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Old 06-09-2013, 04:05 PM   #1
mhgaffney
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Default Big Brother is watching you (and listening, and gathering and storing data, etc)

Paranoid delusions?

Oh were that the case. No, it's the regrettable reality.

Still don't believe it? Check this out.
MHG

Top NSA Whistleblower Spills the Beans on the Real Scope of the Spying Program

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle35212.htm
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:11 PM   #2
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Guess what? Two Israeli firms are helping the NSA to do it.

Oh and btw, the two firms use proprietary software that almost certainly has back door to the Mossad.

MHG

What was the Israeli Involvement in Collecting U.S. Communications Intel for NSA?

for the links go to
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle35215.htm

Israeli high-tech firms Verint and Narus have had connections with U.S. companies and Israeli intelligence in the past, and ties between the countries' intelligence agencies remain strong.

By Haaretz, The Associated Press and Reuters

June 08, 2013 "Information Clearing House - "Haaretz" - Were Israeli companies Verint and Narus the ones that collected information from the U.S. communications network for the National Security Agency?

The question arises amid controversy over revelations that the NSA has been collecting the phone records of hundreds of millions of Americans every day, creating a database through which it can learn whether terror suspects have been in contact with people in the United States. It also was disclosed this week that the NSA has been gathering all internet usage - audio, video, photographs, emails and searches - from nine major U.S. Internet providers, including Microsoft and Google, in hopes of detecting suspicious behavior that begins overseas.

According to an article in the American technology magazine "Wired" from April 2012, two Israeli companies – which the magazine describes as having close connections to the Israeli security community – conduct bugging and wiretapping for the NSA.

Verint, which took over its parent company Comverse Technology earlier this year, is responsible for tapping the communication lines of the American telephone giant Verizon, according to a past Verizon employee sited by James Bamford in Wired. Neither Verint nor Verizon commented on the matter.

Natus, which was acquired in 2010 by the American company Boeing, supplied the software and hardware used at AT&T wiretapping rooms, according to whistleblower Mark Klein, who revealed the information in 2004. Klein, a past technician at AT&T who filed a suit against the company for spying on its customers, revealed a "secret room" in the company's San Fransisco office, where the NSA collected data on American citizens' telephone calls and Internet surfing.

Klein's claims were reinforced by former NSA employee Thomas Drake who testified that the agency uses a program produced by Narus to save the personal electrical communications of AT&T customers.

Both Verint and Narus have ties to the Israeli intelligence agency and the Israel Defense Forces intelligence-gathering unit 8200. Hanan Gefen, a former commander of the 8200 unit, told Forbes magazine in 2007 that Comverse's technology, which was formerly the parent company of Verint and merged with it this year, was directly influenced by the technology of 8200. Ori Cohen, one of the founders of Narus, told Fortune magazine in 2001 that his partners had done technology work for the Israeli intelligence.

International intel

The question of whether intelligence communities outside the United States were involved has been raised. According to The Guardian, the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), Britain's intelligence agency, secretly collected intelligence information from the world's largest Internet companies via the American program PRISM. According to a top secret document obtained by The Guardian, GCHQ had access to PRISM since 2010 and it used the information to prepare 197 intelligence reports last year. In a statement to the Guardian, GCHQ, said it "takes its obligations under the law very seriously."

According to The Guardian, details of GCHQ's use of PRISM are set out in a 41-page PowerPoint presentation prepared for senior NSA analysts, and describe a "snooping" operation that gave the NSA and FBI access to the systems of nine Internet giants, including Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo and Skype.

Given the close ties between U.S. and Israeli intelligence, the question arises as to whether Israeli intelligence, including the Mossad, was party to the secret.
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:19 PM   #3
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Dem damned Jews again, right, Herr gaffe?
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:04 PM   #4
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James Bamford (not me) reported on this in his third book about the NSA -- THE SHADOW FACTORY...

Of course, W*gs would prefer that none of us know about it.

MHG
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:24 PM   #5
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James Bamford (not me) reported on this in his third book about the NSA -- THE SHADOW FACTORY...

Of course, W*gs would prefer that none of us know about it.
I want every American to know that the government is spying on us.

Blaming the Jews isn't necessary, but is par for the course for you.

You're so far gone into Naziland that you wreck every post of yours and your own credibility with your hatred of Jews.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:04 PM   #6
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This program certainly has potential for abuse. Whether it will be abused remains to be seen.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:59 AM   #7
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The limited contitutional republic by and for the people is here to serve you, citizen.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:16 AM   #8
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And here I was buying extra storage space for my computer when the government was doing it for me the whole friggin' time...
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:17 AM   #9
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This program certainly has potential for abuse. Whether it will NOT be abused remains to be seen.

Given the track record, I went ahead and FIFY.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:19 AM   #10
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If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear, citizen.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #11
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I want every American to know that the government is spying on us.

Blaming the Jews isn't necessary, but is par for the course for you.

You're so far gone into Naziland that you wreck every post of yours and your own credibility with your hatred of Jews.
The Israeli paper Ha'aretz -- not me -- is asking questions about the role of the Israeli spy firms. I gave the link.

You really are a one trick pony.

MHG
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:08 PM   #12
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and yet millions of americans voluntarily join websites like facebook, where corporations gather their data. Oh noes!
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:05 AM   #13
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Far too many people get their notions of what our government is all about from Hollywood; the paranoid thrilled is a wonderful form of entertainment, but it’s a fantasy. The idea that our government is some sort of conspiracy, that it’s a somehow foreign body intent on robbing us of our freedoms, is corrosive and dangerous to our democracy. This remains, and always will be, an extremely libertarian country; it’s encoded in our DNA. We now face a constant, low-level terrorist threat that needs to be monitored. A great many lives are potentially at stake…and our national security is more important than any marginal–indeed, mythical–rights that we may have conceded in the Patriot Act legislation. In the end, the slippery slope, all or nothing, arguments advanced by extreme civil libertarians bear an uncomfortable resemblance to the slippery slope, all or nothing, arguments advanced by the National Rifle Association.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/10...A+Swampland%29
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #14
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Even if there were never any conspiracy anywhere ever, building and housing a superdatabase of everyone's personal and legally private information for the reference of a bunch of federally-employed and/or contracted bumble****s is anything but a good idea.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:31 AM   #15
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Here's what I wonder: Is the threat worth the risk? Can a terrorist act bring down our country? Of course not. What is the status of the terrorist threat at this point in time? We've taken down the majority of big Al Queda operators over the last ten years. They seem to be reduced to small scale, limited actor eruptions like the Boston bombing. What's more dangerous, a bomb in a railway station, a shooting in a mall, a plane being crashed, or a massive, trillion dollar military industrial complex having control of an enormous, combined corporate/government/military/spy agency surveillance apparatus?

Like I say, once the apparatus is in place it's only the mere flipping of a switch to turn the emphasis in another direction. Or perhaps, simply redefine the meaning of the word, "Terrorist?" This whole "Security in exchange for liberty" argument has a unique smell to it. I'm surprised Klein is making it. Perhaps he has spent too much time in Washington?
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #16
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We are recording your every bit, citizen. This is for your protection against people like those guys who bombed the marathon a couple of years after the Russians warned us about them.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:59 AM   #17
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Even if there were never any conspiracy anywhere ever, building and housing a superdatabase of everyone's personal and legally private information for the reference of a bunch of federally-employed and/or contracted bumble****s is anything but a good idea.
I certainly understand the hesitation. But come on, corporations have been doing this for years. People willingly give companies their personal info in various ways every day. Big employers spy on their employees. Now we're surprised and outraged that the NSA is doing it? And they're not reading our emails. They're just getting scanned/filtered. Personally I'm not all that concerned about it and think it's well worth the small "invasion of privacy". But there's no conspiracy here.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:16 PM   #18
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I certainly understand the hesitation. But come on, corporations have been doing this for years. People willingly give companies their personal info in various ways every day. Big employers spy on their employees. Now we're surprised and outraged that the NSA is doing it? And they're not reading our emails. They're just getting scanned/filtered. Personally I'm not all that concerned about it and think it's well worth the small "invasion of privacy". But there's no conspiracy here.
There's a principled reason to oppose any of this, Tony. But also a practical one that you've already forgotten (since the days when you rightfully regarded this sort of thing as "appalling")

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpos...23&postcount=1

The weapons you give to your political friends will eventually be wielded by your political enemies. Neither side needs to know what you believe, where you live, and how long it's been since you've been audited.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #19
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There's a principled reason to oppose any of this, Tony.
Again, I understand "opposition". But I don't fully understand the surprise and outrage, other than perhaps the partisan nature of it. Did you really think our intelligence agencies weren't doing this?
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:25 PM   #20
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Again, I understand "opposition". But I don't fully understand the surprise and outrage, other than perhaps the partisan nature of it. Did you really think our intelligence agencies weren't doing this?
Really? You went from "appalling" even before any of these even dirtier details came out

to

"Personally I'm not all that concerned about it and think it's well worth the small "invasion of privacy"

That's a shocking amount of partisan ball gargling. We need to break out of this.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:32 PM   #21
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Really? You went from "appalling" even before any of these even dirtier details came out...
You're cherry picking just a little bit here, don't you think? Do I need to explain or are we going to have to bore everyone with an elongated argument that will have no conclusion?
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:47 PM   #22
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You're cherry picking just a little bit here, don't you think? Do I need to explain or are we going to have to bore everyone with an elongated argument that will have no conclusion?
Guess you're going to tell me that you meant everything OTHER THAN the warrantless wiretapping stuff you copied and pasted was appalling. That part about surveillance you meant to call a totally-worth-it-small-invasion-of-privacy, but you just forgot.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:34 PM   #23
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Guess you're going to tell me that you meant everything OTHER THAN the warrantless wiretapping stuff you copied and pasted was appalling. That part about surveillance you meant to call a totally-worth-it-small-invasion-of-privacy, but you just forgot.
It's a bit more nuanced than that, but of course you don't deal in nuance but instead love to ladle on the generalities (particularly when you feel they support your viewpoint).

This is a "civil liberties" issue, just not one that I'm specifically up in arms about. That post showed the totality of Gingrich's civil liberties stances, not just one issue. It's clear which way he always leans. It's not clear what you're so concerned about.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:54 PM   #24
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It's a bit more nuanced than that, but of course you don't deal in nuance but instead love to ladle on the generalities (particularly when you feel they support your viewpoint).

This is a "civil liberties" issue, just not one that I'm specifically up in arms about. That post showed the totality of Gingrich's civil liberties stances, not just one issue. It's clear which way he always leans. It's not clear what you're so concerned about.
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And no matter how hard the Obama administration tried to be corrupt they'd never top the fraudulent rush to war in Iraq and the ensuing torture regime and assault on civil liberties and the constitution orchestrated by the Bush administration. Get real.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:43 AM   #25
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Free Obama phone comes with lifetime NSA wiretap service.
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