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Old 05-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #501
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3 and outs under a decrepit remedial-high-school McCoy offense.

Another exercise. In 2011 44% of Tim's passing attempts came in the 4th quarter or OT. Can you find any QB in the league with anywhere near that kind of late game attempts ratio?

Just as a for instance, Luck threw a pretty proportional 26% of his passes in the 4th/OT.
Those kinds of stats depend totally on the game. If a QB is leading he's throwing less in the 4th quarter typically. If he's behind the entire game the passes will be more. And when they are happening against prevent defenses results will happen. I'm not sure but I don't think KC ran a prevent in that last game resulting in no miracle comeback. Could be wrong about that

Also we don't know how many of Tebows run plays were actually called a pass play in the huddle.. How many times did we see tebow look to pass and end up running. Not reading the field and progressions results in running. It's a passing play, broke down into a tebow improvising a run

It's easy for a tebow fan to blame McCoy for a 3 and out. What I saw were plays that tebow could've thrown the ball but he couldn't make the read. He instantly went into the run mode looking for a lane to run instead of standing in or out of the pocket and seeing the open man down the field. But that's McCoys fault.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 05-09-2013 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:13 AM   #502
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3 and outs under a decrepit remedial-high-school McCoy offense.

Another exercise. In 2011 44% of Tim's passing attempts came in the 4th quarter or OT. Can you find any QB in the league with anywhere near that kind of late game attempts ratio?

Just as a for instance, Luck threw a pretty proportional 26% of his passes in the 4th/OT.
Right. And limiting his pass attempts would have nothing to do with the fact that he completed sub 50% for the first three quarters.

(hint: this is where you blame the system. Or Mccoy. Or aliens.)
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:29 AM   #503
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"Belichick “hates” Tebow as a player. Silver cites unnamed “organizational sources” for the report, adding that the team “wouldn’t like the circus that comes with” having Tebow on the roster.

“You don’t want to put up with the circus,” an unnamed AFC head coach told Silver.

“He seems like a great guy to have on a team, and I’d be tempted to bring him in as our backup,” an NFC head coach told Silver. “But it’s just not worth dealing with all the stuff that comes with it.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...w-as-a-player/
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #504
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Can't Throw
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:05 PM   #505
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Yeah, but in that case he made a great read. Sooo, blows that theory out of the water.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:11 PM   #506
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Yeah, but in that case he made a great read. Sooo, blows that theory out of the water.
Guys lets be fair here, that pass was in the third quarter

Had it been the 4th that pass would of gone for a TD

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Old 05-09-2013, 12:20 PM   #507
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Can't Throw
Cue the 5 page "he was throwing it away" argument in 5. . .4 . . .3 . . .2 . . .
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:27 PM   #508
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Interesting. Lets eliminate the prevent defense effect:

4th quarter with the score +/- 7 points:
Plus or Minus 7? Why don't you just say "Parts of the 4th Quarter where McCoy still thinks his Mustang Big Power set might work"

If it was close or they were ahead or even tied, you sure as hell know McCoy wasn't spreading things out.

Just think through the logic of what McCoy was doing. Why would McCoy's approach work? RG3 and Cam's coaches are both on record saying they thought spreading things out in shotgun would help those college spread QBs adjust to the NFL. McCoy essentially did the exact opposite (with terrible results) and gets hailed as some kind of genius.

Ironically if not for Tim's strong 4Q bailout performances, Mike McCoy might also be looking for work at this point. His reputation was essentially rescued by the times when his gameplans were thrown in the garbage late in games.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #509
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Plus or Minus 7? Why don't you just say "Parts of the 4th Quarter where McCoy still thinks his Mustang Big Power set might work"

If it was close or they were ahead or even tied, you sure as hell know McCoy wasn't spreading things out.

Just think through the logic of what McCoy was doing. Why would McCoy's approach work? RG3 and Cam's coaches are both on record saying they thought spreading things out in shotgun would help those college spread QBs adjust to the NFL. McCoy essentially did the exact opposite (with terrible results) and gets hailed as some kind of genius.

Ironically if not for Tim's strong 4Q bailout performances, Mike McCoy might also be looking for work at this point. His reputation was essentially rescued by the times when his gameplans were thrown in the garbage late in games.
Ok. lets remove the close in the fourth stats from the fourth stats to see how he did against the prevent:

wow. His completion % jumped to a whopping 56%! That's amazing (ly bad).

Dude can't throw in the NFL.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:40 PM   #510
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Ironically if not for Tim's strong 4Q bailout performances, Mike McCoy might also be looking for work at this point. His reputation was essentially rescued by the times when his gameplans were thrown in the garbage late in games.
If not for the broncos defense holding teams to 13 and under in points, Tim tebow would be an afterthought. His reputation with tebow fans was essentially rescued by the times when it was something other than tebow as being the reasons a game was won.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #511
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Those kinds of stats depend totally on the game. If a QB is leading he's throwing less in the 4th quarter typically. If he's behind the entire game the passes will be more.
Drew Brees threw the ball a lot. And he was down a ton last year. Yet only 25% of his passes were 4Q or OT. He actually threw more passes in Q2 than the 4th.

I can't find a single example even resembling McCoy's 'plan'

How about Andy Dalton's "breakout" year in 2011. They were behind quite a bit. He had quite a few more throws when trailing that year than Tebow did.

But only 27% of his passes were in 4Q/OT.

And look at that 4Q stat line...

QBR Comp Att Pct Yards TD INT
54.6 77 153 50.3 947 3 8

Dude shouldda been lookin' for work.

Anyway, the main point remains. Mike McCoy was awful, and I'm excited he's the sparklers' problem now.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:54 PM   #512
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Ok. lets remove the close in the fourth stats from the fourth stats to see how he did against the prevent:

wow. His completion % jumped to a whopping 56%! That's amazing (ly bad).

Dude can't throw in the NFL.
Luck only managed 52% in 4Q last year. Brees did 57%. Eli...54%. Peyton, 60%.

Next?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #513
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Luck only managed 52% in 4Q last year. Brees did 57%. Eli...54%. Peyton, 60%.

Next?
It's hard to gauge when they all have different pass attempt numbers. If anything tebow should have a higher completion percentage if he had minimal attempts.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #514
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If anything tebow should have a higher completion percentage if he had minimal attempts.
Sorry, but especially for a young, inexperienced QB, that makes zero sense.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #515
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Luck only managed 52% in 4Q last year. Brees did 57%. Eli...54%. Peyton, 60%.

Next?
Drew brees's lowest completion percentage by quarter was the 4th at 57%. Timmy's highest was the fourth at 54%
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:11 PM   #516
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"Belichick “hates” Tebow as a player. Silver cites unnamed “organizational sources” for the report, adding that the team “wouldn’t like the circus that comes with” having Tebow on the roster.

“You don’t want to put up with the circus,” an unnamed AFC head coach told Silver.

“He seems like a great guy to have on a team, and I’d be tempted to bring him in as our backup,” an NFC head coach told Silver. “But it’s just not worth dealing with all the stuff that comes with it.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...w-as-a-player/
Interesting... was just discussing with Jay3 a page or so back whether or not the circus exists. These quotes would seem to rebut his assertion that the circus is a mere myth.

It would be worth it to an NFL team to pursue Tebow despite the hoopla that surrounds him... IF he could consistently put the football where it needs to be. But they're not interested because he can't... and for a "QB" who cannot consistently put the ball where it has to go, NFL does stand for "not for long". It's almost surprising that the Jest were willing to trade for him last year; and in retrospect, the deal wasn't worth it for them.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:13 PM   #517
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I'm curious to see how Teblows employment % compares with Luck, Brees, or either Manning. I'm guessing it lower.

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Old 05-09-2013, 01:14 PM   #518
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Sorry, but especially for a young, inexperienced QB, that makes zero sense.
If you throw 50 times rather than 15 in a game it's more of a chance to throw an int/incomplete. When your accuracy sucks the less attempts the better
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:17 PM   #519
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Drew brees's lowest completion percentage by quarter was the 4th at 57%. Timmy's highest was the fourth at 54%
And coincidentally (or not), the 4th quarter is when Timmy ran something most resembling the offense he came from (and succeeded in)

See, you're catching on.

I never said Timmy was Drew Brees. The point here is that 75% of Timmy's NFL stint was so mangled by a terrible OC that it's difficult to learn much from. You may be right. Tebow may not have it. But I don't think even RG3 could've looked good eating what McCoy cooked for Dinner most nights.

So at the end of the day, I just don't think the Tebow question is settled.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #520
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If you throw 50 times rather than 15 in a game it's more of a chance to throw an int/incomplete. When your accuracy sucks the less attempts the better
Oh, I think I get it. So what you're saying is that someone new to the league should throw the ball better the less he throws?

I guess all that crap analysts say about rhythm and experience and whatnot... garbage. Going 2 for 6 is worse than going 14 for 40.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #521
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Oh, I think I get it. So what you're saying is that someone new to the league should throw the ball better the less he throws?

I guess all that crap analysts say about rhythm and experience and whatnot... garbage. Going 2 for 6 is worse than going 14 for 40.
I'm saying someone who is about as accurate as a blind archer should throw less. Rythem and experience can only mask a players deficiency for so long. A duck is a duck and tebow is a horrible passer. Apparantly the entire NFL brass agrees with that.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:27 PM   #522
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Could Tebow be a good QB if given another chance?

I liken it to the owl and "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?" The world may never know...
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:28 PM   #523
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Interesting... was just discussing with Jay3 a page or so back whether or not the circus exists. These quotes would seem to rebut his assertion that the circus is a mere myth.
Irony...Silver's been one of the biggest Tebow Circus ringmasters (for pay) the whole time, now suddenly he wants to wash his hands of any involvement and wonder where it all comes from.

Try to find how many articles he wrote about whether Blaine Gabbert has NFL-level skilz.

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Old 05-09-2013, 01:31 PM   #524
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I'm saying someone who is about as accurate as a blind archer should throw less. Rythem and experience can only mask a players deficiency for so long. A duck is a duck and tebow is a horrible passer. Apparantly the entire NFL brass agrees with that.
Maybe your overall read is true, but your last line of logic definitely was not.

You or I could step onto an NFL field and give it a go and our chances (however slim) would improve with each opportunity. I had no idea until now that this concept was debatable.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #525
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Oh, I think I get it. So what you're saying is that someone new to the league should throw the ball better the less he throws?

I guess all that crap analysts say about rhythm and experience and whatnot... garbage. Going 2 for 6 is worse than going 14 for 40.
If you spend 75% of the game sucking the D up to the LOS to stop the run and lulling the DB'd to sleep from lack of action you should be able to complete more passes.
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