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Old 04-22-2013, 06:37 PM   #76
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Yeah, you're right. Listening to McGahee's radio interview today...he sounds like he's ready to go. He is our best RB, hopefully he can stay healthy.

Looks like Knowshon might be the odd man out, if the Broncos pick a high RB. So I guess you keep Ball as your relatively low-cost insurance RB, and cut Knowshon. Sounds good to me. Ride or die with Willis, Hillman and an RB in the draft. I'm down.
The team would be stupid to cut Knowshon even if they draft a running back.

McGahee, Hillman, Moreno, Draft Pick is better than having Lance Ball on the team. You don't cut a guy who performed well when healthy (Moreno) just to save $1 million dollars off the cap. How about getting rid of a turd like Ball or Willis instead?
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:18 PM   #77
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The team would be stupid to cut Knowshon even if they draft a running back.

McGahee, Hillman, Moreno, Draft Pick is better than having Lance Ball on the team. You don't cut a guy who performed well when healthy (Moreno) just to save $1 million dollars off the cap. How about getting rid of a turd like Ball or Willis instead?
I agree.


We know we're going to roll with three active RBs and one inactive RB.

#1 will be the big starter back. This could be Moreno, McGahee, or a rookie.

#2 will be Ronnie Hillman as the change of pace.

#3 will be someone that plays special teams. Either Ball or a rookie.

Our 4th RB will be a gameday inactive.


Possible Scenarios:

1) If Moreno and McGahee both make the team, one of them will be inactive as the 4th RB. That player will only be insurance for the other. I can't imagine McGahee would be a good solider about being inactive, and while Moreno did it last season, I'm not sure he'll want to do it again. Especially after proving himself. It would also be one extremely expensive 4th RB.

2) We draft a rookie early, and cut both McGahee and Moreno, while keeping Lance Ball. Rookie takes the #1 RB slot.

3) We draft a rookie, and cut one of McGahee and Moreno along with Lance Ball. Rookie takes the #3 RB slot.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:20 PM   #78
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Also, Elway is really selling the hell out of this battle to start at MIKE between Irving and Johnson. I thought it was misdirection and that we'll target a MLB in round 1 or 2. Now, I'm starting to believe it because he keeps saying it.

That's going to drastically impact my mock if we don't take a MIKE in the 1st or 2nd round.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:23 PM   #79
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The team would be stupid to cut Knowshon even if they draft a running back.

McGahee, Hillman, Moreno, Draft Pick is better than having Lance Ball on the team. You don't cut a guy who performed well when healthy (Moreno) just to save $1 million dollars off the cap. How about getting rid of a turd like Ball or Willis instead?
I would rather have two rookies then Ball and Moreno. Get a good RB in the first 3 rounds and pick up a guy like DJ Harper, Zac Stacy, or Jordan Roberts as a UDFA or late round pick. We need SP teams players too. Hester should take over for Ball next year at SP teams which makes it easier to get rid of that turd.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
The team would be stupid to cut Knowshon even if they draft a running back.

McGahee, Hillman, Moreno, Draft Pick is better than having Lance Ball on the team. You don't cut a guy who performed well when healthy (Moreno) just to save $1 million dollars off the cap. How about getting rid of a turd like Ball or Willis instead?
If I were KM I would ask to try out for a ST position. He is not going to be a feature back and guys like Lance Ball will cost him a job because he can play ST's.

It is not like KM is ever going to go somewhere and be the feature back. He should start picking up skills that prolong his career, he has already made it past the avg lifetime of an RB, unless he is happy with the money he has made and ready to retire he better find ways to hang on rosters like bums like Ball do.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:30 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
Also, Elway is really selling the hell out of this battle to start at MIKE between Irving and Johnson. I thought it was misdirection and that we'll target a MLB in round 1 or 2. Now, I'm starting to believe it because he keeps saying it.

That's going to drastically impact my mock if we don't take a MIKE in the 1st or 2nd round.
same with me. i keep starting to post my mock and then i stop myself because it involves a Mike in the 2nd and i just keep hearing Elway's take on the MLB situation in my head. he said close to the same thing about DT last year in FA and was true to his word.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:33 PM   #82
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"We had that guy from Arizona, what was his last name? Arizona Matt. And Dysert."

Says he is glad they aren't in need in a QB of this draft, but are interested in looking hard at developing a guy.

Believes Osweiler would have been close to the top, if not the top QB in this class.
Elway could be pretending like he doesn't know Arizona Matt's last name.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:01 PM   #83
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The team would be stupid to cut Knowshon even if they draft a running back.

McGahee, Hillman, Moreno, Draft Pick is better than having Lance Ball on the team. You don't cut a guy who performed well when healthy (Moreno) just to save $1 million dollars off the cap. How about getting rid of a turd like Ball or Willis instead?
Quite right, quite right.

But how the hell do you keep an inactive $3M insurance RB? Jesus, that's a ton of scratch to waste. Didn't help us this year either. When we needed Knowshon the most he got hurt.

But when you're on a SB run it's ball in or ball out right? Let's ball the **** out.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:05 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
Also, Elway is really selling the hell out of this battle to start at MIKE between Irving and Johnson. I thought it was misdirection and that we'll target a MLB in round 1 or 2. Now, I'm starting to believe it because he keeps saying it.

That's going to drastically impact my mock if we don't take a MIKE in the 1st or 2nd round.
I'm telling you, the Broncos have Brooking in their back pocket. He's the ace-in-the-hole if Irving sucks. Draft picks are at a premium this year with the loss of Dumervil. Plus, they have Nickel LB Trevathan who'll definitely improve in year 2.

You can't just make Irving a permanent back-up without seeing if he can play or not. If he can't, get out the oil can, and grease up old man Brooking...Let's ride!!

Last edited by pricejj; 04-22-2013 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:08 PM   #85
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Elway could be pretending like he doesn't know Arizona Matt's last name.
Please... Elway thinks his own kid's name is Mack Elwes III. He has no idea what Arizona Matt's name is or even where he went to college. He got lucky that Matt offered him a sip of his Arizona iced tea when they met.

Last edited by bowtown; 04-22-2013 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:47 PM   #86
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Yeah, you're right. Listening to McGahee's radio interview today...he sounds like he's ready to go. He is our best RB, hopefully he can stay healthy.

But there is one problem...

Cutting Knowshon and drafting a 2nd round RB is revenue neutral. Is Le'veon Bell that much better of a player than Knowshon to spend #58 on? Tough decision. Knowshon is pretty good. Maybe they could wait a year to pick an RB?
Well simply put yes. Any back they draft in the first or second round they expect to be better than Moreno. They expect that back to start or play a close second to Willis.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #87
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I'm telling you, the Broncos have Brooking in their back pocket. He's the ace-in-the-hole if Irving sucks. Draft picks are at a premium this year with the loss of Dumervil. Plus, they have Nickel LB Trevathan who'll definitely improve in year 2.

You can't just make Irving a permanent back-up without seeing if he can play or not. If he can't, get out the oil can, and grease up old man Brooking...Let's ride!!
This^. Draft picks should be a premium every year. Every time Broncos whiff or waste a draft pick means atleast one place on this team didn't get better. I hate that!
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:54 PM   #88
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I'm telling you, the Broncos have Brooking in their back pocket. He's the ace-in-the-hole if Irving sucks. Draft picks are at a premium this year with the loss of Dumervil. Plus, they have Nickel LB Trevathan who'll definitely improve in year 2.

You can't just make Irving a permanent back-up without seeing if he can play or not. If he can't, get out the oil can, and grease up old man Brooking...Let's ride!!
i'm not sure what it is but something just doesn't sound right...

i do think they're willing to see what they have in Irving. Elway obviously puts a lot of stock in what this staff thinks about a player and they've proven they know how to use players in most cases.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:08 PM   #89
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i'm not sure what it is but something just doesn't sound right...
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #90
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Well simply put yes. Any back they draft in the first or second round they expect to be better than Moreno. They expect that back to start or play a close second to Willis.

But...it's not that simple.

This is how we use our top 4 RBs. And it's the reason Moreno was inactive most of all last year because he couldn't play special teams.

1) Starter
2) Hillman
3) Special Teams
4) Inactive


Now, if we draft a RB that doesn't play special teams, like Le'Veon Bell, he's either going to be starting or inactive. If he's starting, that means we've definitely released McGahee and most likely released Moreno as well. So, in that situation we take a bellcow back early and ride him, but Fox has always worked rookie RBs in slowly, usually as a #2, but Hillman is in that role. And in the middle of a Super Bowl run, that's risky, even if we take Lacy in Round 1, to put all our eggs in a rookie RB's basket.

So, what might make more sense is to draft a RB in the middle-late rounds that will play special teams and then we likely cut Lance Ball. Now, figuring out which bigger RBs are good at special teams is something I don't know. But, if you go this route, you're still riding McGahee, and maybe Moreno goes back to his inactive role for insurance (or else he's cut), but you're not depending on a rookie to carry you for your Super Bowl run. Instead you've upgraded your RB depth. This route makes the most sense to me. But it's also the route where you're not drafting Le'Veon Bell or Eddie Lacy, and you're not drafting slow RBs that can't help on special teams like Stepfan Taylor. So, the options are greatly diminished.

So, it's a tricky RB decision we're facing.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:12 PM   #91
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But...it's not that simple.

This is how we use our top 4 RBs. And it's the reason Moreno was inactive most of all last year because he couldn't play special teams.

1) Starter
2) Hillman
3) Special Teams
4) Inactive


Now, if we draft a RB that doesn't play special teams, like Le'Veon Bell, he's either going to be starting or inactive. If he's starting, that means we've definitely released McGahee and most likely released Moreno as well. So, in that situation we take a bellcow back early and ride him, but Fox has always worked rookie RBs in slowly, usually as a #2, but Hillman is in that role. And in the middle of a Super Bowl run, that's risky, even if we take Lacy in Round 1, to put all our eggs in a rookie RB's basket.

So, what might make more sense is to draft a RB in the middle-late rounds that will play special teams and then we likely cut Lance Ball. Now, figuring out which bigger RBs are good at special teams is something I don't know. But, if you go this route, you're still riding McGahee, and maybe Moreno goes back to his inactive role for insurance (or else he's cut), but you're not depending on a rookie to carry you for your Super Bowl run. Instead you've upgraded your RB depth. This route makes the most sense to me. But it's also the route where you're not drafting Le'Veon Bell or Eddie Lacy, and you're not drafting slow RBs that can't help on special teams like Stepfan Taylor. So, the options are greatly diminished.

So, it's a tricky RB decision we're facing.
Winona State RB Rayon Simmons I think he would allow us to keep McGahee, Hillman, Hester(sp teams), and Simmons inactive.

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Old 04-22-2013, 10:25 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
But...it's not that simple.

This is how we use our top 4 RBs. And it's the reason Moreno was inactive most of all last year because he couldn't play special teams.

1) Starter
2) Hillman
3) Special Teams
4) Inactive


Now, if we draft a RB that doesn't play special teams, like Le'Veon Bell, he's either going to be starting or inactive. If he's starting, that means we've definitely released McGahee and most likely released Moreno as well. So, in that situation we take a bellcow back early and ride him, but Fox has always worked rookie RBs in slowly, usually as a #2, but Hillman is in that role. And in the middle of a Super Bowl run, that's risky, even if we take Lacy in Round 1, to put all our eggs in a rookie RB's basket.

So, what might make more sense is to draft a RB in the middle-late rounds that will play special teams and then we likely cut Lance Ball. Now, figuring out which bigger RBs are good at special teams is something I don't know. But, if you go this route, you're still riding McGahee, and maybe Moreno goes back to his inactive role for insurance (or else he's cut), but you're not depending on a rookie to carry you for your Super Bowl run. Instead you've upgraded your RB depth. This route makes the most sense to me. But it's also the route where you're not drafting Le'Veon Bell or Eddie Lacy, and you're not drafting slow RBs that can't help on special teams like Stepfan Taylor. So, the options are greatly diminished.

So, it's a tricky RB decision we're facing.
What about Lattimore?

1) Starter
2) Hillman
3) Special Teams
4) Inactive (Lattimore)
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:46 PM   #93
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I listened to most of it. The 2 biggest things I got from this were that they clearly think it's absolutely crucial to hit on the 1st pick. Yeah it's nice if some of the other players are nice but he clearly expressed that it's mandatory to hit on the 1st pick.

The other thing Elway said was that they didn't feel this draft had a ton of impact players. They think it's decently deep at good players but they don't feel it has many players who are big time impact players.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:50 PM   #94
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I would prefer Datrone Jones @ 1, Big DT @ 2, Jonathan Franklin, UCLA rb in third, Reddick in the fourth.

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Old 04-22-2013, 11:14 PM   #95
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Last year Elway said "we prefer to trade down". This year he says, "It's fluid", when talking about a trade up. I bet you once Carradine or Moore goes off the board, Elway's trigger finger gets real itchy. That's all I'm saying.

Word is both Falcons, and '49ers want to trade up now. Pass-rusher is the most premium position other than QB. You connect the dots.
Falcons want a CB the niners want Vaccaro or Cyprien
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:22 PM   #96
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Falcons want a CB the niners want Vaccaro or Cyprien
this
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:37 PM   #97
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Also, Elway is really selling the hell out of this battle to start at MIKE between Irving and Johnson. I thought it was misdirection and that we'll target a MLB in round 1 or 2. Now, I'm starting to believe it because he keeps saying it.
That's going to drastically impact my mock if we don't take a MIKE in the 1st or 2nd round.
You mean like last year before the draft when he kept saying that defensive tackle wasn't as big of a need as everyone thought it was, and then drafted one with his first pick? Yeah, I'm not buying it either MUG.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:50 PM   #98
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So, it's a tricky RB decision we're facing.
Terrell Davis, Detron Smith, Mike Anderson, etc. could all play special teams. Lance Ball even. The only prereq is: you gotta be sturdy.

Fox likes to take high blue-chip RB's. And you'd think they would be looking for more of an impact RB who could help out immediately. Seems like everything goes back to Le'veon Bell. If he's gone, then they wait for Rayon Simmons in a late round.

As to who is cut, who knows...almost not worth speculating at this point. More interested in adding good players now, and letting the chips fall where they may. Logic says Lance Ball would be cut.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:51 PM   #99
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You mean like last year before the draft when he kept saying that defensive tackle wasn't as big of a need as everyone thought it was, and then drafted one with his first pick? Yeah, I'm not buying it either MUG.
Plus, Elway's massive interest in Te'o at the combine...
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:39 AM   #100
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Cyprien is also intriguing. He's a 4 year starter at safety. SS that can cover, bring the wood, and is a vocal and emotional leader. He's another guy that could come in and start from day 1 and be that 10 year starter that Elway was talking about.
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