The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2013, 12:56 PM   #51
stoxman
Ring of Famer
 
stoxman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,174

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uplink View Post
maybe the broncos can trade T. Carter for something if the young CBs work out in camp.
As long as we get more than what we gave away Cassius for last year. That trade sucked!

I don't mind T. Carter that much and would like to see what he brings in camp this offseason. I was thinking he regressed as last season wore on but he started the season well.
stoxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 01:05 PM   #52
24champ
Bring back Kubiak!
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 19,944

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DomCasual
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
He certainly looks like a safety to me.
This draft class wasn't a good class for safeties, so I can see the Broncos picking Kayvon to move him to safety and provide some depth there.
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 01:06 PM   #53
Baba Booey
twitter: @dpieza
 
Baba Booey's Avatar
 
HURRY HURRY!

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North of the Wall
Posts: 2,033

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

This is the only pick I really don't care for, but then again I'm a cubicle monkey and Elway was damn near executive of the year in the NFL last season.
Baba Booey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 01:07 PM   #54
Atwater His Ass
Ring of Famer
 
Atwater His Ass's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,966

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Even if he works out, probably could have easily traded down, got an extra pick, and still got this guy.

Oh well.
Atwater His Ass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #55
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
This draft class wasn't a good class for safeties, so I can see the Broncos picking Kayvon to move him to safety and provide some depth there.
Are you serious?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #56
jerseyboiler120
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

I'm with the smaller group who do not see this guy as a safety. I've been reading what the experts say on this kid for 2 days now and they contradict each other; in some cases even contradict themselves. They can't decide if they don't like the kid because he isn't great in zone, and admit USF had him in zone a lot.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 02:33 PM   #57
jerseyboiler120
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

His speed and aggressiveness at the line scream man to man skills and possible great long term potential. If can can disrupt the route at the LOS he's already won over half the plays.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #58
R8R H8R
Ring of Famer
 
R8R H8R's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Exiled in So. Cal.
Posts: 2,958

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Virgil Green
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
What round was Harris drafted in again, anyone remember? How about Tony Carter? Both those guys are playing for the Broncos, Harris has been very effective. Neither one was drafted.

So, what does this tell you about scouting again? Oh yah, it's nothing more than an educated guess and even long time scouts are wrong on players. Sure, this may end up being a bad pick, but can't you say that about every pick?
Exactly. This is why I don't freak-out over perceived reaches with this regime, particularly on defensive picks(because of Fox/JDR).

I said this before, maybe on another thread, I can't remember, but worth repeating, and that is that Harris was not only a UDFA, he was so obscure that he wasn't even invited to the combine. However, not only does he make the team his rookie year(and no PS!), and not only firmly became a solid #3 CB and backup to Carter(?), but is also now a fan favorite, of sorts. In just two years!

Could Webster be a bust or disappointment, sure; but i am going to give this FO the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise.
R8R H8R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:05 AM   #59
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,132

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

I have watched this kid play, not just read scouting reports, and just like a few others in this draft, I am not sure the kid can come in and understand the NFL game right away. This is another RAW physically talented kid whose tape leaves you totally confused when you watch it. He is a project right now, and I would be scared to put him in coverage in the NFL at this point.

He lacks natural instincts, gives way too much seperation, lacks any real solid technique, and I am not sure if he does anything but play ST's for a few years at best. That is NOT who I want to draft in the late third round. However, he is a Bronco now, so officially add me to the hope this kid gets it , and sooner rather than later bandwagon
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:17 AM   #60
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,207

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
I have watched this kid play, not just read scouting reports, and just like a few others in this draft, I am not sure the kid can come in and understand the NFL game right away. This is another RAW physically talented kid whose tape leaves you totally confused when you watch it. He is a project right now, and I would be scared to put him in coverage in the NFL at this point.

He lacks natural instincts, gives way too much seperation, lacks any real solid technique, and I am not sure if he does anything but play ST's for a few years at best. That is NOT who I want to draft in the late third round. However, he is a Bronco now, so officially add me to the hope this kid gets it , and sooner rather than later bandwagon
I think that was the common theme for players we got this year (excluding Williams and Ball), physically gifted athletes who will need a lot of coaching to ever have a shot at becoming NFL starters.

Webster, Painter, King and Smith are all guys with excellent measurables but poor technique and limited grasp of the mental side of football. I am not too discouraged, we saw the same thing last year, with Wolfe being the only major rookie contributor. I guess Elway has a preference for drafting development prospects and guys recovering from injury over guys with limited athletic ability or character issues in the late rounds.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:28 AM   #61
rugbythug
Church Eyes.
 
rugbythug's Avatar
 
Salty Dog

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,069

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mr. Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
I have watched this kid play, not just read scouting reports, and just like a few others in this draft, I am not sure the kid can come in and understand the NFL game right away. This is another RAW physically talented kid whose tape leaves you totally confused when you watch it. He is a project right now, and I would be scared to put him in coverage in the NFL at this point.

He lacks natural instincts, gives way too much seperation, lacks any real solid technique, and I am not sure if he does anything but play ST's for a few years at best. That is NOT who I want to draft in the late third round. However, he is a Bronco now, so officially add me to the hope this kid gets it , and sooner rather than later bandwagon
I don't you have to assume the broncos put him on a white board?
rugbythug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:43 AM   #62
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,132

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
I think that was the common theme for players we got this year (excluding Williams and Ball), physically gifted athletes who will need a lot of coaching to ever have a shot at becoming NFL starters.

Webster, Painter, King and Smith are all guys with excellent measurables but poor technique and limited grasp of the mental side of football. I am not too discouraged, we saw the same thing last year, with Wolfe being the only major rookie contributor. I guess Elway has a preference for drafting development prospects and guys recovering from injury over guys with limited athletic ability or character issues in the late rounds.
Not King. King has tremendous skills as a route runner, and is one of the best WR's coming out in years in gaining seperation against quality CB's from the SEC. He is also really football savy. He might not be book smart, but he sets up CB's like a 5 year pro.

Smith has a quality skill set, and Painter was a late developer. However, they both are not far away. Webster OTOH, is far away. Painter will be a quality Swing OL who has the tools to be a starter in 2 years for sure. Smith, we need to seee how he recovers from injury. Webster has limited experience in NFL style coverages, raw technique for that, and does not read routes or react to what he sees well in the run game. He can tackle, but he just does not see things quickly in college and in the NFL its much faster.

That is why I am concerned with Webster. It's not just how much he must learn in order to play, its that he is already behind. He needs to work in all three mental phases of the game just to be a guy on the field. ST's is his only real outlet right away. Plus, he has real poor ball skills. I know they see SOMETHING in this kid, or there is no way they spend a third on him. This was certainly NOT a flier pick.

I just hope this was not a "we will coach him up" pick. That would be a horrible misuse of the resource there IMHO. I just do not see the ceiling on this Kid being a #1 CB worthy of gambling on in the third, because someone else might get him before you later. If he truly was BPA on their board, I am stunned. I just do not see the rationale of taking him in the third. I had him as a UDFA because of his steep learning curve and 2 years to get on the field as a CB. This is a deep CB class, and there were 6 other CB's with much better mentality, technique, and even comparable physical attributes available there in my book. Oh well, he's a Bronco Now!
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:51 AM   #63
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,282

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Not King. King has tremendous skills as a route runner, and is one of the best WR's coming out in years in gaining seperation against quality CB's from the SEC. He is also really football savy. He might not be book smart, but he sets up CB's like a 5 year pro.

Smith has a quality skill set, and Painter was a late developer. However, they both are not far away. Webster OTOH, is far away. Painter will be a quality Swing OL who has the tools to be a starter in 2 years for sure. Smith, we need to seee how he recovers from injury. Webster has limited experience in NFL style coverages, raw technique for that, and does not read routes or react to what he sees well in the run game. He can tackle, but he just does not see things quickly in college and in the NFL its much faster.

That is why I am concerned with Webster. It's not just how much he must learn in order to play, its that he is already behind. He needs to work in all three mental phases of the game just to be a guy on the field. ST's is his only real outlet right away. Plus, he has real poor ball skills. I know they see SOMETHING in this kid, or there is no way they spend a third on him. This was certainly NOT a flier pick.

I just hope this was not a "we will coach him up" pick. That would be a horrible misuse of the resource there IMHO. I just do not see the ceiling on this Kid being a #1 CB worthy of gambling on in the third, because someone else might get him before you later. If he truly was BPA on their board, I am stunned. I just do not see the rationale of taking him in the third. I had him as a UDFA because of his steep learning curve and 2 years to get on the field as a CB. This is a deep CB class, and there were 6 other CB's with much better mentality, technique, and even comparable physical attributes available there in my book. Oh well, he's a Bronco Now!
Did you get that from Bmore Manning?
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:53 AM   #64
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,268

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Not King. King has tremendous skills as a route runner, and is one of the best WR's coming out in years in gaining seperation against quality CB's from the SEC. He is also really football savy. He might not be book smart, but he sets up CB's like a 5 year pro.

Smith has a quality skill set, and Painter was a late developer. However, they both are not far away. Webster OTOH, is far away. Painter will be a quality Swing OL who has the tools to be a starter in 2 years for sure. Smith, we need to seee how he recovers from injury. Webster has limited experience in NFL style coverages, raw technique for that, and does not read routes or react to what he sees well in the run game. He can tackle, but he just does not see things quickly in college and in the NFL its much faster.

That is why I am concerned with Webster. It's not just how much he must learn in order to play, its that he is already behind. He needs to work in all three mental phases of the game just to be a guy on the field. ST's is his only real outlet right away. Plus, he has real poor ball skills. I know they see SOMETHING in this kid, or there is no way they spend a third on him. This was certainly NOT a flier pick.

I just hope this was not a "we will coach him up" pick. That would be a horrible misuse of the resource there IMHO. I just do not see the ceiling on this Kid being a #1 CB worthy of gambling on in the third, because someone else might get him before you later. If he truly was BPA on their board, I am stunned. I just do not see the rationale of taking him in the third. I had him as a UDFA because of his steep learning curve and 2 years to get on the field as a CB. This is a deep CB class, and there were 6 other CB's with much better mentality, technique, and even comparable physical attributes available there in my book. Oh well, he's a Bronco Now!
I think, as many others have already suggested, that maybe Elway and the FO view Webster as a safety and not so much as a CB. This would somewhat justify taking him in the 3rd. If Webster can come in and develop quickly as a safety while being a tackling machine on special teams ala Bruton then taking him in the 3rd is more understandable. But who knows? Perhaps they think he will replace Champ in a few years, when Champ is ready to move to safety?
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:58 AM   #65
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,282

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

I think they want to use him in a variety of ways. Move him around kinda like the do with Von. Bet this is a JDR pick all the way.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 09:02 AM   #66
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,132

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
Did you get that from Bmore Manning?
Ummm, NO. You know I will acknowledge when I simply agree with people, but that is my assessment all the way.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 09:09 AM   #67
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,282

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Ummm, NO. You know I will acknowledge when I simply agree with people, but that is my assessment all the way.
J/K Med. There was a long running razzing of Bmore on the draft thread where a bunch of us gave you credit for calling several picks much to the frustration of Bmore who claimed to be first. All in good fun.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 09:37 AM   #68
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,207

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Not King. King has tremendous skills as a route runner, and is one of the best WR's coming out in years in gaining seperation against quality CB's from the SEC. He is also really football savy. He might not be book smart, but he sets up CB's like a 5 year pro.

Smith has a quality skill set, and Painter was a late developer. However, they both are not far away. Webster OTOH, is far away. Painter will be a quality Swing OL who has the tools to be a starter in 2 years for sure. Smith, we need to seee how he recovers from injury. Webster has limited experience in NFL style coverages, raw technique for that, and does not read routes or react to what he sees well in the run game. He can tackle, but he just does not see things quickly in college and in the NFL its much faster.

That is why I am concerned with Webster. It's not just how much he must learn in order to play, its that he is already behind. He needs to work in all three mental phases of the game just to be a guy on the field. ST's is his only real outlet right away. Plus, he has real poor ball skills. I know they see SOMETHING in this kid, or there is no way they spend a third on him. This was certainly NOT a flier pick.

I just hope this was not a "we will coach him up" pick. That would be a horrible misuse of the resource there IMHO. I just do not see the ceiling on this Kid being a #1 CB worthy of gambling on in the third, because someone else might get him before you later. If he truly was BPA on their board, I am stunned. I just do not see the rationale of taking him in the third. I had him as a UDFA because of his steep learning curve and 2 years to get on the field as a CB. This is a deep CB class, and there were 6 other CB's with much better mentality, technique, and even comparable physical attributes available there in my book. Oh well, he's a Bronco Now!
King has speed to create separation and runs good routes, but he still suffers concentration drops, he runs without discipline after the catch and I haven't seen anything that suggests he can absorb a full NFL playbook, especially one with as many checks and audibles as the one we use. I think he needs a full red-shirt year to study like Demaryius Thomas did.

Smith is not far away as an athlete, but he needs to be a better hand fighter, right now he is very active but mostly flails pretty aimlessly and he needs to develop a counter move and to use better leverage when bulling. He is great on the outside with his speed and ability to drop his shoulder and turn the corner, he also has a solid rip to go inside, but when he starts outside and tries to counter in he gets stuck on arm blocks.

Painter is a late developer, he started 13 games at OT in his career all at RT. He will need to learn some technique although I think 1 red-shirt year would be sufficient for him, he also needs to pick up the language and checks for offensive linemen.

I agree on Webster, I was pretty shocked when they picked him because there were other CBs left who seemed much more ready for the pros and much less like longshots. I hope he pans out, I do like his measurables and I guess since he right now projects as a number 6 CB he will have some time to grow.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #69
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,132

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
King has speed to create separation and runs good routes, but he still suffers concentration drops, he runs without discipline after the catch and I haven't seen anything that suggests he can absorb a full NFL playbook, especially one with as many checks and audibles as the one we use. I think he needs a full red-shirt year to study like Demaryius Thomas did.

Smith is not far away as an athlete, but he needs to be a better hand fighter, right now he is very active but mostly flails pretty aimlessly and he needs to develop a counter move and to use better leverage when bulling. He is great on the outside with his speed and ability to drop his shoulder and turn the corner, he also has a solid rip to go inside, but when he starts outside and tries to counter in he gets stuck on arm blocks.

Painter is a late developer, he started 13 games at OT in his career all at RT. He will need to learn some technique although I think 1 red-shirt year would be sufficient for him, he also needs to pick up the language and checks for offensive linemen.

I agree on Webster, I was pretty shocked when they picked him because there were other CBs left who seemed much more ready for the pros and much less like longshots. I hope he pans out, I do like his measurables and I guess since he right now projects as a number 6 CB he will have some time to grow.
The thing about King digesting a playbook, is he ran routes in Mobile better than guys who ran the routes in their scheme! Seriously, he was making a really good group of CB's look average and getting tremendous seperation despite not running a bunch of those at Georgia!

I am obviously very high on the kid, but I really think his football intelligence is off the charts good. I am not sure how well he would play the slot with his frame right now, but I really think in the new Strength and conditioning system he is going to excel and seperate himself since he had the highest % of Body Fat at the combine, and still tore up the routes! Wait till they get him more flexible and stronger in the core. He will be sick!
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:01 AM   #70
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,207

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
The thing about King digesting a playbook, is he ran routes in Mobile better than guys who ran the routes in their scheme! Seriously, he was making a really good group of CB's look average and getting tremendous seperation despite not running a bunch of those at Georgia!

I am obviously very high on the kid, but I really think his football intelligence is off the charts good. I am not sure how well he would play the slot with his frame right now, but I really think in the new Strength and conditioning system he is going to excel and seperate himself since he had the highest % of Body Fat at the combine, and still tore up the routes! Wait till they get him more flexible and stronger in the core. He will be sick!
I really hope they don't stick him in the slot - I would not be completely surprised to see him play a lot of flanker as an insurance policy against Eric Decker leaving next offseason.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:08 AM   #71
R8R H8R
Ring of Famer
 
R8R H8R's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Exiled in So. Cal.
Posts: 2,958

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Virgil Green
Default

Gyld & Med,

Since both of you seem to agree he is a reach, maybe a huge reach, what would be your best guess on what Fox/JDR see in him that you, and others, don't?

I trust them on D so much, I just don't know what they could be thinking on this. Is it possible that they just felt he played in a system not conducive to his skills, and they think his skills translate much better to their system than to the one he was in?
R8R H8R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:09 AM   #72
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Didn't Webster go through three different coaches and their schemes? None of which flattered his man to man skill set that shows on tape?

If you are miscast in a scheme that doesn't flatter your skill set, your obviously going to look far worse than what your capable of..

I'm not sure Webster is a safety, but it's interesting that Elway brought Lynch with him, and we didn't draft a "conventional safety"..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:16 AM   #73
R8R H8R
Ring of Famer
 
R8R H8R's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Exiled in So. Cal.
Posts: 2,958

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Virgil Green
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
Didn't Webster go through three different coaches and their schemes? None of which flattered his man to man skill set that shows on tape?

If you are miscast in a scheme that doesn't flatter your skill set, your obviously going to look far worse than what your capable of..

I'm not sure Webster is a safety, but it's interesting that Elway brought Lynch with him, and we didn't draft a "conventional safety"..
I forgot about that, good point. Was this a Lynch pick? Does Lynch see this guy in the big nickel or in the box? Sure is curious.
R8R H8R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:31 AM   #74
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R8R H8R View Post
I forgot about that, good point. Was this a Lynch pick? Does Lynch see this guy in the big nickel or in the box? Sure is curious.
You would think everything that is done is with purpose! We will find out soon enough!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 11:14 AM   #75
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,935

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R8R H8R View Post
I forgot about that, good point. Was this a Lynch pick? Does Lynch see this guy in the big nickel or in the box? Sure is curious.
The way he loves to hit, I think he has safety written all over him.

If this pick gets Rahim the Dream the boot, I'll be doing my happy dance.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:10 PM.


Denver Broncos