The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-31-2013, 08:51 PM   #51
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 36,850

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncosteven View Post
Gene said the same thing about Apollo 13

- Sy Leibergot didn't save the crew by finding the venting O2

- John Aaron didn't save the crew by working the Capsule power up procedure with Mattingly

- The Tiger team working the CO2 canister issue

- The dudes working the math for the burns

- The fact that the Flight Directors decided on the Free trajectory return

- The team that came up with the LM lifeboat procedure

- The crew that didn't lose their cool and were able to execute major tasks like a burn with no guidance computer with little to no sleep and a dude with a urinary tract infection.

etc...

Gene said it was a total team effort that saved the crew from certain death.
Another little known NASA fact:

When astronauts would switch to a secure line where the public couldn't listen in, it was so they could have a quick, sexy, gay chat with Gene.
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 09:49 PM   #52
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,015

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

we do have a lot of arm chair coaches here who like to bash on Fox.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:04 PM   #53
KipCorrington25
Free Safety
 
KipCorrington25's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Centennial
Posts: 3,561
Default

Damn, he looks like Jay Cutler in his modeling pictures.
KipCorrington25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:05 PM   #54
Bacchus
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

2 years 2 AFC West Championships. Cut the guy some slack.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:41 PM   #55
Dr. Broncenstein
Nacho Nacho Fan
 
Dr. Broncenstein's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sterile Fields
Posts: 13,549

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dookie Nacho
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
2 years 2 AFC West Championships. Cut the guy some slack.
Well one of those seasons he managed to win the division in spite of having a quarterback with an established history of post-season asphyxiation. So, there's that...
Dr. Broncenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:50 PM   #56
Cito Pelon
Attack at all times . . .
 
Cito Pelon's Avatar
 
Not2Shabby County Seat

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AFC Championshipville, NotTooShabby County
Posts: 16,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Slim Shabby
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
I honestly thought the McDaniels era would have given more of an appreciation to Broncos fans regarding a competent head coach, but apparently the overwhelming and unreasonable disdain and lack of appreciation for coaches that became an epidemic at the end of the Shanahan era is harder to clean out than 1 terrible season.

A disturbing amount of you sound like the FireShanahan.com guy.

Get upset at Fox when HE blows the game.
Hey dude, Fox pretty much admitted he blew the game all by himself when he permitted McCoy to go conservative with the run-run-run-run-run-run-run series prior to the Raheeminator.

Fox spends all his time b****ing at the referees, has no idea what the coordinators are doing since he doesn't wear a headset. It's fine he's a delegator and all that, but maybe, just maybe you want a head coach that's engaged on game day. Fox hasn't been extended yet, so I bet for sure Elway is actively looking for his next head coach.
Cito Pelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:53 PM   #57
Bronco Yoda
.
 
Bronco Yoda's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Fox and McCoy didn't lose the playoff game with their conservative play call.

Manning didn't lose the playoff game with his OT interception.

Moore didn't lose the playoff game with his hail mary whiff.

Bailey didn't lose the playoff game with his burnt toast performance.

The refs didn't lose the playoff game with their several huge calls.

The all worked together to lose the game... along with everyone else.
Yes that is all very true. All very obvious stuff. But all these events happened on the field. Some of which were totally out of our control. The other side gets paid to make plays as well. It's all a part of football.

However Coach Fox is in total control of his own decisions. And he's responsible for overseeing everything regardless of how much he decides to delegate. Some of his screw ups were based on his own personal philosophy to which he's come out and said he'd do again. Other screw ups came down to poor overall leadership\oversight in crunch time.

Obviously he didn't lose the game... but his bullshiat sure didn't improve the odds in winning.

I'm holding out hope that he's not as stubborn as he shows. That he can indeed learn from his mistakes and still continue to grow as a coach even at his age and conservative mindset. If so, skies the limit and he'll get my appreciation.

I'm not going to be appreciative simply because he sucks less than the last coach. Last year still stings!!!!!!!!!!!
Bronco Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:54 PM   #58
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 36,850

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Hey dude, Fox pretty much admitted he blew the game all by himself when he permitted McCoy to go conservative with the run-run-run-run-run-run-run series prior to the Raheeminator.

Fox spends all his time b****ing at the referees, has no idea what the coordinators are doing since he doesn't wear a headset. It's fine he's a delegator and all that, but maybe, just maybe you want a head coach that's engaged on game day. Fox hasn't been extended yet, so I bet for sure Elway is actively looking for his next head coach.
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:59 PM   #59
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,650

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Actively searching for a new HC while your team he helped build is SB favorites with a QB that has a couple seasons left period, yeah that is just dumb. Elway would just fire Fox then risk wasting one of Mannings last years.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 11:05 PM   #60
Dr. Broncenstein
Nacho Nacho Fan
 
Dr. Broncenstein's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sterile Fields
Posts: 13,549

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dookie Nacho
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Hey dude, Fox pretty much admitted he blew the game all by himself when he permitted McCoy to go conservative with the run-run-run-run-run-run-run series prior to the Raheeminator.

Fox spends all his time b****ing at the referees, has no idea what the coordinators are doing since he doesn't wear a headset. It's fine he's a delegator and all that, but maybe, just maybe you want a head coach that's engaged on game day. Fox hasn't been extended yet, so I bet for sure Elway is actively looking for his next head coach.
Do you ever get tired of being completely wrong 100% of the time? It's entertaining for sure, but it must be tiring after a while.
Dr. Broncenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 11:28 PM   #61
Cito Pelon
Attack at all times . . .
 
Cito Pelon's Avatar
 
Not2Shabby County Seat

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AFC Championshipville, NotTooShabby County
Posts: 16,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Slim Shabby
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Broncenstein View Post
Do you ever get tired of being completely wrong 100% of the time? It's entertaining for sure, but it must be tiring after a while.
What did I get wrong, genius? Or are you just talking out your ass like you usually do.
Cito Pelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 11:36 PM   #62
Cito Pelon
Attack at all times . . .
 
Cito Pelon's Avatar
 
Not2Shabby County Seat

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AFC Championshipville, NotTooShabby County
Posts: 16,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Slim Shabby
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Actively searching for a new HC while your team he helped build is SB favorites with a QB that has a couple seasons left period, yeah that is just dumb. Elway would just fire Fox then risk wasting one of Mannings last years.
Why hasn't Fox been extended yet? Another genius at work here I see. Elway isn't as dumb as you are. He isn't as blind as you are.
Cito Pelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 06:41 AM   #63
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,015

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
What did I get wrong, genius? Or are you just talking out your ass like you usually do.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 06:56 AM   #64
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,650

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Why hasn't Fox been extended yet? Another genius at work here I see. Elway isn't as dumb as you are. He isn't as blind as you are.
So is Elway going to waste this season then? Fox isn't good enough to win with us according to you. Think about that you **** tard.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 06:58 AM   #65
Dr. Broncenstein
Nacho Nacho Fan
 
Dr. Broncenstein's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sterile Fields
Posts: 13,549

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dookie Nacho
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Why hasn't Fox been extended yet? Another genius at work here I see. Elway isn't as dumb as you are. He isn't as blind as you are.
Holy shiat. You actually believe that Elway is "actively looking" to replace a head coach who turned around a complete disaster into a legitimate Super Bowl contender in two years. Blow the team up and start over again. This is what you actually believe. Of course you do.
Dr. Broncenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 07:07 AM   #66
baja
Elite Sissie
 
baja's Avatar
 
Because

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 59,481

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Cito's Sissies
Default

You are no going to tinker with the head coach position as long as Manning is here but I doubt Bowlen will ever say John Fox is coach of the Broncos for as long as he wants to be.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 07:16 AM   #67
Bacchus
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Hey dude, Fox pretty much admitted he blew the game all by himself when he permitted McCoy to go conservative with the run-run-run-run-run-run-run series prior to the Raheeminator.

Fox spends all his time b****ing at the referees, has no idea what the coordinators are doing since he doesn't wear a headset. It's fine he's a delegator and all that, but maybe, just maybe you want a head coach that's engaged on game day. Fox hasn't been extended yet, so I bet for sure Elway is actively looking for his next head coach.
Maybe he blew the game when he let Manning throw that INT in OT that actually lost the game.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 07:25 AM   #68
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,015

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
You are no going to tinker with the head coach position as long as Manning is here but I doubt Bowlen will ever say John Fox is coach of the Broncos for as long as he wants to be.
after the SB wins, that was the scotch talking...
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 07:41 AM   #69
KCStud
Ring of Famer
 
KCStud's Avatar
 
AmeriStanzi!

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,711

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Fox and McCoy didn't lose the playoff game with their conservative play call.

Manning didn't lose the playoff game with his OT interception.

Moore didn't lose the playoff game with his hail mary whiff.

Bailey didn't lose the playoff game with his burnt toast performance.

The refs didn't lose the playoff game with their several huge calls.

The all worked together to lose the game... along with everyone else.
Fox and Manning deserve more heat for this than the other players. It was known that Fox was a conservative coach when you hired him. He had a reputation for it. Manning had a reputation for choking in the playoffs and not playing well in cold weather.

On the other hand, Champ, Von and the rest of your defense played awful as well, but those guys don't have a track record for playing awful.
KCStud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 07:51 AM   #70
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda View Post
I'm holding out hope that he's not as stubborn as he shows. That he can indeed learn from his mistakes and still continue to grow as a coach even at his age and conservative mindset.
I'm thinking Elway's recent comments about Shanahan are a clear message to Fox on this subject...

Quote:
"The other thing is he was very, very aggressive, and he wanted to win on the offensive and defensive side of the ball. A lot of coaches tried to sit back and win on defense. As a quarterback, why I liked Mike was he wanted to win it on the offensive side. If we needed a first down late in the game, we were going to be aggressive offensively rather than punting and putting the game in the defense's hands. That's something I admired about Mike, and it led to a lot of success when I played with him."
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...-mike-shanahan
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 08:06 AM   #71
Chris
Millenium Scrooge McDuck
 
Chris's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,560

Adopt-a-Bronco:
OrlandoFranklin
Default

His high level of social intelligence and his ability to delegate, knowing his weaknesses is consistent with all those that are born leaders.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 08:17 AM   #72
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 36,850

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
I'm thinking Elway's recent comments about Shanahan are a clear message to Fox on this subject...

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...-mike-shanahan
While that fits the playoff game, it fits the profile even better of someone else.

I think that's a shot at Reeves...
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 09:41 AM   #73
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,069

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncosteven View Post
I am reading a book called "Outliers" by Malcom Gladwell about extra ordinary people and how they got there, mostly he goes on about the 10,000 hour rule but I am at the part where he talks about the difference between people with really high IQ's. Apparently you don't have to great at everything just "good enough" to be successful. By good enough I don't mean stuff anyone could do, I mean good enough to get into med/law school. Sometimes the really smart people don't have the people skills to cope with daily life and be successful.

He goes into detail about a guy with a 195IQ who couldn't finish college because he couldn't figure out how to overcome some life obstacles. He is a smart guy and writing about physics but will never be published because he has no college transcripts. He is in his 50's and does it for fun, I would think he would have found a way to go back and finish his degree and be able to get published but that is the kind of point the author makes.

He went on to compare this guy with Oppenheimer who was younger than Gen. Groves, had no experience running anything and didn't know anything about the machines they were building but he was good at managing people and had the skills to find the right people and put them in a position to succeed.

Sometimes the smartest guy in the room is not the best guy to accomplish a task.
This is a great book, especially if you understand management. There are several others that also help like emotional and social intelligence by Daniel Goleman. Good to Great by Collins as well.

As to your last quote, that is definitely true. Most of the time, the smartest guy in the room may not be the best decision maker or leader. He may be smart, but smart does not mean he is effective. Just like the gentleman you described above he lacked the social and emotional skills to even take care of himself, let alone lead.

Leading a group and being smart are 2 completely different things. Way too often smart guys like McDaniels get a Job over their heads because they were successful in their previous Job, that has a very different skill set. What great organizations are finally figuring out after years of sticking successful people in one position into the next level up, is that success at one skill does not equal potential success at another. Very rarely are top salespeople successful Managers of salespeople. They have tremendous sales skills, but average to mediocre people managing skills. In this example, very rarely do great Coordinators in Football become solid Head coaches, let alone great HC's. They are 2 totally different skill sets. Some of the top HC's in the NFL right now bridge the gap by staying as Coordinators. Sean Payton, Mike Shanahan, and Mike McCarthy keep their edge by running the offense and calling plays and staying in their top skill set while adapting and handling the HC duties. McDaniels failed miserably doing that however, because he really lacked a key ingredient, deliberate practice or experience.

Fox is Solid head coach, but not brilliant by any means. However, he learned that HC's can succeed with a very solid staff making game planning, play calling, and training decisions on their own. What has hurt him, is he can not get over the hump by himself as a leader. He may make it there with this current cast he leads though.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 11:13 AM   #74
schaaf
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Fox is "a guy with a few skins on the wall"
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #75
baja
Elite Sissie
 
baja's Avatar
 
Because

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 59,481

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Cito's Sissies
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
This is a great book, especially if you understand management. There are several others that also help like emotional and social intelligence by Daniel Goleman. Good to Great by Collins as well.

As to your last quote, that is definitely true. Most of the time, the smartest guy in the room may not be the best decision maker or leader. He may be smart, but smart does not mean he is effective. Just like the gentleman you described above he lacked the social and emotional skills to even take care of himself, let alone lead.

Leading a group and being smart are 2 completely different things. Way too often smart guys like McDaniels get a Job over their heads because they were successful in their previous Job, that has a very different skill set. What great organizations are finally figuring out after years of sticking successful people in one position into the next level up, is that success at one skill does not equal potential success at another. Very rarely are top salespeople successful Managers of salespeople. They have tremendous sales skills, but average to mediocre people managing skills. In this example, very rarely do great Coordinators in Football become solid Head coaches, let alone great HC's. They are 2 totally different skill sets. Some of the top HC's in the NFL right now bridge the gap by staying as Coordinators. Sean Payton, Mike Shanahan, and Mike McCarthy keep their edge by running the offense and calling plays and staying in their top skill set while adapting and handling the HC duties. McDaniels failed miserably doing that however, because he really lacked a key ingredient, deliberate practice or experience.

Fox is Solid head coach, but not brilliant by any means. However, he learned that HC's can succeed with a very solid staff making game planning, play calling, and training decisions on their own. What has hurt him, is he can not get over the hump by himself as a leader. He may make it there with this current cast he leads though.
Elway with his acquisitions and hires seems to made a masterful transition from player that had "it" to an executive that has "it". John is really putting his personality stamp on the team. It's beginning to look like just as a player Elway made everyone around him better he is going to make everyone around him better as an executive, mostly the coaches
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:34 AM.


Denver Broncos