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Old 06-18-2013, 06:46 PM   #1
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Default Broncos players need to execute......so Fox doesn't have to

Thinking back to end of last year obviously, as well as looking at Fox teams in previous years, I hope the one thing our players really take to heart this year is, execute beyond good. Be great. Be a TD at minimum better then the other team. Don't put the game in the hands of Fox. I'm not saying last year was his fault and I'm not saying he's got a bad coaching style. In fact I think he's a solid HC. But, with that said, I hope we don't end up in games where it comes down to the wire.......and we have to watch the Broncos go in ultra conservative mode. To win it all, you gotta have guts. You gotta be willing to take that risk. Playing it safe, IMO, is pretty much the same as being predictable. Which isn't the way to win. So I'm shouting out to all those Broncos players. Step up, get a lead and don't look back. Don't let the game get close because I'm not confident Fox ball will win a tight game, no matter who we have at QB.


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Old 06-18-2013, 07:12 PM   #2
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Well just ask yourself if you would like to see Fox across the field from Shanahan late in the fourth quarter with the score tied in an important game and you will have your answer.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:15 PM   #3
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i think that's a little harsh on Fox. i'm not keen on the conservative mode he goes in at times but he is a heck of a coach and wins games.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:22 PM   #4
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Don't let the game get close because I'm not confident Fox ball will win a tight game, no matter who we have at QB.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:23 PM   #5
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i think that's a little harsh on Fox. i'm not keen on the conservative mode he goes in at times but he is a heck of a coach and wins games.
Yes but let's for a second just remove all the games that are not close in the end. Nobody is saying Fox isn't a good coach. Just questioning more so how good is it to really get super conservative at the end of a game versus playing a style that is a tad more normal to aggressive. I'm not saying if the score is tied after you just scored a TD with a second left, do you go for the 2 point conversion vs a PAT. Yes, that's the exact opposite. That's ultra aggressive. I'm not suggesting we go that route either. I'm just saying, I think you try and throw a pass on 1st down, or you run a reverse. Just not hand off up the middle 3 times trying to wind the clock down when you know if you don't get a 1st down they will get the ball back. I think you play the game as if it were the 1st quarter. I remember that huge 3rd down the Broncos had against the Steelers on the road in 97. They didn't just run the ball, Elway made a risky pass to Sharp, and it paid off. I just don't think I could take another scenario where it's down to 2 minutes left in the game and we've got a 2 point lead, the other team has a few time outs left, and we just run the ball, run the ball, run the ball and punt. Just too conservative in my book.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:26 PM   #6
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Not really the same thing. That's OT, the first play of OT. Lots of time on the clock. I'm talking about late in the game, you're up by less then a FG, you need a few first downs to secure the game. Do you just run run run punt? Or do you try at least a few plays where you might throw a quick slant, maybe a reverse, maybe a WR screen. Something that has a high percentage of the pass being completed.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:49 PM   #7
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Can you really look at the changes we have made to this team and not think we are planning a "more aggressive" offense? Gase, Welker, Ball, And Vasquez come to the top of my mind. Most teams in the nfl would be incredibly energized to get that many potential difference makers in one offseason.

Honestly, if we don't get even better on offense, I am going to have a hard time blaming it on Fox. This offense is flat out loaded with explosive talent. If we don't end up as a top 3 offense, it will be an absolute cluster ****.

The other side of the coin is that it looks like our additional talent will allow us to play better - just given the new players. Nothing wrong with calling power running plays if we now have the guards and RB to pull it off. Great teams can (and do) run the ball on third and short. We might just now have the pieces to do that.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:50 PM   #8
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Not really the same thing. That's OT, the first play of OT. Lots of time on the clock. I'm talking about late in the game, you're up by less then a FG, you need a few first downs to secure the game. Do you just run run run punt? Or do you try at least a few plays where you might throw a quick slant, maybe a reverse, maybe a WR screen. Something that has a high percentage of the pass being completed.
Depends on how Ball is doing. If we have their defense worn out and can pick up 4-6 yards per carry I'd run the hell out of it.

But like I said I'm still not mad about him running it on 3rd and 7. In fact you could look up the gameday thread where I was screaming for him to run it on 3rd and 7. I trusted the defense since we were giving them the ball back with 1st and 77, and 69 seconds to go with 0 timeouts.

****ing Rahim Moore. I would question his sanity if he ever put that ****ing clown back in there in that situation though.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:52 PM   #9
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Not really the same thing. That's OT, the first play of OT. Lots of time on the clock. I'm talking about late in the game, you're up by less then a FG, you need a few first downs to secure the game.
Was the Steelers playoff game the only Tebow one you watched?
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:54 PM   #10
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Maybe the offense should put teams away early so as not to put the game into Manning's hand.

Of course we are only talkign about playoffs. Denver will be fine in the regular season but can they win three games when the playoffs roll around.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:56 PM   #11
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Well just ask yourself if you would like to see Fox across the field from Shanahan late in the fourth quarter with the score tied in an important game and you will have your answer.
We'd be fixin to get beat.


Seriously....I hate the conservapussery that shows up from time to time. You have to at least mix it up sometimes. Be a little bit unpredictable in the close call situations.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:59 PM   #12
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Yes but let's for a second just remove all the games that are not close in the end. Nobody is saying Fox isn't a good coach. Just questioning more so how good is it to really get super conservative at the end of a game versus playing a style that is a tad more normal to aggressive. I'm not saying if the score is tied after you just scored a TD with a second left, do you go for the 2 point conversion vs a PAT. Yes, that's the exact opposite. That's ultra aggressive. I'm not suggesting we go that route either. I'm just saying, I think you try and throw a pass on 1st down, or you run a reverse. Just not hand off up the middle 3 times trying to wind the clock down when you know if you don't get a 1st down they will get the ball back. I think you play the game as if it were the 1st quarter. I remember that huge 3rd down the Broncos had against the Steelers on the road in 97. They didn't just run the ball, Elway made a risky pass to Sharp, and it paid off. I just don't think I could take another scenario where it's down to 2 minutes left in the game and we've got a 2 point lead, the other team has a few time outs left, and we just run the ball, run the ball, run the ball and punt. Just too conservative in my book.
i don't like it either but it's like a prevent defense. a lot of times it works and works well but when it doesn't it's ugly and you have to explain a lot. me personally i feel you should keep your foot on the gas and blow the team out or finish them off instead of protecting the lead.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:59 PM   #13
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Thinking back to end of last year obviously, as well as looking at Fox teams in previous years, I hope the one thing our players really take to heart this year is, execute beyond good. Be great. Be a TD at minimum better then the other team. Don't put the game in the hands of Fox. I'm not saying last year was his fault and I'm not saying he's got a bad coaching style. In fact I think he's a solid HC. But, with that said, I hope we don't end up in games where it comes down to the wire.......and we have to watch the Broncos go in ultra conservative mode. To win it all, you gotta have guts. You gotta be willing to take that risk. Playing it safe, IMO, is pretty much the same as being predictable. Which isn't the way to win. So I'm shouting out to all those Broncos players. Step up, get a lead and don't look back. Don't let the game get close because I'm not confident Fox ball will win a tight game, no matter who we have at QB.


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Your avatar is annoying. Other than that, well, dunno because I pass right on by your posts because your avatar is so annoying.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #14
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i don't put blame on Fox at all for that game. McCoy all year was a **** play-caller. if Gase has any intelligence at all he will be an improvement. Add in a 1st down machine, improvement along the line from personnel and scheme, another year of rehab and experience with Peyton and a massive improvement in the running game and this offense has a chance to be historic.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:27 PM   #15
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I'm kind of hopeful with the talk of how the offense is going to be faster and more aggressive that the conservatism will not be as much of a factor. I'll probably be disappointed in the end, but right now I'm choosing to be hopeful.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #16
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Was the Steelers playoff game the only Tebow one you watched?
Obviously no. But that wasn't so much as not being conservative as it was Tebow many times just turning broken plays into game winners.

And I don't care how improved our team is. When the world KNOWS you're going to run on 3rd and long, it's usually not a good chance you will pick up that first down up. I'm just saying, give yourself a REAL chance to get the 1st down. Throw a safe pass. If it's not their incomplete, they gain some seconds with the ball stopped. Not only that, you have the chance to get a PI call that could give you a first down as well. I just like having the offense trying to control the game instead of essentially just giving away 3rd down and putting your defense on the field. As we saw, quirky things can happen.

And I absolutely hated the "we were shocked" attitude. Maybe Fox was shocked. He doesn't know what each guy out there is thinking. From my own experiences in sports, when I was in a situation like that I didn't think to myself, boy I need a minute to regroup. I was thinking, Fuc, we need to get this and right now. Screw that shell shock crap. Go right back at their MF asses. And with the rules today, you have the advantage on offense in many ways. Not to mention you have PM. We also had a very good long distance kicker. I say you man up and at least attempt to go for the win with time still left on the clock. I know I know, the players still have to go out there and execute. But that super conservative style there at the end, I think that carries over to the players and it doesn't send a good message.

We'll give Fox the benefit of the doubt 1 time. If something like that were to happen again this year, I'm not so sure Elway would have the coaches back.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:48 AM   #17
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Obviously no. But that wasn't so much as not being conservative as it was Tebow many times just turning broken plays into game winners.
I think you're confused. I was in no way implying that Fox became aggressive toward the end of games with Tebow that year; I was saying just the opposite.

Tebow's deficiencies as a passer obviously hamstrung Fox's ability to get too crazy with the offense, but Denver's success that season was a direct result of his (and McCoy's) conservative game management and playcalling. In a way I think that may have worked against us, as it might have reinforced some of those tendencies which were probably unnecessary with Manning at the helm, but this whole topic and conversation and argument is so old and hashed over by now that it's a little boring.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #18
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I can't believe we're talking about this again. Its just a lot of monday morning quarterbacking. If you recall, the Broncos win chance the moment before Flacco took the snap on the Rahim Hail Mary was 97.2 percent. I'll take those odds. It didnt work out, so be it, but this was not some huge coaching error.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:10 AM   #19
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Here's something: Let's just let Manning call the plays.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:13 AM   #20
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Or at least give him complete control to change the play if he wants to. Honestly, you're telling me John fricking Fox knows more about offensive excellence than PMFM? Gase? No. No No No. Peyton could retire from football today and have an NFL offensive coordinator position tomorrow if he wanted it. I understand power and hierarchies and all that nonsense but you must let Peyton be Peyton. He will take us to the promised land.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:23 AM   #21
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Or at least give him complete control to change the play if he wants to. Honestly, you're telling me John fricking Fox knows more about offensive excellence than PMFM? Gase? No. No No No. Peyton could retire from football today and have an NFL offensive coordinator position tomorrow if he wanted it. I understand power and hierarchies and all that nonsense but you must let Peyton be Peyton. He will take us to the promised land.
Manning can change ANY play he wants to.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #22
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score more points than the other team!
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:55 AM   #23
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We'd be fixin to get beat.


Seriously....I hate the conservapussery that shows up from time to time. You have to at least mix it up sometimes. Be a little bit unpredictable in the close call situations.
I will highlight this word every time i see it... just for its sheer brilliance.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:26 AM   #24
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You have to coach differently in the playoffs than you do in the regular season. Playing regular season safe percentages in a playoff game can hurt the team. I think fox is/has been a great coach but he does sometimes shrink at the wrong times.
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