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Old 07-12-2013, 07:59 AM   #451
barryr
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CNN labels Zimmerman as a "white hispanic" and shows as I stated before, the liberal media has wanted this case to be about race from the start. They wanted this to be about a white guy killing some innocent black kid for no reason to show racism in America is still prevalent today and forget about who is sitting in the WH. Liberals think race and apparently gay rights(so many supposed straight liberals sure seem worried about what gays do every day) are subjects they have dibs on.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:05 AM   #452
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CNN labels Zimmerman as a "white hispanic" and shows as I stated before, the liberal media has wanted this case to be about race from the start. They wanted this to be about a white guy killing some innocent black kid for no reason to show racism in America is still prevalent today and forget about who is sitting in the WH. Liberals think race and apparently gay rights(so many supposed straight liberals sure seem worried about what gays do every day) are subjects they have dibs on.
Zimmerman is half-white, dumbass. See:



His mother was born in Peru. His father (pictured above) is from Virginia and is a self-described "American of German descent." So, it's completely accurate to call him a "white-Hispanic."

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:28 AM   #453
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Is it completely accurate to call Obama a white African American?
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:28 AM   #454
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There's another way to paint it: Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch guy. He's driving to the store and sees some guy in a hoodie, standing on somebody's lawn (not on the sidewalk?) in the dark, in the rain, looking up at houses as if he's casing them. He's wearing a dark hoodie pulled over his head. So, Zimmerman starts to shadow the guy in his car (he doesn't know who it is, and doesn't know his age). He pulls ahead of the guy and calls 911. They say they'll send a police car out. Then he sees the guy walk past him and he continues to follow in his car. There have been break-ins before in the neighborhood and the thieves got away. The operator tells him he doesn't need to continue to follow the guy, but Zimmerman thinks he should keep an eye on him. Zimmerman loses the guy behind a house. Suddenly, the guy walks out from behind a house and walks around his car.

Think of what that was like? Was it a stare down? Was Martin checking him out, peering into the car, in the dark, in the rain? Was it hostile? Maybe Martin is armed? What should Zimmerman think? Then, the guy walks back behind the house again. So, Zimmerman gets out to go see where he went, to make sure he doesn't lose the guy so that when police show up, he'll be able to point him out. Suddenly, Martin attacks from out of the dark...

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:37 AM   #455
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Is it completely accurate to call Obama a white African American?
Yes, actually, it is.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:40 AM   #456
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There's another way to paint it: Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch guy. He's driving to the store and sees some guy in a hoodie, standing on somebody's lawn (not on the sidewalk?) in the dark, in the rain, looking up at houses as if he's casing them. He's wearing a dark hoodie pulled over his head. So, Zimmerman starts to shadow the guy in his car (he doesn't know who it is, and doesn't know his age). He pulls ahead of the guy and calls 911. They say they'll send a police car out. Then he sees the guy walk past him and he continues to follow in his car. There have been break-ins before in the neighborhood and the thieves got away. The operator tells him he doesn't need to continue to follow the guy, but Zimmerman thinks he should keep an eye on him. Zimmerman loses the guy behind a house. Suddenly, the guy walks out from behind a house and walks around his car.

Think of what that was like? Was it a stare down? Was Martin checking him out, peering into the car, in the dark, in the rain? Was it hostile? Maybe Martin is armed? What should Zimmerman think? Then, the guy walks back behind the house again. So, Zimmerman gets out to go see where he went, to make sure he doesn't lose the guy so that when police show up, he'll be able to point him out. Suddenly, Martin attacks from out of the dark...
We know that's not how it happened, though. From Zimmerman's own account, even if you choose to take it at face value, that's not how it happened. But all you have to do is listen to the 9-11 call. That establishes well enough Zimmerman's frame of mind. Like Arkie said, he didn't call 9-11 for help. He called for back-up because he was playing cop. He put himself in that situation. That's not the spirit of a self-defense claim. It's probably not murder either, but that's what voluntary manslaughter is for:

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Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion," under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:54 AM   #457
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Yes, actually, it is.
No...it really isn't. Besides, Zimmerman has said he identifies with being Hispanic.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:58 AM   #458
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Is it completely accurate to call Obama a white African American?
It would be accurate but unconventional. It is conventional to call people with any degree of black heritage black.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:00 AM   #459
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Zimmerman is half-white, dumbass. See:



His mother was born in Peru. His father (pictured above) is from Virginia and is a self-described "American of German descent." So, it's completely accurate to call him a "white-Hispanic."
Sure, by race pimps, such as yourself, dumbass. If race wasn't an issue, then why this "white hispanic" nonsense is even brought up? , wasting my time expecting an intelligent answer by a stupid liberal in these forums. Race pimping is the liberal way.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:02 AM   #460
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No...it really isn't.
White mother, literally an African father....uh, yeah, it's accurate. Like machambo said, it's an unconventional designation, but accurate.

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Besides, Zimmerman has said he identifies with being Hispanic.
So? His dad's white. He can identify as Hispanic if he wants, but it's nevertheless accurate - as a point of fact - to say he's a "white Hispanic."
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #461
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Sure, by race pimps, such as yourself, dumbass. If race wasn't an issue, then why this "white hispanic" nonsense is even brought up? , wasting my time expecting an intelligent answer by a stupid liberal in these forums. Race pimping is the liberal way.
How is it "race-pimping" to say Zimmerman is a "white-Hispanic," which he in fact is? Face it, your ignorant ass didn't know Zimmerman's father was white, and you made an utter fool of yourself (once again) by commenting on a situation without all the facts. Par for the course.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #462
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It would be accurate but unconventional. It is conventional to call people with any degree of black heritage black.
Is it conventional to call people with any degree of hispanic heritage a "white hispanic?" Even Juan Williams sees through the BS, but I know, he works for Fox News, so liberals don't consider him a true black man.

"The New York Times has referred to him in unique racial terms as a “white Hispanic." The terminology was necessary to have the story fit into a well-worn news narrative throughout American history from the Scottsboro Boys to Emmett Till to Rodney King – the black victim of white racism. Hispanic people can be as racist as black or white people in a country with a deep history of racism. But, apparently for the Times, Zimmerman's whiteness was important. It fit their good versus evil tale of a white racist killing an innocent black man."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...#ixzz2YqNqGzWU
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:08 AM   #463
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We know that's not how it happened, though. From Zimmerman's own account, even if you choose to take it at face value, that's not how it happened. But all you have to do is listen to the 9-11 call. That establishes well enough Zimmerman's frame of mind. Like Arkie said, he didn't call 9-11 for help. He called for back-up because he was playing cop. He put himself in that situation. That's not the spirit of a self-defense claim. It's probably not murder either, but that's what voluntary manslaughter is for:
Aren't all neighborhood watch people all across the country "playing cop?" That's what it's all about. Here's a video of Trayvon at the store:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnes...2#.UeAaEUHVCSo

If you saw that guy standing on somebody's lawn on a rainy night looking up at the windows, would you think it suspicious? What if he came at you out of the dark?

I don't take it at face value that Zimmerman was following Martin in order to instigate a confrontation. I think he was doing it, like he said, to keep track of him until police arrived. What is there to back that idea up?

From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[72] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[87][88][89] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[90] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

On seven previous calls to police, Zimmerman had never instigated a confrontation. Why would he suddenly change that pattern for Martin?
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:13 AM   #464
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On seven previous calls to police, Zimmerman had never instigated a confrontation. Why would he suddenly change that pattern for Martin?
Because, as he states in the 9-11 call on the night in question, "these a-holes they always get away." No doubt thinking of the previous occasions where his calls were for naught. On that night, he decided to take matters into his own hands.

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:23 AM   #465
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Damn him for trying to help protect his neighborhood. Damn him for caring.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:25 AM   #466
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No...it really isn't. Besides, Zimmerman has said he identifies with being Hispanic.
But saying he's white helps feel like they're getting back at whittey. And helps feed the white guilt.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:28 AM   #467
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Because, as he states in the 9-11 call on the night in question, "these a-holes they always get away." No doubt thinking of the previous occasions where his calls were for naught. On that night, he decided to take matters into his own hands.
That's an assumption. We don't know who instigated the physical conflict. Zimmerman's testimony is that he lost Martin and was returning to his car when he was attacked. The police saw no evidence to the contrary.

On that call he also said, "We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy." Then he said the guy was "just walking around looking about" in the rain and then said, "This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."

I watch the video of Martin at the store and think the same thing. Look how long it takes him to get the money out of his pocket? Watch the body language of the store clerk.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:28 AM   #468
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Damn him for trying to help protect his neighborhood. Damn him for caring.
If Zimmerman had done as the 9-11 operator advised, he'd be a free man and Trayvon Martin would be alive. His "caring" caused far more damage than if he'd let the cops do their job. If Martin was really a thieving thug, he would have gotten busted eventually, if not that night.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #469
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That's an assumption. We don't know who instigated the physical conflict. Zimmerman's testimony is that he lost Martin and was returning to his car when he was attacked. The police saw no evidence to the contrary.

On that call he also said, "We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy." Then he said the guy was "just walking around looking about" in the rain and then said, "This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."

I watch the video of Martin at the store and think the same thing. Look how long it takes him to get the money out of his pocket? Watch the body language of the store clerk.
I'm not assuming anything. The two keys pieces that IMO make this voluntary manslaughter are the 9-11 call which establishes Zimmerman's frame of mind ("these a-holes they always get away") and then the fact that Zimmerman got out of his car and pursued on foot. If he'd stayed in his car, I could buy that he was just trying to track him for the police. But what was the point of getting out of his car? Had he found Martin, was he going to try and physically restrain him (maybe that's what happened...no witnesses saw who started the fight, so we only have Zimmerman's word that he was "jumped")? Pull the gun on him and make him wait for the cops? Either way, it's stretching credulity to suggest that Zimmerman just wanted to track Martin when he could have just as easily and (more importantly) safely done so in his vehicle.

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:37 AM   #470
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If Zimmerman had done as the 9-11 operator advised, he'd be a free man and Trayvon Martin would be alive. His "caring" caused far more damage than if he'd let the cops do their job. If Martin was really a thieving thug, he would have gotten busted eventually, if not that night.
And he could have prevented a home invasion if Martin was out to rob someone. The "cops" respond to crimes after the fact.
The cops were called here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesh...vasion_murders
Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders

That didn't work out so good did it?

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:44 AM   #471
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I'm not assuming anything. The two keys pieces that IMO make this voluntary manslaughter are the 9-11 call which establishes Zimmerman's frame of mind ("these a-holes they always get away") and then the fact that Zimmerman got out of his car and pursued on foot. If he'd stayed in his car, I could buy that he was just trying to track him for the police. But what was the point of getting out of his car? Had he found Martin, was he going to try and physically restrain him (maybe that's what happened...no witnesses saw who started the fight, so we only have Zimmerman's word that he was "jumped")? Pull the gun on him and make him wait for the cops? Either way, it's stretching credulity to suggest that Zimmerman just wanted to track Martin when he could have just as easily and (more importantly) safely done so in his vehicle.
You can see on the map:



Zimmerman's car is parked on the street, just to the left of the "S" in "Shooting." According to his testimony, Martin went behind the houses where there was only a walkway between the houses, and no street. He couldn't drive back there. He lost sight of Martin at that time and got out of the car to see where he'd gone.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:45 AM   #472
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And he could have prevented a home invasion if Martin out to rob someone. The "cops" respond to crimes after the fact.
The cops were called here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesh...vasion_murders
Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders
So his actions are justified because of the very remote chance that Martin was about to break into a home and commit murder? Okay. We don't even know for sure that Martin was really doing anything suspicious. That's Zimmerman's story. There's plenty of reason to doubt his word.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:49 AM   #473
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Zimmerman's car is parked on the street, just to the left of the "S" in "Shooting." According to his testimony, Martin went behind the houses where there was only a walkway between the houses, and no street. He couldn't drive back there. He lost sight of Martin at that time and got out of the car to see where he'd gone.
Then he should have stayed in the car. Getting out the car created a dangerous situation. It was his choice to do so and it made the end-result entirely avoidable. That's not self-defense. Period.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:50 AM   #474
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So his actions are justified because of the very remote chance that Martin was about to break into a home and commit murder? Okay. We don't even know for sure that Martin was really doing anything suspicious. That's Zimmerman's story. There's plenty of reason to doubt his word.
And there's plenty of reasonable doubt that Zimmerman maliciously killed Martin
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:54 AM   #475
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And there's plenty of reasonable doubt that Zimmerman maliciously killed Martin
I agree it wasn't malicious (i.e. 2nd degree murder). My argument is that it is voluntary manslaughter (see definition above), not true self-defense.
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