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Old 05-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #176
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Meanwhile we're riding a decade-long flat spot in temperature that none of the experts or their models predicted.
Wrong and wrong.

Quote:
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Leading models falling outside their 5% confidence margin this early in the game leaves a rational person with no choice but to doubt their accuracy.
Wrong and wrong.

What you need to know about climate sensitivity
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:06 AM   #177
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Wrong and wrong.



Wrong and wrong.

What you need to know about climate sensitivity
Neat. A Website!

I tend not to argue with websites. They're not listening.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #178
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Neat. A Website!

I tend not to argue with websites. They're not listening.
You need to be the one listening.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:00 PM   #179
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Look at everything they have done and still co2 goes up. It will keep going up also no way to stop it. The changes people talk about, electric cars, wind farms, won't dent it. Not even a little.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:03 AM   #180
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Take the head-in-the-sand approach of Cut and Beavis and multiply it by 100 to get the position of the Republicans. They are not defending any scientific ground. They are defending a religion.
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:11 AM   #181
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I read it. All it really says is all the techs discussed in geoengineering could have risks and need further study.

What i am saying W*gs is expecting the human population of the Earth to emit less co2, and then that lowers it in the atmosphere, and then temp goes down is a pipe dream. Just now way that countries like China, Indonesia, Brazil, India, and some other big emerging large nations ready to go that high tech. They still have people burning wood to cook with.

That article you linked was an opinion against geoengineering because its not the solution greenies want. They think its ****ing star trek already but its not.

The smart thing is to model what global warming will mean for the USA and develop a plan to combat it. Also much of the money currently spent wasted on solar should be given to explore the possibilities of geoengineering. At the very least as a plan B to thwart the dire consequences you predict if earth warms.

I like the idea of huge 17 mile long air sucking maching that sucks out the co2 and sequesters it deep underground. That is ****ing James Bond awesome. W*gs all you did is fire me up more. Geoengineering needs some billions baby lets build a co2 air sucking machine and then charge the world to turn it on. You want to offset some co2. Give us 100 million and your good.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:02 PM   #182
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:50 AM   #183
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“What good is it to save the planet if humanity suffers?”
– Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson, at the company’s annual shareholders’ meeting Wednesday.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ex....php?ref=fpblg
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:54 AM   #184
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– Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson, at the company’s annual shareholders’ meeting Wednesday.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ex....php?ref=fpblg
What a dick.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:22 AM   #185
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– Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson, at the company’s annual shareholders’ meeting Wednesday.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ex....php?ref=fpblg
"Humanity" in this case means "Me and my cronies and our rich shareholders."
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:55 AM   #186
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Here's an interesting new finding.

Quote:
Global warming caused by chlorofluorocarbons, not carbon dioxide, new study says.

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) are to blame for global warming since the 1970s and not carbon dioxide, according to new research from the University of Waterloo published in the International Journal of Modern Physics B this week.
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-05-global-...oxide.html#jCp
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:02 AM   #187
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Here's an interesting new finding.



Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-05-global-...oxide.html#jCp
CFCs have been regulated, and were more a cause of ozone holes in the atmosphere. CO2, Methane, Nitrates, and heavy phosphoric gases are the root causes of most of the global conditions we are facing. Ever since the NOAA convinced the US government and the EPA that CFCs were depleting ozone, and the representative parties took action, the large ozone holes have depreciated signifying a substantial change. CFCs are dangerous for the ozone layer, but not the cause of global warming.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:07 AM   #188
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Here's an interesting new finding.



Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-05-global-...oxide.html#jCp
Wow. I'll be interested to see where this goes.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:31 PM   #189
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Lu tried this line of argument a few years ago. Still not very convincing - more mathturbation than anything else.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Coul...l-warming.html
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:08 AM   #190
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Who said this?

Quote:
"We must demand that the liberal left keep their hands off of our wallets. Not one dime of the carbon fee should be used to make the government bigger. One hundred percent of the money must go to the public. Nor should any of this money be used for subsidizing research on specific government-selected industries. The government is not competent to choose the best technologies—let them all compete. There are existing government resources and departments for research, development and demonstration, which can assist early development of candidate technologies."
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:49 AM   #191
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Al Gore backlash: Why environmentalists are celebrating rising CO2 levels
Sunday, June 02, 2013
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...)

5,894
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(NaturalNews) Thank goodness carbon dioxide levels are finally rising ever so slightly in our atmosphere, bringing much-needed carbon dioxide to the plants and forests of the world which have been starving for CO2. The lack of CO2 in the atmosphere is one of the most devastating limiting factors for plant growth and reforestation of the planet, and at just 400ppm -- that's just 400 micrograms per kilogram -- carbon dioxide is so low that Earth's plant life can barely breathe.

Editor's note: I have added substantially to this story since it was first published in order to attempt to educate what appear to be a mass of brainwashed, mathematically illiterate commenters on Facebook who demonstrate a wholesale inability to process information with anything resembling rationality on this subject.

Let me clarify three things before we even get into the story:

#1 - NO, I do not support the coal and oil industry, and in fact I think they are terrible polluters of our planet for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with CO2. As it turns out, all the coal and oil being burned across our world right now only slightly impacts CO2 levels, especially when compared with CO2 emissions by ocean life. So my support of CO2 as an essential plant nutrient in no way is any kind of endorsement of the oil and coal industries. My long track record of activism against corporate monopolists is irrefutably solid.

#2 - YES, CO2 is an essential plant nutrient. Despite all the idiotic beliefs of people who have been brainwashed by Al Gore into believing scientific mythologies, higher CO2 levels support faster plant growth and the re-greening of our planet, period! Anyone who disagrees with this is flatly uninformed, brainwashed or just plain ignorant of plant biology (and that's a lot of people). Recent science is proving that rising CO2 levels are, in fact, expanding plant growth and reforestation around the world. Read Increase in Carbon Dioxide Levels "Greening" the Deserts at NatureWorldNews.com or read the press release from the original researchers out of Australia who documented this correlation. And everybody needs to read www.PlantsNeedCO2.org

#3 - The current level of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere is 400ppm. By comparison, Oxygen exists in the atmosphere at 210,000ppm. When you exhale, your own breath contains 40,000ppm of CO2, and if you know anything about emergency first aid, then you know that breathing this 40,000ppm of CO2 into another person's body (mouth-to-mouth resuscitation) is a lifesaving action. It's not uncommon for CO2 to reach levels of 3000ppm in homes, schools and offices. OSHA allows workers to work in environments with up to 5000ppm of CO2. (Because, again, oxygen is present at 210,000ppm, vastly out-weighing the CO2.)

So all this talk of carbon dioxide threatening the entire planet at just 400ppm -- less than one-half of 1/1000th of the air -- is pure nonsense. Total quack science fearmongering.

In fact, most of what we've all been told about CO2 over the pat few years is a complete lie. It's time to stop believing these lies and wake up to reality. Most importantly, stop defending the CO2 / global warming hoax. Yes, CO2 is rising, but it's mostly from non-human activity, and rising levels actually support forests and plants everywhere.

How did I "wake up" to this information? It's simple: I used to be a believer in the CO2 hoax until I really began to study plant physiology and aquaponics production. Only then did I discover that CO2 is a vital nutrient for plant growth and that levels of CO2 in the atmosphere were radically deficient for optimal reforestation and plant biology. My awakening to this in no way means I endorse coal or oil industries, both of which are dirty polluters of the planet. But I am no longer allowing myself to be conned by the likes of Al Gore who has successfully convinced far too many people that their own breath is a global pollutant that needs to be regulated and taxed.

The CO2 scam is nothing more than a global tax moneymaking scheme being pushed by people who hope to get rich off our collective guilt for a problem that's entirely fabricated and fictional.

My original story continues here:

Throughout the history of our planet, atmospheric CO2 was much, much higher, and it supported eras of lush rainforests, rapid plant growth and far greater biodiversity than what we see today. In fact, 525 million years ago, Earth's atmospheric CO2 levels were as high at 7,000 ppm -- and far from the planet "dying" as global warming hoax pushers try to claim, it was one of the most lush and biodiverse times in our planet's history.

As the following chart clearly shows, CO2 levels are at one of their lowest levels in the history of our planet:



Carbon dioxide is greening the planet

Global warming alarmists and hoaxers, of course, have warned that CO2 levels crossing the threshold of 400ppm will spell certain doom for the human race. What they don't mention is that rising CO2 levels actually set off a "global greening," complete with forests re-growing at an accelerated rate, gardens producing more food and arid regions seeing a restoration of green plants.

In fact, a study just published in Geophysical Research Letters has documented that a 14% increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere gave rise to a 5% - 10% increase in green foliage, with a total increase in plant "cover" of 11%. That study is entitled, CO2 fertilisation has increased maximum foliage cover across the globe's warm, arid environments.

That study refers to CO2 as a "fertilizer" that causes a "fertilization effect." As the study authors explain:

Our results confirm that the anticipated CO2 fertilization effect is occurring alongside ongoing anthropogenic perturbations to the carbon cycle and that the fertilisation effect is now a significant land surface process.

CO2, you see, isn't a "pollutant." It's a nutrient!

By the way, your body is 18% carbon and 65% oxygen. (I'm going to pre-empt some stupid Facebook trolls who will say, "Not true! Your body is 75% water!" by answering in advance that H2O is made of hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen has such a low atomic weight, however, that it doesn't contribute more than about 10% to your total body mass. Then again, trying to teach science to Facebook trolls is a lot like trying to teach pigs to write javascript.)

In total, you are 83% made of the same stuff as CO2, just in a different molecular arrangement. CO2 is, of course, constantly reformed and recycled throughout the planetary ecosystem. Ocean biological activity alone produces 90 billion tons of CO2 each year -- many multiples of the far smaller amount produced by human activity (about 6 billion tons). If CO2 alone caused global warming and global death, we'd all be dead by now. It turns out that CO2 actually helps fertilize the growth and restoration of plants and forests!

Ocean plants love carbon dioxide, too!

By the way, it's not just land plants that are starving for CO2. Marine plants also need more CO2, and most marine biology came into being in a time when CO2 levels were far higher than they are today.

The higher CO2 levels are in the atmosphere, the more CO2 gets absorbed into ocean water, making it available to help marine plants thrive. This CO2, importantly, is also used to build coral reefs.

Wait a second! Haven't we all been told that CO2 is destroying coral reefs? I used to think so, too, because I hadn't scrutinized the science closely enough. But if you really dig into this issue, it turns out that coral reefs are largely being destroyed by toxic chemical runoff from human activity, not from CO2.

If you love plants and forests and gardens, you gotta love CO2

The bottom line in all this is that if you love plant life on planet Earth, you've gotta love carbon dioxide. CO2 is the key nutrient that's needed to bolster the rapid growth of nearly all plants, and right now Earth's atmosphere is in a state of carbon dioxide deficiency.

That's why professional greenhouse owners actually pump CO2 into their greenhouses to increase plant production.

Rising CO2 levels are a huge benefit to plant life across the planet. Hare-brained plans to "sequester" CO2 will cause an artificial reduction in this crucial plant nutrient, resulting in the mass global die-off of plants and the thinning of forests. Carbon sequestration is, quite literally, plant starvation and an attack against Mother Nature.

So don't buy into the disinfo hawked by CO2 alarmists like Al Gore. They are pushing an utterly fictional story about how "CO2 will destroy the world" and end human civilization if we don't stop its rise. I welcome rising CO2 levels and being scientifically trained, I know that carbon dioxide only exists at less than 1/1000th of the atmosphere. In fact, it's currently at less than half of 1/1000th of the atmosphere. That's an extremely small amount of CO2 -- just 400ppm. And it's just barely enough to keep Earth's plants from dying en masse.

Conclusion:

• CO2 is an essential plant nutrient that accelerates the growth of plants, gardens and forests.

• CO2 is present in the atmosphere at just 400 ppm. By comparison, oxygen is present at 210,000 ppm. There is barely any CO2 in the atmosphere at all.

• Higher CO2 levels means better reforestation and "greening" of the planet. As CO2 levels rise, barren regions are able to "re-green" with trees that couldn't grow there before.

• CO2 is chronically deficient in the atmosphere today; many plants are "starving" for carbon dioxide.

• NO, I do not support the oil and gas industries. In fact, there is hardly any link between energy usage and the rise of CO2 in the atmosphere. The vast majority of CO2 emissions come from biology, not burning fossil fuels.


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040588_ca...#ixzz2V9nOC7Rt
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:01 AM   #192
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:09 PM   #193
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Wow how long could Pakistan survive if global warming gets worst?
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:14 PM   #194
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Ok so they said areas that used to have extreme weather events once every 20 yrs will now have them once every 4-6. I love prediction but ones like this never pan out.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:24 AM   #195
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Coral reefs are dying due to higher acidity and rising temperature of the seas. This is caused by higher volumes of CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

When carbon dioxide dissolves in this ocean, carbonic acid is formed. This leads to higher acidity, mainly near the surface, which has been proven to inhibit shell growth in marine animals and is suspected as a cause of reproductive disorders in some fish.
http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/...acidification/

Baja, let's put it this way, if this idiot Mike Adams read the side of the package of Miracle Grow he would discover that it's great for plants. Yay! Would he then dump the whole box on his rhododendron?

The key here is balance.

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Old 06-04-2013, 07:35 AM   #196
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In other words, once the phytoplankton are gone, so are we.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:37 AM   #197
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Everybody who refuses to believe in global climate change should be forced to keep a reef tank. A reef tank is an aquarium that holds a combination of fishes, corals, anemones, shrimp, snails, macroalgae and sometimes, even sponges. Nothing too huge. Thirty gallons. Actually, we'll go with 100 gallons - the bigger the tank, the easier to maintain your chemical balances. And that's the key to keeping sea creatures alive in a reef tank - balance.

You use synthetic sea salt to create the proper balance of salinity in a tank. If the salinity gets too high or too low from a narrow band of specific gravity from 1.025 to 1.028 bad things start happening. You can see that there's not much room to mess with.

Then there's temperature. Depending where you live, you'll need a heater or a chiller, or maybe both. The average temperature of the coral reefs of the world is about 82 degrees. So, you have to keep your tank at plus or minus no more than a few degrees on either side of that number. If you don't, bad things start to happen. Not much different from us, really.

Then, there's calcium. Not enough calcium and your corals start dying. Typical ocean surface levels of calcium are 420ppm. You need to keep your tank in a range of 380 to 450ppm. If not, bad things happen. There are various ways of doing this. You can use a calcium reactor or kalkwasser. You should also build your tank using live rock and aragonite sand, but that's another topic.

Then, there's one of the most critical issues of all: Alkalinity. There's a long, scientific explanation for how corals build their colonies, but simply put, the level of bicarbonate available to them is crucial to their survival. The easiest way to measure this is alkalinity. Too high, bad things happen. Too low, bad things happen.

This goes hand in hand with pH. Keep it between 7.8 and 8.3 or (once again) bad things happen.

Then, there are other important issues to deal with like phosphates (caused by too many nutrients in the water), nitrates, nitrites, magnesium, iodine, ammonia, etc. If any of these get out of whack, bad things happen.

And when I say bad things what do I mean? Well, too many phosphates and you can get various algae blooms that grow over your corals and kill them all. Oddly enough, most corals harbor sun loving algae which in turn feed them. These algae need the light to live, and they have lived this way, in this symbiotic relationship with corals, for 500 million years.

Most algae love phosphate. Corals don't. Too much ammonia? Dead fish. Change in salinity? Dead shrimp and sponges. Change in pretty much anything? Dead anemones. Not enough calcium? Dead corals. PH too high? Dead everything. Too low? Dead everything.

Now imagine that life in the seas is the foundation of all life on Earth. Pretend that all life on Earth still depends on life in the seas. Then, pretend we are all inhabitants of a giant reef tank.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 06-04-2013 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #198
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We have 7 billion fish in our tank. What's the capacity?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:49 AM   #199
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We have 7 billion fish in our tank. What's the capacity?
Well, most people advocate for one inch of fish per gallon of tank water. So you do the math.

Since we haven't even identified all the fish in the sea yet, I'm guessing that count is low by few hundred billion or so. The annual catch of herring equals about 307,000 tons per year, so...

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Old 06-04-2013, 11:58 AM   #200
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Take the head-in-the-sand approach of Cut and Beavis and multiply it by 100 to get the position of the Republicans. They are not defending any scientific ground. They are defending a religion.
Some would say that these scientist are the one with defending a religion.
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