ChiefsPlanet: Slumber Party!

[PastorMikH]

Originally Posted by fontaine

What makes you think you're welcome now chef fan?

Taco said so and what he says goes around here!

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

Taco said so and what he says goes around here!

I know, I was just joking. Don't get your Ketchup and Mustard colored knickers in a twist, Pastor.

[PastorMikH]

Originally Posted by fontaine

I know, I was just joking. Don't get your Ketchup and Mustard colored knickers in a twist, Pastor.

It's not mustard, it's GOLD!

[Pezman]

Originally Posted by ndbbm

You can take your condescending attitude and shove it dude. You may also want to know your facts before you assume anything. According to you, because I’m an “IT guy”, I know nothing about business law….That’s brilliant. I also happen to work for the Pennsylvania Board of Law Examiners in an office full of lawyers. It’s still not an infringement.

dude, stick with your avatar and be happy. You sure are cranky without those cha chas dancing in your face....

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Taco John

You really should check with Kyle before you do anything like that... You're treading on some legal waters that are pretty muddy...

I understand your point, but it's a non issue. Unless someone makes it an issue. It comes down to an issue of trust. I trust that Kyle won't take it the wrong way.

If Saul were to ever do anything with his site that Kyle ever objected to, I trust that I would happily remove the pointer, and point it to ChiefsPlanet.com. Hell, if he was at all concerned about what could be done with it, I would happily sign the domain over to Kyle.

You seem to be making a fuss over what could be, at the expense of what is. There's something to be said for making the warning, it's another thing to make a fuss over it.

[Dr. Van Halen]

I think Mr. John is being understandably defensive about this issue because he holds the copyright/trademark for Orange Mane.

To win the case in court against someone with a similar name that is competing you would have to be able to show damages (that their site caused you to lose money). I assume that you don't make a profit off of this site, so I'm not sure how well you would do in court. (Being able to show actual damages is part of the multi-prong test for copyright violation.)(Copyright Act of 1972)

However, there is nothing you could do to stop someone from setting up a site called Orange Mane2 or something similar if the site was created to make fun of your site. Parody is protected speech thanks to the Supreme Court voting in favor of Luther Campbell of 2 Live Crew in one of the more amusing court cases in recent times.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by jAZ

You seem to be making a fuss over what could be, at the expense of what is. There's something to be said for making the warning, it's another thing to make a fuss over it.

Justin, for as bright a guy as you are, you're not a very bright guy sometimes... Of course this is about "what could be." That's the whole point.

Let me underline that it was incredibly stupid and rude of you to register a ChiefsPlanet domain without first checking with Kyle because of what could be. You have no idea of Kyle's plans for Chiefs Planet, nor any idea of the implications that go along with infringing on Kyle's trademark. If Kyle has any long term plans to one day turn Chiefs Planet into something more than simply an online community, he will have to pay a lawyer to account for the domain that you registered so that he can protect his trademark from competing sites who would love to cash in on the popularity of Chiefs Planet for their own gain.

I'm not even going to spell out the kind of trouble that an aggressive rival like JD Prez, who so obviously hates Chiefs Planet, could do to create a bunch of havoc for Kyle (out of fear that the Prez is reading thanks to links to his site that exist in this thread.) Everybody knows that guy's MO is to create havoc for havoc's sake, and you've given him a good in to do so.

Use your head next time.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Dr. Van Halen

Parody is protected speech thanks to the Supreme Court voting in favor of Luther Campbell of 2 Live Crew in one of the more amusing court cases in recent times.

As Al Franken puts it: "... even when the object of the satire doesn't get it."


(not that satire has anything to do with ChiefsPlanet2.com, but interesting none the less.)

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by Dr. Van Halen

I think Mr. John is being understandably defensive about this issue because he holds the copyright/trademark for Orange Mane.

To win the case in court against someone with a similar name that is competing you would have to be able to show damages (that their site caused you to lose money). I assume that you don't make a profit off of this site, so I'm not sure how well you would do in court. (Being able to show actual damages is part of the multi-prong test for copyright violation.)(Copyright Act of 1972)

However, there is nothing you could do to stop someone from setting up a site called Orange Mane2 or something similar if the site was created to make fun of your site. Parody is protected speech thanks to the Supreme Court voting in favor of Luther Campbell of 2 Live Crew in one of the more amusing court cases in recent times.

You are correct. However, if someone created a domain similar to mine, and used that domain to operate a website similar to mine, I would be forced to do something in order to protect my trademark whether I wanted to or not.

As a webmaster and owner of the OrangeMane trademark, it would be something that I wouldn't appreciate. This site is a hobby, but who knows what could happen in the future? Protecting the trademark just goes along with the territory.

Perhaps it's different for Kyle, and he doesn't care. That doesn't change the fact that at the very least, he should have been consulted and given the right of refusal out of mere courtesy. It's unbeleiveable to me that the guy has provided a free place to congregate for so many years, and isn't even given the courtesy of an email to consult with him on the use of his trademark... Anyone who bothers to do even the most rudimentary research on the domain can get his contact information. And anyone who follows through and does research on any NFLteamplanet.com domain can see that it's a trademark that Kyle would have a large interest in wanting to protect, as he and a partner have every NFLteamplanet.com domain registered.

But whatever... ChiefsPlanet is not my site, so I don't much care. I'm speaking up out of respect for Kyle because he hasn't had a voice in this, and I thought someone should offer up a voice that presented a conservative viewpoint on infringing his trademark without his permission.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Justin, for as bright a guy as you are, you're not a very bright guy sometimes... Of course this is about "what could be." That's the whole point.

Let me underline that it was incredibly stupid and rude of you to register a ChiefsPlanet domain without first checking with Kyle because of what could be. You have no idea of Kyle's plans for Chiefs Planet, nor any idea of the implications that go along with infringing on Kyle's trademark. If Kyle has any long term plans to one day turn Chiefs Planet into something more than simply an online community, he will have to pay a lawyer to account for the domain that you registered so that he can protect his trademark from competing sites who would love to cash in on the popularity of Chiefs Planet for their own gain.

I'm not even going to spell out the kind of trouble that an aggressive rival like JD Prez, who so obviously hates Chiefs Planet, could do to create a bunch of havoc for Kyle (out of fear that the Prez is reading thanks to links to his site that exist in this thread.) Everybody knows that guy's MO is to create havoc for havoc's sake, and you've given him a good in to do so.

Use your head next time.

Maybe I'm missing something about your scenario, if so, correct me, but...

1) JD doesn't own ChiefsPlanet2.com, I do.
2) If I had any evil intentions with the domain, I would put myself at risk by acting on those intentions. But I don't, so in that respect, I'm safe... That's not something you can know since you aren't in my heart or my head... but I'm comfortable with it. That's all that matters.
3) If at any time, Kyle wants the domain, I'll happily sign it over to him... Without having asked about that fact, you wouldn't understand my flexability...
4) There's nothing particularly rude about registering ChiefsPlanet2.com... If the intention were to hijack a protion of ChiefsPlanet regulars to start a rival site (ie, people who prefer the PHPBB format)... I would agree that using this domain would be both rude and risky. If that were to happen, I say again, I will/would remove the pointer and point it back to ChiefsPlanet.com. Until then, there is nothing wrong.
5) There might be something rude about registering OrangeMane2.com given your feelings on the issue. I won't do so, and would recommend no one else do so.

I am not trying to make this a pissing match, because I understand where you are coming from, and I sense that it is a sincere place. But I fundamentally disagree on the underlying assumptions that you are basing your opinions upon.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by jAZ

Maybe I'm missing something about your scenario, if so, correct me, but...

Indeed, you are missing plenty...

1) JD doesn't own ChiefsPlanet2.com, I do.

Again, I am not going to spell out the kind of havoc that a guy like JD could create for Kyle thanks to your thoughtlessness... You've opened a door. It's now Kyle's responsibility to close that door. I'll leave it at that.

2) If I had any evil intentions with the domain, I would put myself at risk by acting on those intentions. But I don't, so in that respect, I'm safe... That's not something you can know since you aren't in my heart or my head... but I'm comfortable with it. That's all that matters.

Your ignorance of the situation doesn't mean that Kyle is any less exposed or you are any less thoughtless in your actions.

3) If at any time, Kyle wants the domain, I'll happily sign it over to him... Without having asked about that fact, you wouldn't understand my flexability...

That's not the point. The point is that Kyle now has to account for another domain in order to protect his interests without first being consulted on whether this is something he wishes to do or not.

4) There's nothing particularly rude about registering ChiefsPlanet2.com... If the intention were to hijack a protion of ChiefsPlanet regulars to start a rival site (ie, people who prefer the PHPBB format)... I would agree that using this domain would be both rude and risky. If that were to happen, I say again, I will/would remove the pointer and point it back to ChiefsPlanet.com. Until then, there is nothing wrong.

Again, your ignorance of potential consequences doesn't change the situation. What you did was indeed rude, and most definitely risky. It's one thing for you to register AirAmerica.com and infringe their trademark, because the only person you expose is yourself. By registering a trademark owned by another individual, you expose him.

5) There might be something rude about registering OrangeMane2.com given your feelings on the issue. I won't do so, and would recommend no one else do so.

Do you know what Kyle's feelings are on the situation? No. That is the entire point.

Let me ask you something... This conversation has been going on for over 24 hours. Have you even so much as attempted to contact Kyle to let him know what is going on?

I am not trying to make this a pissing match, because I understand where you are coming from, and I sense that it is a sincere place. But I fundamentally disagree on the underlying assumptions that you are basing your opinions upon.

This isn't about pissing match. This is about showing common courtesy to a guy who has been very gracious over the years. Until you know his thoughts on the matter, it doesn't matter what you fundamentally disagree on. I don't know Kyle's thoughts on the matter, which is why I have advocated finding out before taking action. How you can sit there in ignorance of consequence and fundamentally disagree on showing Kyle some courtesy is beyond me.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Again, I am not going to spell out the kind of havoc that a guy like JD could create for Kyle thanks to your thoughtlessness... You've opened a door. It's now Kyle's responsibility to close that door. I'll leave it at that.

If you are going to make these kind of accusations, I'd be curious to know what exactly you are referring to... How did I "open a door" for JD to create havoc? This underlies everything you are talking about, and indeed I a missing the point.

The domain existed before I registered it, it will exist after I am through with it.

None of this takes into account the very real issue that Kyle can't possibly have any claim on "ChiefsPlanet" since "Chiefs" is a trademark of the Kansas City Chiefs.

But regardless of that technicality, I'd still be curious to understand your logic about "opening a door".

[Iowanian]

Hey everyone...

come check out my new registered site.

www.orangemange.com

[GoBo]

Originally Posted by jAZ

If you are going to make these kind of accusations, I'd be curious to know what exactly you are referring to... How did I "open a door" for JD to create havoc? This underlies everything you are talking about, and indeed I a missing the point.

The domain existed before I registered it, it will exist after I am through with it.

None of this takes into account the very real issue that Kyle can't possibly have any claim on "ChiefsPlanet" since "Chiefs" is a trademark of the Kansas City Chiefs.

But regardless of that technicality, I'd still be curious to understand your logic about "opening a door".

understand??

what makes ou think you can understand the utter brilliance of tj??

why, you must think you're some kind of friggin genious or something...

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by jAZ

If you are going to make these kind of accusations, I'd be curious to know what exactly you are referring to... How did I "open a door" for JD to create havoc? This underlies everything you are talking about, and indeed I a missing the point.

The domain existed before I registered it, it will exist after I am through with it.

None of this takes into account the very real issue that Kyle can't possibly have any claim on "ChiefsPlanet" since "Chiefs" is a trademark of the Kansas City Chiefs.

But regardless of that technicality, I'd still be curious to understand your logic about "opening a door".

Again, Justin... I'm not going to spell it out and give anyone any ideas. This thread has linked to one of ChiefsPlanet's principal rivals earlier in this thread, which means that it's likely that this particular rival, who is well known for creating havoc, could be lurking thanks to his traffic logs. I guarantee you this thread will be read by that particular rival at some point in time, as every webmaster that I know checks their traffic logs, and I'd just as soon not spell it out for him.

You didn't answer my question. In the last 24 hours, have you bothered with the courtesy to contact Kyle to let him know what is going on?

You are right about the problems that Kyle might have in the future due to the infringement of NFL team trademarks. This is something that I myself took account for when creating this site. My Communications and Law classes in college had to come in handy at some point in time...

If you don't understand the logic of opening a door for trouble, please defer to the logic of common courtesy.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Hey everyone...

come check out my new registered site.

www.orangemange.com

Bob Dole was supposed to register that and create a parody site (ie. NepaCheese.com) at one point in time...

Whatever happened to NepaCheese anyways? That was a pretty decent parody.

[Iowanian]

I'll work up something really special, and get it online really soon.

Jk....I'm no silly web designer.

I have no idea what happen to nepacheese.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Taco John

If you don't understand the logic of opening a door for trouble, please defer to the logic of common courtesy.

I saw this thread only moments before I posted on it. So the fact that this discussion has been on going for 24 hours (or 24 years) makes no difference. My version of common courtesy is my willingness to do whatever Kyle wishes with the domain.

Even if Kyle is merely offended at the existance of the domain, I'm happy to turn it over to him. I have no doubt that he WON'T be offended. I wouldn't have done registered the name if I felt otherwise. And I left myself the option of "undoing" my actions (domain transfer) to cover the slim chance that he might be.

If you aren't willing to share a clarification of your "open a door" comment publicly, I understand. I'd ask that you PM with your thoughts though, as I am more interested in understanding your point than I am in "winning" the debate about your point.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by jAZ

My version of common courtesy is my willingness to do whatever Kyle wishes with the domain.

Common courtesy isn't about what you will do to fix the problems you create by your thoughtless actions. It's about what you do to prevent them from happening in the first place. Are you willing to pay any lawyer costs that Kyle might have for his peace of mind to ensure that you didn't damage his claim to the trademark? Because unless you are willing to do that, you should shut up about what you are willing to do out of "common courtesy."

Losing Trade Mark Rights

and...

FAQ's regarding Loss of Trademark Rights

0.22 How can trademark rights be lost?
The common methods for losing trademark rights are: stopping use of the trademark, allowing the trademark to become generic, failing to prosecute infringements, improper licensing of the rights, improper assignment of the rights, and/or too significant of a change in quality or character of the goods or services.

[ENDelt260]

TJ... it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Duh.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by ENDelt260

TJ... it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Duh.

Heh...

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Common courtesy isn't about what you will do to fix the problems you create by your thoughtless actions. It's about what you do to prevent them from happening in the first place. Are you willing to pay any lawyer costs that Kyle might have for his peace of mind to ensure that you didn't damage his claim to the trademark? Because unless you are willing to do that, you should shut up about what you are willing to do out of "common courtesy."

Losing Trade Mark Rights

and...

Your opinion on the "thoughtless" of my actions is the least valuable part of this discussion. That's between Kyle and I. What business it is of yours is identical to zero. That you are offended, again, means zero.

As for the more interesting (and general) discussion of trademarks, let's not forget that we are talking about a claim that doesn't exist. Kyle won't be able to claim "ChiefsPlanet" as a trade name without going through the NFL first.

But if we are talking about something that COULD be trademarked (ie, OrangeMane), it wouldn't take an attorney for you to protect yourself. All someone (who had registered OrangeMane2.com) would have to do is assign the name to you and the issue is settled. The "infringment" is "prosecuted".

Not everything HAS to be a legal battle, when the two parties are in 100% agreement.

[ENDelt260]

Y'know... I find it odd that everyone wants to focus on the legal aspect of this whole chiefsplanet2.com issue. TJ is simply providing a reason that Kyle might not want chiefsplanet used in that way. The simple fact is...

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHY KYLE MIGHT NOT WANT IT USED THAT WAY

chiefsplanet.com is HIS. jAZ/Saul have made an ASSumption about Kyle's feelings about HIS property, and acted on said ASSumption. When someone inquires if they received permission, the response was, "Well, if he has a problem with it, he can tell me." There's a word for this people: it's RUDE. It's POLITE to ask a person's permission to do something, it's RUDE to just do it, and if they have a problem with it say, "Oh, I'm sorry. It won't happen again." What happened to people's manners? Is y'all's need to be contrary to TJ so great that it's clouding your judgment?

[ENDelt260]

Originally Posted by jAZ

Your opinion on the "thoughtless" of my actions is the least valuable part of this discussion.

Actually, it's the whole POINT of the discussion.

This sentence speaks volumes.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by jAZ

Your opinion on the "thoughtless" of my actions is the least valuable part of this discussion. That's between Kyle and I. What business it is of yours is identical to zero. That you are offended, again, means zero.

Originally Posted by Taco John

ChiefsPlanet is not my site, so I don't much care. I'm speaking up out of respect for Kyle because he hasn't had a voice in this, and I thought someone should offer up a voice that presented a conservative viewpoint on infringing his trademark without his permission.