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Old 05-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #401
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So when a private citizen takes a job in government they give up their constitutional rights?
He was talking about this administration's attempt to attack the 1st and 2nd amendments but use the 5th amendment to get away with it.....
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:46 PM   #402
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He was talking about this administration's attempt to attack the 1st and 2nd amendments but use the 5th amendment to get away with it.....
The admin isn't pleading the 5th,lois lerner,who was appointed to her position over tax exemptions in the irs in 2006,represents the irs.
Again,if there was actual evidence or truth to the administration being behind all this,we'd be talking impeachment.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:05 PM   #403
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This is why she took the 5th. It wasn't because of wrong doing.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/fo...m/usab5004.pdf
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:09 PM   #404
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The admin isn't pleading the 5th,lois lerner,who was appointed to her position over tax exemptions in the irs in 2006,represents the irs.
Again,if there was actual evidence or truth to the administration being behind all this,we'd be talking impeachment.
At the very least, members of IRS management pleading the 5th should lead to the naming of an independent investigator.

This idea that a routine internal review can suffice while management higher-ups are clinging to the 5th Amendment says everything that needs to be said.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:16 PM   #405
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At the very least, members of IRS management pleading the 5th should lead to the naming of an independent investigator.

This idea that a routine internal review can suffice while management higher-ups are clinging to the 5th Amendment says everything that needs to be said.
Can you imagine the laughter is you were to plead the 5th during a tax audit?
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:20 PM   #406
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Can you imagine the laughter is you were to plead the 5th during a tax audit?
Yeah. "I've been told that pleading the 5th doesn't necessarily mean that there was any wrongdoing or even appearance of wrongdoing. I just choose not to tell you certain things."
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #407
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At the very least, members of IRS management pleading the 5th should lead to the naming of an independent investigator.

This idea that a routine internal review can suffice while management higher-ups are clinging to the 5th Amendment says everything that needs to be said.
An IG is NOT a routine internal review, especial when comes from higher Agency. IGs are independent for any agency management and their power codified by US Code (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...6----000-.html).
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:11 PM   #408
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An IG is NOT a routine internal review, especial when comes from higher Agency. IGs are independent for any agency management and their power codified by US Code (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...6----000-.html).
So I guess because he comes from the Treasury department instead of the IRS, he's "independent" Of course, we're also told that the IRS is a non-partisan "independent" agency within Treasury, despite all appearances to the contrary.

Needless to say, the IG's report didn't lead to even a single termination or even reprimand. Now after all that, we've got IRS directors pleading the 5th Amendment when under Congressional scrutiny and you still want to pretend like an Administration IG really has the teeth to get to the bottom of this.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:22 PM   #409
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So I guess because he comes from the Treasury department instead of the IRS, he's "independent" Of course, we're also told that the IRS is a non-partisan "independent" agency within Treasury, despite all appearances to the contrary.

Needless to say, the IG's report didn't lead to even a single termination or even reprimand. Now after all that, we've got IRS directors pleading the 5th Amendment when under Congressional scrutiny and you still want to pretend like an Administration IG really has the teeth to get to the bottom of this.
IG are independent within all agencies and report to outside leadership. IG has more enough legal power and ability to stop something if there anything there. Maybe there isn't has much there as you want to it be.

I already gave reason why she to took 5th, there very good chance she will be sued in civil court and and testimony to the committee can used against her.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:27 PM   #410
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IG are independent within all agencies and report to outside leadership. IG has more enough legal power and ability to stop something if there anything there. Maybe there isn't has much there as you want to it be.

I already gave reason why she to took 5th, there very good chance she will be sued in civil court and and testimony to the committee can used against her.
Your first paragraph and your second are duking it out.

And define "outside leadership"
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #411
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So I guess because he comes from the Treasury department instead of the IRS, he's "independent" Of course, we're also told that the IRS is a non-partisan "independent" agency within Treasury, despite all appearances to the contrary.

Needless to say, the IG's report didn't lead to even a single termination or even reprimand. Now after all that, we've got IRS directors pleading the 5th Amendment when under Congressional scrutiny and you still want to pretend like an Administration IG really has the teeth to get to the bottom of this.
If you don't believe him,believe Darrel Issa,he stated the IG was independent as well. It also led to the firing of miller,and lois lerner is likely on the block next.
She would be able to plead the 5th regardless of who runs the investigation. You don't lose your rights based on who's doing the investigation.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #412
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If you don't believe him,believe Darrel Issa,he stated the IG was independent as well. It also led to the firing of miller,and lois lerner is likely on the block next.
She would be able to plead the 5th regardless of who runs the investigation. You don't lose your rights based on who's doing the investigation.
Nobody serves two masters. Regardless, it may just be that the IG role is designed to report, while administration decides how to discipline, but that scheme is clearly broken here.

In that model, we have an Administration that resorts to each and every possible fallback.

"Oh, it was just a few rogue agents"
"No? Oh, it was just this one nameless person we can't remember who issued that directive we can't show"
"No? Oh, I guess this temp director (who was leaving anyway) will 'resign'"
"No? Well you can talk to the office administrator, but she won't answer your questions."
"Still not happy? Well we had one of our inspector generals look at it. If he didn't answer these questions, you're SOL"

We need someone to root through this who doesn't otherwise work in this administration at all, and who has the power to bring criminal sanctions against this obstruction if need be.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:52 PM   #413
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Your first paragraph and your second are duking it out.

And define "outside leadership"
Outside leadership is the Council of Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency. It is statutorily established as an independent entity within the United States executive branch with reporting responsibilities to Congress. By law, the IG has legal power similar to those granted to federal prosecutors or appointed special investigator. In fact they have more power because they don't have to work though the legal system to obtain information when investigating federal operations and employees.

She most likely going to be sued in civil court by those "groups" that are b****ing about being targeted, that why she took the 5th. Also by law the IG report can not used in a court case, but the Congressional Record can.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:54 PM   #414
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Nobody serves two masters. Regardless, it may just be that the IG role is designed to report, while administration decides how to discipline, but that scheme is clearly broken here.

In that model, we have an Administration that resorts to each and every possible fallback.

"Oh, it was just a few rogue agents"
"No? Oh, it was just this one nameless person we can't remember who issued that directive we can't show"
"No? Oh, I guess this temp director (who was leaving anyway) will 'resign'"
"No? Well you can talk to the office administrator, but she won't answer your questions."
"Still not happy? Well we had one of our inspector generals look at it. If he didn't answer these questions, you're SOL"

We need someone to root through this who doesn't otherwise work in this administration at all, and who has the power to bring criminal sanctions against this obstruction if need be.
what part of independent don't you understand,the IG doesn't work for the administration.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:00 PM   #415
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what part of independent don't you understand,the IG doesn't work for the administration.
Can he fire people? Signs point to no.

Who is being terminated? If it was rogue agents, why are they all still employed? If they got orders, from where?

Not even a single reprimand. That's not really an IG's role either.

Nope, they're hoping to get away with a "Well, mistakes were made. We'll do better next time."

That's not going to fly so long as they can't even bring themselves to name who made them.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:02 PM   #416
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It is statutorily established as an independent entity within the United States executive branch
Couldn't that same thing be said of the IRS itself?
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:02 PM   #417
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what part of independent don't you understand,the IG doesn't work for the administration.
Let's be clear, each agency IG is part of the executive branch, the head is appointed by President of the United States or the Agency head with the consent of the Senate. By law they have can be remove by the President of Agency if there is problem, but the Office of the President must notify Congress and provide a reason. They are more powerful Police Internal Affairs
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #418
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Couldn't that same thing be said of the IRS itself?
What are asking
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:59 PM   #419
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Thanks for that. I really wondered what Harry "Mitt's Accountant" Reid thinks.
What about the Issa question. If he knew should he also be made to testify?
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:27 PM   #420
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IG are independent within all agencies and report to outside leadership. IG has more enough legal power and ability to stop something if there anything there. Maybe there isn't has much there as you want to it be.

I already gave reason why she to took 5th, there very good chance she will be sued in civil court and and testimony to the committee can used against her.
No doubt that is a reason. The wrongdoing here is criminal and actionable in civil court. She needs to be removed by Obama from her position asap.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:29 PM   #421
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Awesome watching the liberals around here explain why this is totally acceptable for her to take the 5th. Its not because anything wrong happened. Its just because the republicans are mean and on a witchhunt.

Its good she took the fifth. It pisses off Americans when govt officials act above the law.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #422
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Awesome watching the liberals around here explain why this is totally acceptable for her to take the 5th. Its not because anything wrong happened. Its just because the republicans are mean and on a witchhunt.

Its good she took the fifth. It pisses off Americans when govt officials act above the law.
What,she no longer has rights?
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:02 PM   #423
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What about the Issa question. If he knew should he also be made to testify?
He should be held to account for knowing an investigation was ongoing, specifically asking the IRS about the allegations and having them outright lie about them?

2012

Issa....Hey IRS, I hear there's an investigation of you guys going on about targeting certain taxpayers for their political beliefs, is that true?

IRS....No. That is not the case.

2013

Issa.... Hey, IRS. Last year I asked about this investigation that just finished up. You told me none of this was happening, but the investigation says otherwise.

IRS.... Come on, you knew about that investigation last year!

Translation: Herpy Derpy Derrrrrrp
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:06 PM   #424
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What,she no longer has rights?
COVER-UP
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:09 PM   #425
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He should be held to account for knowing an investigation was ongoing, specifically asking the IRS about the allegations and having them outright lie about them?

2012

Issa....Hey IRS, I hear there's an investigation of you guys going on about targeting certain taxpayers for their political beliefs, is that true?

IRS....No. That is not the case.

2013

Issa.... Hey, IRS. Last year I asked about this investigation that just finished up. You told me none of this was happening, but the investigation says otherwise.

IRS.... Come on, you knew about that investigation last year!

Translation: Herpy Derpy Derrrrrrp
you think that's the way it went down. Sure Issa knew nothing just because you paraphrase to your liking.
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