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Old 06-08-2013, 11:12 PM   #76
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Dude, he threw coffee in your face and laughed while you sat there. That happens to me and someone is going to die. It could be me that dies... but one of us has to go after that.
You say that like you know the situation. We were both on mess duty after having already gotten in trouble for fighting. One day I came into work after rolling out of bed and my hair was sort of flat on top, and a kid called me Butters. I punched him in the face... and got mess duty in exchange for my Chief not reporting it. Tysdal (the former seal) had fought in his respective division. He was pissed that he got relegated to ship duty after blowing out his knee, and was trying to find a way out. I shrugged it off. I wasn't about to lose my GI Bill scholarship over a cup of coffee. We actually became good friends. There were other situations at the base bar where I had wrestled him down after he was trying to bait some Army-types. I could have reported him, which at that point in his disciplinary history, would have gotten him an OTH - lost out on college, and a lot of employers won't hire people with an OTH on their record. I pulled him aside and told him that... and my bud Brock had my back if it would have escalated. Later that night in the parking lot he brought up how I handled the situation and he said, - and I quote - "I just got mad respect for you, bro." I been bloodied up in some hockey fights, too.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:16 PM   #77
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You say that like you know the situation. We were both on mess duty after having already gotten in trouble for fighting. One day I came into work after rolling out of bed and my hair was sort of flat on top, and a kid called me Butters. I punched him in the face... and got mess duty in exchange for my Chief not reporting it. Tysdal (the former seal) had fought in his respective division. He was pissed that he got relegated to ship duty after blowing out his knee, and was trying to find a way out. I shrugged it off. I wasn't about to lose my GI Bill scholarship over a cup of coffee. We actually became good friends. There were other situations at the base bar where I had wrestled him down after he was trying to bait some Army-types. I could have reported him, which at that point in his disciplinary history, would have gotten him an OTH - lost out on college, and a lot of employers won't hire people with an OTH on their record. I pulled him aside and told him that... and my bud Brock had my back if it would have escalated. Later that night in the parking lot he brought up how I handled the situation and he said, - and I quote - "I just got mad respect for you, bro." I been bloodied up in some hockey fights, too.

Sounds legit.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:17 PM   #78
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Sounds legit.
It is.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:53 PM   #79
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Sounds legit.
And that guy went on to be Kate Upton's second cousin...
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:03 AM   #80
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One day I came into work after rolling out of bed and my hair was sort of flat on top, and a kid called me Butters. I punched him in the face...
so you're an idiot?
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:10 AM   #81
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:59 AM   #82
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I tend to agree that I don't think they're mentally healthy. They seem to have a hard time of it no matter what they decide to do. Gender identity is a very interesting thing. I don't agree in cookie cutter definitions of either, because people can choose to live as they want, but I also don't believe a man cutting off his penis, growing his hair out and taking hormone pills makes him a woman.

Even after transition they don't quite fit in either mold. If that's society's "problem" or not, I personally think that self identity and self worth shouldn't derive from a surgery. And I agree with the sentiment that expecting a surgery to do so is a tall order.

And before some of you call me a bigot, I'd be giving this advice to anyone looking at surgery, from a mole removal to a sex change.
This is not entirely directed at you Khan, but I'm using your quote as kind of a jumping point. More of a statement in regards to the thread.

The reason they do it is so they can pass in society and for safety. Others do it for those reasons and so they can feel more feminine. That's about it. Obviously they aren't a genetic "woman" by definition. That's all it is though a definition. If the person acts like one, looks like one, is treated like one, etc, then they are what they wanted to be. The whole removing the penis thing is often because they want to "be" a women and nothing visually describes being a woman more than having breasts and a vagina. They also want to have sex as a women. Kind of difficult to do with a dick.



http://officialmissmadisonnichole.tumblr.com/

^ that "chick" was born a man.

I highly doubt anyone would come to that conclusion if you saw this person walking around IRL. She's also had a ton of facial plastic surgery and started hormones early. Probably between the ages of 12-19. I'm guessing younger (12-14) due to the placement of her pelvic bone and her general height, but genetics is a factor as well.

People like this SEAL (mid 40's) are usually ****ed when it comes to passing until they get much older because that's when both genders kind of cross a bit due to males dropping in testosterone and females dropping in estrogen. If you're in your mid 30's or later you often end up looking like Brady Quinn in drag because the further away from puberty you are the more "damage" is done by testosterone.

I know a lot about transgender stuff, so when people compare this to anorexia and ****, they're clueless. It's literally a problem with the wiring in brain and there isn't **** you can do to fix it. Absolutely nothing you can do. Even if you legitimately want it to go away, good luck. Nothing you do is going to rewire having a feminine brain process. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how aware or in tune you are to reality. Anorexia is at least treatable.

You either live your life as your assigned gender or you make a switch. It is totally and completely incurable with modern technology. It is however something you can simply hide. A lot of guys do this SEAL's rout of hyper masculinity to mask it. Military, bodybuilding, etc. They get married and have kids in order to create distractions of being normal. Sometimes finding someone you love and kids can be enough to keep it at bay for good. Others can't keep it away for their whole life, and those are the ones that turn into Kristen here.

Most people think this is some sick fantasy people have. I'm sure for SOME it is. There's sickos for everything these days. However, that's not the majority. They have simply felt out of place their whole lives. Fifty percent (yes, 50%) of all self-identified transgendered individuals have attempted or successfully committed suicide. So when I hear people saying **** like "surgeries only serve to feed peoples' delusions," I facepalm because they have absolutely no clue what the **** they're talking about. It has nothing to do with being delusional. There is no delusion.

If you were born seeing the color yellow where things are blue, that's what it is. Just because almost the entire world see's blue and it's always yellow for you doesn't mean you're delusional. You can't control it. It's yellow. You can try your damnedest to imagine it's blue. You can even just pretend it's blue; but whenever you open your eyes it's still going to be yellow.

This isn't something any normal person could comprehend. It's like the South Park episode, "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson," aka "The N Word" episode.

At the end of the episode Stan said, "I get it!... I don't get it," because he could never understand what the word meant to a black person. That's how it is. It's something people will never actually "get."

Here's some cool info for the thread. Might shed a little insight into why I'm talking the way I am and know what I know. I happen to be transgendered. I've known I was different since I was a kid. I used to play with the girls in elementary school and started getting picked on and beat up because of it. I even had to switch schools due to this. My parents had no clue why I was actually picked on. They just assumed it was unfortunate luck with being the target of some bullies. Then I started to play with the boys from then on out to fit in.

I've seen a shrink, taken the S.A.G.E. test, etc. I know the reality of what I am. I'm also a very smart person. Did superb in school, etc. I can't out think it though. I've tried to rationalize it and "inceptionize" myself. I've simply opted to stay a man. My username is actually a joke to myself. Fortunately for me, I happen to be sexually attracted to women. If I was a "gay male," I'd probably have transitioned in my teens. No doubt about that. I'd give anything to be normal, but I'm stuck with the cards I was dealt. It's like X-Men. Not wanting to be a mutant. A "freak" of nature. An unintended abnormality. I just deal with it by accepting it's part of me but not letting it define me. That's all you really can do.

So yeah. For the people posting about their thoughts, it's cool most of you have uniformed ideas and stances, and you're free to have them. Just try to be better about assuming things you can't truly comprehend.

lol
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:33 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Swedish Extrovert View Post
You say that like you know the situation. We were both on mess duty after having already gotten in trouble for fighting. One day I came into work after rolling out of bed and my hair was sort of flat on top, and a kid called me Butters. I punched him in the face... and got mess duty in exchange for my Chief not reporting it. Tysdal (the former seal) had fought in his respective division. He was pissed that he got relegated to ship duty after blowing out his knee, and was trying to find a way out. I shrugged it off. I wasn't about to lose my GI Bill scholarship over a cup of coffee. We actually became good friends. There were other situations at the base bar where I had wrestled him down after he was trying to bait some Army-types. I could have reported him, which at that point in his disciplinary history, would have gotten him an OTH - lost out on college, and a lot of employers won't hire people with an OTH on their record. I pulled him aside and told him that... and my bud Brock had my back if it would have escalated. Later that night in the parking lot he brought up how I handled the situation and he said, - and I quote - "I just got mad respect for you, bro." I been bloodied up in some hockey fights, too.
Cool story, bro.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:33 AM   #84
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what a fag
That fag would no doubt be able to kick your ass
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #85
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And before some of you call me a bigot, I'd be giving this advice to anyone looking at surgery, from a mole removal to a sex change.
That's a bit extreme. I would have no problems with somebody that had burns or scars on their face that wanted to get cosmetic surgery to improve their image. Like it or not we are a social animal and image is important to us. Of course some people take it well beyond what would be considered by most as a normal level.

And for people wanting surgery for sex identity, I just can't comment on that. I don't live inside their brain. I don't know how bad their internal struggle is. It could be so bad that they really feel they need it. If they can afford it, I don't see what the problem is. I get what you're saying though, that self worth should not be so closely tied with image but it is. Try to imagine for 1 second that you, Kaylore, were a burn victim and you could barely recognize yourself in the mirror. Would you be so quick now to judge others on wanting to look a certain way?
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:45 PM   #86
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Still a weirdo. I watched a documentary on transgender and seems even when they become a "women" they still are with a women (not sure of % just from this doc). That just seems to want to be the exact opposite twice (or for the first time) of what human nature is of being attracted to the opposite sex. It was almost like the guy felt like a women but wants to be a lipstick lesbian. I felt some of them were confused but the conclusion was a complete 180 of what I thought would make them feel "normal".

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Old 06-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #87
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and I'm pretty sure uber just dropped the final word on this one
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:20 PM   #88
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live and let live I say. To each their own. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:32 PM   #89
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live and let live I say. To each their own. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.
Who do you have as your avatar?

It's really hard to focus on your post with an ass like that staring me in the face.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:43 PM   #90
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Who do you have as your avatar?

It's really hard to focus on your post with an ass like that staring me in the face.
That's Blart.

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Old 06-09-2013, 05:01 PM   #91
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I know a lot about transgender stuff, so when people compare this to anorexia and ****, they're clueless. It's literally a problem with the wiring in brain and there isn't **** you can do to fix it. Absolutely nothing you can do. Even if you legitimately want it to go away, good luck. Nothing you do is going to rewire having a feminine brain process. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how aware or in tune you are to reality. Anorexia is at least treatable.
You are painting with some broad strokes there. If a person really does have brain chemistry/hormonal reasons that lead them towards identifying as a different gender I would agree that no amount of therapy is going to help, but where is the evidence that most if not all of transgender individuals fall into that category? Psychological issues can be very difficult to deal with and can often feel inherent to one's personal makeup, but just because they feel so doesn't make it so.

By the way, do you actually "know" that your brain chemistry is different (via scientific testing) or is that just a feeling?
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:14 PM   #92
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Nature makes mistakes. And then again, maybe it's not a mistake. I'm into reef tanks. You'd be surprised how many creatures in the sea switch back and forth. These beautiful little fish known as anthias usually travel in harems, one male to many females. If the male dies, the dominant female becomes a male. Clownfishes (remember Nemo) are all born male. Then, a dominant male in a group will change to female. If he dies, another will take his place. Even their color and sexual organs will change.

I guess psychology is trapped in culture, not nature.

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Old 06-09-2013, 06:30 PM   #93
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You are painting with some broad strokes there. If a person really does have brain chemistry/hormonal reasons that lead them towards identifying as a different gender I would agree that no amount of therapy is going to help, but where is the evidence that most if not all of transgender individuals fall into that category? Psychological issues can be very difficult to deal with and can often feel inherent to one's personal makeup, but just because they feel so doesn't make it so.

By the way, do you actually "know" that your brain chemistry is different (via scientific testing) or is that just a feeling?
The only time I could really agree that there is a psychological issue is if it's a spontaneous thing. As in someone all of a sudden wants to be a women after years of being a guy and perfectly fine with it. Something like a PTSD. That or there was serious trauma like sexual abuse and stuff like that. Sometimes that can make someone act a certain way or want certain things. Those would be psychological.

I'd put those in the minority. I'm certain they exist. Again though, not the majority. I and most others knew something was up when we could rationalize it as children. We were kids. We didn't really have an amazing breadth of knowledge. We didn't know the implications of gender roles in society. I learned just how much it mattered when I was ganged up on in 1st grade. I tried to act as much like a boy as possible though because I wanted to please my parents. I could differentiate what was obviously right and wrong. I had a penis so I was a guy, etc. But I wanted to watch My Little Pony...lulz. I ended up getting to like TMNT instead.

I'd place being transgendered in a similar boat as someone with say...Tourette syndrome. It's just part of your brain makeup. You have ticks with Tourette syndrome, you desire to be a girl or boy as a transgendered individual.

There's claims stuff like Finasteride (Propecia) can alter brain chemistry to make guys think feminine, but I've not seen any hard evidence on it. It IS possible to change ones sexual preference with hormonal treatment, but it's one of those possible type things. Could happen, or couldn't. My understanding is that most guys who transition that weren't gay either stay "straight" I guess lesbian, or become bi.

Some people are also born with an extra X chromosome. It's called Klinefelter syndrome. This is also a debatable subject. It's argued having the extra X can lead to being transgendered. Again, up in the air at the moment. There are known transgendered people with it though and it's not very common. Maybe 1 - 750 males have it.

I had an MRI scan when I was in my late teens but did not ask for them to check for signs of being transgendered as my parents would have found out. Frankly I'm not even sure transgender issues related to the brain were even really studied back then. Men use their brain differently from women though, so I'm sure if I really wanted I could get a test, but I don't feel the need.

As I've said, I've opted to stay a guy. My job requires me to be on camera from time to time and to talk and stuff. Being transgendered is still not a publicly accepted thing. Will probably be 30 - 40 years until that changes enough. I'd rather not derail the one life I have and I don't have the desire nor the balls to transition at an older age. Personally, I have no idea how anyone can handle transitioning once they get into their thirties, let alone their forties or fifties. I'll just stick it out like I have and be fine. Like I said, I won't let it define me. Since I like girls, I'm hoping I'll eventually find one to live out the rest of my days with and that will be fine. She can be the girl for me.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #94
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The only time I could really agree that there is a psychological issue is if it's a spontaneous thing. As in someone all of a sudden wants to be a women after years of being a guy and perfectly fine with it. Something like a PTSD. That or there was serious trauma like sexual abuse and stuff like that. Sometimes that can make someone act a certain way or want certain things. Those would be psychological.

I'd put those in the minority. I'm certain they exist. Again though, not the majority. I and most others knew something was up when we could rationalize it as children. We were kids. We didn't really have an amazing breadth of knowledge. We didn't know the implications of gender roles in society. I learned just how much it mattered when I was ganged up on in 1st grade. I tried to act as much like a boy as possible though because I wanted to please my parents. I could differentiate what was obviously right and wrong. I had a penis so I was a guy, etc. But I wanted to watch My Little Pony...lulz. I ended up getting to like TMNT instead.

I'd place being transgendered in a similar boat as someone with say...Tourette syndrome. It's just part of your brain makeup. You have ticks with Tourette syndrome, you desire to be a girl or boy as a transgendered individual.

There's claims stuff like Finasteride (Propecia) can alter brain chemistry to make guys think feminine, but I've not seen any hard evidence on it. It IS possible to change ones sexual preference with hormonal treatment, but it's one of those possible type things. Could happen, or couldn't. My understanding is that most guys who transition that weren't gay either stay "straight" I guess lesbian, or become bi.

Some people are also born with an extra X chromosome. It's called Klinefelter syndrome. This is also a debatable subject. It's argued having the extra X can lead to being transgendered. Again, up in the air at the moment. There are known transgendered people with it though and it's not very common. Maybe 1 - 750 males have it.

I had an MRI scan when I was in my late teens but did not ask for them to check for signs of being transgendered as my parents would have found out. Frankly I'm not even sure transgender issues related to the brain were even really studied back then. Men use their brain differently from women though, so I'm sure if I really wanted I could get a test, but I don't feel the need.

As I've said, I've opted to stay a guy. My job requires me to be on camera from time to time and to talk and stuff. Being transgendered is still not a publicly accepted thing. Will probably be 30 - 40 years until that changes enough. I'd rather not derail the one life I have and I don't have the desire nor the balls to transition at an older age. Personally, I have no idea how anyone can handle transitioning once they get into their thirties, let alone their forties or fifties. I'll just stick it out like I have and be fine. Like I said, I won't let it define me. Since I like girls, I'm hoping I'll eventually find one to live out the rest of my days with and that will be fine. She can be the girl for me.
Curious, do you dress as a woman in the privacy of your own home? I've read about a lot of transgendered people that are as they were born in public but are happiest when they are able to dress as they feel most comfortable when no one is around. I actually even knew a guy that would go out in a different town on the weekends as a woman.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:50 PM   #95
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There have been some studies done over the last few years indicating there's probably some genetic basis for transgenderism. One I recall showed a difference in a part of the genetic code that interacts with testosterone. For transwomen, this part of their code is longer than for men. The scientists believe that longer structure slows or weakens the developing fetus' response to testosterone, so more of that eventual person's brain retains its original female structures. And since all fetuses start off as female, I'm sure you can see what might happen there. That research was done in Australia, in 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7689007.stm

There was another study that came out last summer indicating there's also a "gay gene," which comes from the mother's side. When the gene is present in a biological woman, it makes her more attractive to men, so she's more likely to have more kids. When that gene shows up in a male child, however, that child is more likely to eventually be gay.

http://tinyurl.com/lm894vy

Just on a guess, I'd say it's unlikely for there to be a single genetic cause for being either gay or trans. [shrug] So far there are too many other variables involved to suss one out and say "that's the cause."
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:31 PM   #96
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Curious, do you dress as a woman in the privacy of your own home? I've read about a lot of transgendered people that are as they were born in public but are happiest when they are able to dress as they feel most comfortable when no one is around. I actually even knew a guy that would go out in a different town on the weekends as a woman.
I've never dressed in women's clothes before. A huge amount do. I was interested in trying on girl stuff when I was young. I saw girls with skirts and wanted to wear one, etc. As I grew older I became very uncomfortable with notion of doing it. Now, I simply couldn't do it. I have a guy's body, so putting on women's clothes with a guy's body would feel exactly like that to me. A dude dressed like a girl. It wouldn't make me feel remotely like a woman. I'm actually quite a vain individual. Aesthetics matter to me a lot. I'm probably the minority in the case of not dressing up. I do feel very comfortable when no one is around though. I always locked my door when living at home and it's a habit that hasn't left.

The closest thing to dressing up would be when I pretended I was a girl in an MMO and dressed my female character up and stuff. There was anonymity. I was a "girl" in the game and had a female avatar, so it felt comfortable. Everyone thought I was a girl too. Even had two guys try to come on to me. Quite a common thing to happen to girls in games though. I stopped the girl in an MMO thing after a guy developed a crush and wanted to drive to visit me. I liked this person a lot, but as a friend. So I guess I wanted to friend-zone him, lol. Dropped the game and all contact on the spot and didn't pretend in the next MMO I tried. Haven't since. There are straight guys who pretend to be girls for the "perks," I was just doing it to try and be how I felt. It was a bittersweet experience.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:29 PM   #97
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Uber, you are one confusing "dude". You seemed to be feminine as a child (we had a kid that played on the bars and his friends were girls and yes, he is gay) but you never went through the process of trying to keep with a feminine body or look the part. You also like women. I am confused (as you seem to be) what part of transgender you are if you only feel it but it seems you dont play the part. Do you like chick flicks and cry? You have PMS symptoms? You can't parallel park? Am I missing something here?
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:31 PM   #98
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Also, the Seal member was already retired when we killed Osama but I like the irony of the peace earrings on Kristen.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:05 PM   #99
Agamemnon
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Uber, you are one confusing "dude". You seemed to be feminine as a child (we had a kid that played on the bars and his friends were girls and yes, he is gay) but you never went through the process of trying to keep with a feminine body or look the part. You also like women. I am confused (as you seem to be) what part of transgender you are if you only feel it but it seems you dont play the part. Do you like chick flicks and cry? You have PMS symptoms? You can't parallel park? Am I missing something here?
I think he identifies himself as feminine/female. That doesn't inherently imply an attraction for men or body alteration, though I do agree that it is a bit puzzling.
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:00 AM   #100
SouthStndJunkie
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Also, the Seal member was already retired when we killed Osama but I like the irony of the peace earrings on Kristen.
Maybe Kristen is just trying to tell everyone that she is now a 'peace' of ass.
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