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Old 04-21-2013, 06:48 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
there were many reasons why he was fired. that said, playing Carter on Jones was a epic coaching **** up. yet had he jammed him or at least slowed him down the TD doesn't likely happen there.
i've never seen a CB give a free release and not get back into the WR like that.
Yeah, Carter didn't know what to do in that situation, which begs the question why was he playing LCB in a playoff game when one of the best LCB's to ever play was on the team? Somebody f'd that up, and it wasn't Tony Carter. He shouldn't have been playing LCB in a playoff game when Champ Bailey is on the team.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:05 PM   #52
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I like Moore's game and he made a lot of strides last year.


Lets be honest game was on the line in OT how many of us were truly surprised Manning threw an interception that ended the game?
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:17 PM   #53
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there were many reasons why he was fired. that said, playing Carter on Jones was a epic coaching **** up. yet had he jammed him or at least slowed him down the TD doesn't likely happen there.
i've never seen a CB give a free release and not get back into the WR like that.
Yeah, Carter is clueless.

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Was Milus the scapegoat for a poorly designed D scheme by JDR? I don't know, but it was a poorly designed D scheme IMO. Von Miller was dropping back into coverage way too much (not his forte) instead of rushing Flacco. And where did Baltimore attack? The left side of the D where Von was dropping to some thing they called "coverage". Completely different from what Denver did when they beat up on Baltimore in the reg season.

And it sure didn't work, but they kept with it the entire game, never tried to switch the D to stop Baltimore's attack. IMO, that's on JDR and Fox, not Ron Milus.
It was a major mistake having Ayers in at DT during that series too. Wolfe should have been in. Ayers spun himself out of the entire play, leaving the whole middle of the field wide open. If there is ANY situation for Wolfe to be in, that was it.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:21 PM   #54
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Moore is going into his 3rd yr and he should make a big leap this yr. I think this year he starts to get some picks and more plays on the ball.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:28 PM   #55
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http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...get-head-start


Pretty standard offseason fluff, but I enjoyed the read. I'm optimistic that Rahim continues to improve. I was pleasantly surprised by the changes from year one to year two, and I hope he continues that and makes it a trend in year three. Sounds like he's got the drive to put in the effort off the field.

My biggest criticisms of him remain: he's not a form tackler and too often envisions himself as some sort of human projectile (similar concern for Quinton Carter). I still think getting a young safety in the draft would be nice, but not so much to replace Moore, as much as to increase the competition at Safety in general and perhaps push Adams to the bench if we can develop someone.
that was a very good article.

Quote:
Cornerback Tony Carter, who was covering Jacoby Jones, was supposed to either jam the Ravens receiver at the line or continue to cover him downfield, and did neither. Middle safety Jim Leonhard bit on an underneath route.
Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2RAe5EkWL


Yet Moore is the only one blamed.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:39 PM   #56
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that was a very good article.

Yet Moore is the only one blamed.
Yeah. It's easy to see why Champ is excited to see Rahim play this year. Replacing Moore would be idiotic, he's the Broncos best Safety and by the sounds of that article could become a Defensive leader in time.

If anybody were to be replaced, it would be SS Mike Adams, and unless they spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a Safety (which I don't see happening), Adams will remain a starter.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:28 AM   #57
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What a bunch of drama "never screwed up" queens we have going around here. Like somebody said, if we where destined for the SB, we would have won in OT. The game didn't end there (uhmm... PM threw a stupid across the body INT in our territory when we were driving, Champ got toast, Bob Ayers made a stupid move that took him out of the play on the pivotal Moore gaffe, the refs didn't help, etc). It took a total team effort to lose that game.

Damn, people seem to forget we where 2 Holiday return TD's from getting slapped in our back yard. And before the "well... that is not fair because who is to say we wouldn't have scored in those 2 drives", this is the NFL... not the N if L. Plus, we weren't exactly moving the ball against Balt effectively to begin with.

Moore made huge strides in his second year. He will only get better. I would be more interested in upgrading Adam's spot. Hopefully Carter comes back strong and takes that spot. Yeah.. lets go throw a high pick on a position that previously invested a high pick only 2 years into his career.

Those picks should go to upgrading positions that actually need upgrading... you know like R/LDE, DT or MLB.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:44 AM   #58
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This isn't a mere mistake. It prolly cost us a SB....considering we played the Ravens tougher than anyone else. And I didn't say he should tell the media to STFU....just that he shouldn't discuss it further given the shame involved.

No one wants to hear an explanation. It's basic end of game football. You always keep a cushion between yourself and the receiver. There is nothing to explain. No one wants to hear it. Just work hard and keep to yourself.
He.

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A.

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Apparently you're wrong about "nobody."
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:42 AM   #59
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i kept telling you all Carter ****ed up on that play. you don't give a WR a free release off the line and then let him get 7 yards beyond you.
They are still wrong, even though some idiot in the media wants to try and make it so. I have diagrammed this play here many times, and Carter was playing the sideline and underneath, and dumbass had over the top coverage.

It was Tampa 2 and the CB plays the flat and trail in that play. Period. End of discussion.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:47 AM   #60
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Yeah, Carter is clueless.



It was a major mistake having Ayers in at DT during that series too. Wolfe should have been in. Ayers spun himself out of the entire play, leaving the whole middle of the field wide open. If there is ANY situation for Wolfe to be in, that was it.
Who the hell wrote this piece of trash?

Ayers was in a pass rush game and he is allowed to spin to try and get to the QB. That is an all out pass rush play there. Get a freaking clue, but his whole damn premise is so STUPID I guess he had to make some crap up so Rahim looked better.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:53 AM   #61
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Waht would have impressed me, is not going to work out physically. It would have been getting the game film and watching all the crap he missed all game long. There was a lot more than that one play, and I'll detail it later if need be.

The kids problems are not physical, never have been. It's upstairs and he has a horrible mentality to play safety. He screws up mentally, and never corrects it. If he can do that, he might be able to play this game eventually. Right now, he is the epitomy of a replaceable safety on the field. He has no playmaking ability whatsoever.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:28 AM   #62
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Waht would have impressed me, is not going to work out physically. It would have been getting the game film and watching all the crap he missed all game long. There was a lot more than that one play, and I'll detail it later if need be.

The kids problems are not physical, never have been. It's upstairs and he has a horrible mentality to play safety. He screws up mentally, and never corrects it. If he can do that, he might be able to play this game eventually. Right now, he is the epitomy of a replaceable safety on the field. He has no playmaking ability whatsoever.
Boom!!!! This!!
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:36 AM   #63
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I was a big Moore supporter all last year, but I'm tired of the excuses and his little impact on the game. I would much rather get a safety early in the draft. Ideally, I want Eric Reid, but I would take Cyprien, DJ, or Phillip Thomas in the second or third.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:42 AM   #64
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I'm all about Swearinger
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #65
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I'm all about drafting a safety high in this draft.

Cyprien
Swearinger
Reid

I just wish people would quit hating on Rahim Moore for 1 play. I would be all good with it if we had someone beat him out in camp. But people act like he isn't allowed to be human. The whole bronco fan base is taking one play and acting like it was the sole reason we lost that playoff game.

I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone that:

Champ got burned for 2 TDs
Tony Carter got burned on that same play.
Manning threw a game ending interception
Ayers messed up on that same play
Prater missed a relatively easy field goal
The Refs missed an obvious pass interference call that resulted in a pick 6.
John Fox played conservative football.

So can we stop being so harsh on one play by one player!? If we're just going to be that unforgiving we should just get rid of the rest of the players that made mistakes that game.

I was so ready to call Rahim Moore a bust after his first season. But he came back and played so well for the majority of his second season. He rarely missed a tackle and though he wasn't a big time play maker, he played soundly. I for one appreciate that he took responsibility and cares. More than can be said about a lot of players in the NFL.

TLDR: I forgive Rahim Moore and you should too. However I expect improvement from him this season and you should too.
Said the preacher to the masses.................

Well said .............
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:54 AM   #66
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Guys, Swearinger and Cyprien are not Free Safeties..
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:45 AM   #67
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Yes. Replace a FS with two guys who are SS in the NFL. Lol. Good call.
Some guy on profootballtalk wrote an article comparing and contrasting Cyprien to Vaccaro.. He basically called Cyprien a FS centerfielder.. Which I do not agree with, I think he lacks ball skills and is a little stiff in the hips. And Vaccaro is either a SS or Cover 2 safety which I'm sure we'd all agree..

If we want a FS, we really need to look to Phillip Thomas..

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...aro-vs-cyprien
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:54 AM   #68
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Yeah, I don't see Cyprien having the elite speed and athleticism necessary to close in single high coverage as a CF type in the NFL. I don't think he lacks ball skills. RE: Vaccaro, he is a pretty good prospect, but I don't think he will outperform other guys in this class to warrant being selected where he could go -- which is Top 15. How high is Thomas expected to go now? Would be worth a third rounder for sure, but looks to be a Top 75 guy most places.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:07 AM   #69
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Yeah, I don't see Cyprien having the elite speed and athleticism necessary to close in single high coverage as a CF type in the NFL. I don't think he lacks ball skills. RE: Vaccaro, he is a pretty good prospect, but I don't think he will outperform other guys in this class to warrant being selected where he could go -- which is Top 15. How high is Thomas expected to go now? Would be worth a third rounder for sure, but looks to be a Top 75 guy most places.
We would have to take him in the second. If he fell to the third and we landed him, that would be amazing!

Idk Bro, I think Cyprien lacks elite FS ball skills..
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #70
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Idk Bro, I think Cyprien lacks elite FS ball skills..
Yeah, because he isn't a free safety. He is going to be a tremendous SS in the NFL. Just because he is going to be best at SS doesn't mean he has bad ball skills. I think his ball skills are fine, athleticism, speed and range are questionable. I think he takes good angles, pursues well and attacks the ball in the air very well. His instincts make up for his athleticism, but am in agreement he isn't a FS. I've been saying that for months.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #71
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Yeah, because he isn't a free safety. He is going to be a tremendous SS in the NFL. Just because he is going to be best at SS doesn't mean he has bad ball skills. I think his ball skills are fine, athleticism, speed and range are questionable. I think he takes good angles, pursues well and attacks the ball in the air very well. His instincts make up for his athleticism, but am in agreement he isn't a FS. I've been saying that for months.
Yeah we are on the same page, just don't get how this guy sees Cyprien as a Center Fielder FS..

Let's just take Cyprien and Thomas and call it a day.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:01 PM   #72
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Yeah we are on the same page, just don't get how this guy sees Cyprien as a Center Fielder FS..

Let's just take Cyprien and Thomas and call it a day.
Well, Denver moved down a few times last year and picked up two more fourth rounders. That was it. I am not expecting us to get more than that in a move down unless someone REALLY wants somebody. Used one of those to move up and get Hillman in the third.

I'd like to see Denver do something similar and have:

2
2
3
4
4
4
5
7

And IDGAF about the #7 in that position. Use it to move up with a mid-round pick and get a legit guy. We need a few starters. A seventh rounder probably isn't going to make our team.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:59 PM   #73
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They are still wrong, even though some idiot in the media wants to try and make it so. I have diagrammed this play here many times, and Carter was playing the sideline and underneath, and dumbass had over the top coverage.

It was Tampa 2 and the CB plays the flat and trail in that play. Period. End of discussion.
BS, Carter ****ed that play up. that was on him for letting the WR go.
you don't ever do that in a coverage when the team is going to pass with less than a certain amount of time left. if anything you play off coverage and let them get 10-15 yards but not behind you.

you never allow a WR that much cushion in a end game scenario.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:24 PM   #74
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Rahim needs to go. End of story. Yah, everybody screws up but he did the equivalent of ****ting on the conference room table during the Monday staff meeting. That's not a mistake, that is a career killing **** up.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:33 PM   #75
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Swearinger > Moore
You talk as if he would be taken to replace Moore, I suspect he would be to play alongside Moore if they did.

Moore still has the faith of the team in his abilities. They aren't looking to replace him, but they need another safety regardless.
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