events. Then they work a few years and they notice a steady decline in the amount of take home pay they get. THEN they pay attention. That is the charm of being young. You really are just dumb about everything.

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #232
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
One man's NYT is another man's WSJ. Therein lies the problem. The only reconciliation is in individual liberty.
Youre impossible. You really think learning about the current world around you is a BAD THING? Holy hell.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:54 PM   #233
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
Most young people are completely ignorant of current events. Then they work a few years and they notice a steady decline in the amount of take home pay they get. THEN they pay attention. That is the charm of being young. You really are just dumb about everything.

Well, most young people are ignorant about politics because they don't understand how it affects them, but Current Events stretches beyond politics.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:55 PM   #234
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
That's hilarious, and not exactly the same as my experience, but fits with the overall feel of the whole thing. These guys act like public schools are sending out top tier behavioral psychologists and medical professionals to lead these sessions,

Parents may not be perfect. But 80% of them are better than the walking nut cups that get stuck wrapping bananas for a bunch of heckling punks.

My parents had the sex talk with me when I was about 14 (it was a big year, apparently). It went as follows: mom: "If you make me a grandmother before you finish college I'll kill you." dad "yeah...your mother will kill you. wrap it up. I have condoms in the drawer by my side of the bed or ask and I'll get you some."

I think it would help if health class was an actual, established class and not an add on for gym. At least that is how it was when I was in HS.

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:56 PM   #235
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,123

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Young children continually challenge the difference between "That's stupid" and "You're stupid"

I think for the most part they figure out the difference around 2nd-3rd grade. But keep trying. You'll get there.

(that last part was an ad hominem, for your reference, just in case you need it for your next session as OM Language Professor )


You've just more and more proving your ignorance.

If you want to call me shallow instead of actually addressing my position. Go right ahead. But that's exactly what an ad hominem is. Silly hand waving trying to pretend you weren't doing that is not convincing anyone. It just shows how little integrity you have.

If you want to have some modicum of integrity (and provide a non fallacious argument), then actually address what I was saying.

So, do you have any integrity Beavis or are you happy to rest on an ad hominem?
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:56 PM   #236
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Youre impossible. You really think learning about the current world around you is a BAD THING? Holy hell.
Didn't say it was a bad thing. Just that it should never (ever) be a forced thing. Schools can teach outrageous things too. Any free individual by definition has to be free to walk away.

Which is why universal vouchers would be the best approach to education in general.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:57 PM   #237
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Well, most young people are ignorant about politics because they don't understand how it affects them, but Current Events stretches beyond politics.

Current events is the bridge into politics, IMO. And it should be something kids learn about. There is more to the world then Yourcity USA.


Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:00 PM   #238
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post


You've just more and more proving your ignorance.

If you want to call me shallow instead of actually addressing my position. Go right ahead. But that's exactly what an ad hominem is. Silly hand waving trying to pretend you weren't doing that is not convincing anyone. It just shows how little integrity you have.

If you want to have some modicum of integrity (and provide a non fallacious argument), then actually address what I was saying.

So, do you have any integrity Beavis or are you happy to rest on an ad hominem?
If anything is clear, it's that you have no clue what you're saying.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:01 PM   #239
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,123

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
If anything is clear, it's that you have no clue what you're saying.
Uh huh. Keep trying bub. No one's convinced.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #240
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Didn't say it was a bad thing. Just that it should never (ever) be a forced thing. Schools can teach outrageous things too. Any free individual by definition has to be free to walk away.

Which is why universal vouchers would be the best approach to education in general.
Schools have to teach something! I think current events is just as important as most other subjects we learn.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #241
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
Current events is the bridge into politics, IMO. And it should be something kids learn about. There is more to the world then Yourcity USA.


Oh, absolutely. Its a Bridge into politics, geography, history, everything.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:20 PM   #242
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Schools have to teach something! I think current events is just as important as most other subjects we learn.
Let me reframe it for you in the context of our discussion.

Kids go to Catholic schools. Lots of them. And there are many other private schools, secular and faith-based. I only use Catholic schools because they're probably the largest group of like-minded private schools in the Country.

Anyway, the kids in these schools are undoubtedly already taught some version of current events. And just as undoubtedly, the selection of and perspective given on those events is different from what a State or Federal government would ever devise for a public classroom. The same principle would apply to sex education.

When I asked if you would ban Catholic schools, in effect I was asking whether you would allow any significant variation from what was described as a state-sanctioned "mandatory" syllabus.

You followed up by saying that current events and sex ed should indeed be 'mandatory' But maybe I misread what you meant, so let me follow up.

Are you saying that children should be forced to learn a state-defined course of education in sex ed and current events with no substantive variation allowed?

Last edited by BroncoBeavis; 06-27-2013 at 02:26 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:01 PM   #243
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Let me reframe it for you in the context of our discussion.

Kids go to Catholic schools. Lots of them. And there are many other private schools, secular and faith-based. I only use Catholic schools because they're probably the largest group of like-minded private schools in the Country.

Anyway, the kids in these schools are undoubtedly already taught some version of current events. And just as undoubtedly, the selection of and perspective given on those events is different from what a State or Federal government would ever devise for a public classroom. The same principle would apply to sex education.

When I asked if you would ban Catholic schools, in effect I was asking whether you would allow any significant variation from what was described as a state-sanctioned "mandatory" syllabus.

You followed up by saying that current events and sex ed should indeed be 'mandatory' But maybe I misread what you meant, so let me follow up.

Are you saying that children should be forced to learn a state-defined course of education in sex ed and current events with no substantive variation allowed?
I think our difference lies in your general distrust of authority and that the "state" is pushing a propaganda issue, which I don't believe. Every high school (or i assume the vast majority) teaches math, history, english, so on...and current events should be equally as important, ESPECIALLY considering our current society. Its a launching point for so many important topics. If you're afraid that a teacher might inject bias into his/her teachings, its a fair point, but he could do that on a multitude of subjects that already exist.

As far as sex ed goes, this is an issue that can help with very tangible problems such as teen pregnancy and STDs. In my high school, we had mandatory health and i found it very helpful.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:04 PM   #244
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,424
Default

I am assuming that Beavis' concern with a current events course would be the potential for editorializing? Am I right? If so, I'd agree that an op-ed from Paul Krugman or David Frum would be out of place. But there is a way to teach current events sans opinion, no different than a history course.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:09 PM   #245
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
I am assuming that Beavis' concern with a current events course would be the potential for editorializing? Am I right? If so, I'd agree that an op-ed from Paul Krugman or David Frum would be out of place. But there is a way to teach current events sans opinion, no different than a history course.
exactly.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:32 PM   #246
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
I think our difference lies in your general distrust of authority and that the "state" is pushing a propaganda issue, which I don't believe. Every high school (or i assume the vast majority) teaches math, history, english, so on...and current events should be equally as important, ESPECIALLY considering our current society. Its a launching point for so many important topics. If you're afraid that a teacher might inject bias into his/her teachings, its a fair point, but he could do that on a multitude of subjects that already exist.

As far as sex ed goes, this is an issue that can help with very tangible problems such as teen pregnancy and STDs. In my high school, we had mandatory health and i found it very helpful.
Look at the history of the world, man. Its not a matter of if the state will engage in propaganda but when. And if the citizenry isn't free to walk away in good conscience, regardless of what's being taught, then we've lost everything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #247
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Look at the history of the world, man. Its not a matter of if the state will engage in propaganda but when. And if the citizenry isn't free to walk away in good conscience, regardless of what's being taught, then we've lost everything.
You're being too paranoid. You could then qualify every single thing we learn as propaganda because elders feel that's whats best to teach. If thats the case, lets just abolish schools all together.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:40 PM   #248
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
I think our difference lies in your general distrust of authority and that the "state" is pushing a propaganda issue, which I don't believe. Every high school (or i assume the vast majority) teaches math, history, english, so on...and current events should be equally as important, ESPECIALLY considering our current society. Its a launching point for so many important topics. If you're afraid that a teacher might inject bias into his/her teachings, its a fair point, but he could do that on a multitude of subjects that already exist.

As far as sex ed goes, this is an issue that can help with very tangible problems such as teen pregnancy and STDs. In my high school, we had mandatory health and i found it very helpful.
As Americans it is a near sacred cow to distrust our government. In the last 12 years we have been told its Patriotic to dissent (even if the sides dissenting have flipped), and that loving your country does not mean you must love the government. Its drilled into us. Our founding happened because of a corrupt government overstepping its bounds. We celebrate breaking away from that. Even our founders knew any government set up to serve the people would in time become corrupted.

So it is not outlandish to be suspicious of government pushed education programs. The potential for propaganda is ridiculously high. On the flip side of that, the federal government is the only one capable of ensuring things that need to be taught are taught. Its a highwire act, and most of the time government falls right off.

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:04 PM   #249
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,022

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
As Americans it is a near sacred cow to distrust our government. In the last 12 years we have been told its Patriotic to dissent (even if the sides dissenting have flipped), and that loving your country does not mean you must love the government. Its drilled into us. Our founding happened because of a corrupt government overstepping its bounds. We celebrate breaking away from that. Even our founders knew any government set up to serve the people would in time become corrupted.

So it is not outlandish to be suspicious of government pushed education programs. The potential for propaganda is ridiculously high. On the flip side of that, the federal government is the only one capable of ensuring things that need to be taught are taught. Its a highwire act, and most of the time government falls right off.

Sure, but its also not healthy to be paranoid about it. I cant help but notice this belief that the government is some alien body that will stab us in the back at a moments notice. Government, as you said, can fall off the highwire, but it does plenty right as well. And, of course, there's some propaganda teachings (the way we were taught about communism in the 1980s, for example), but youre going to get bias from public or private education.

Current events is, to me, a necessary class so people arent ignorant to the world around them. I think know about Middle eastern countries/African countries/asian countries is more beneficial than random explorers that may or may not have found things 500 years ago. Sex Ed serves a very important role about setting facts straight. Its a science class.
SonOfLe-loLang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:13 PM   #250
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Look at the history of the world, man. Its not a matter of if the state will engage in propaganda but when. And if the citizenry isn't free to walk away in good conscience, regardless of what's being taught, then we've lost everything.
What's funny is that you're probably far more likely to get bias in a Catholic school than in a public school. The curriculum in a Catholic school is going to lean "Catholic" and "conservative", as are most of the teachers and administrators. The curriculum in a public school is going to be secular, and the teachers and administrators are going to generally be representative of the community. If your paranoia is at a fever pitch you may want to consider home schooling. That way only you can be blamed for poisoning your children...
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:00 AM.


Denver Broncos